Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-06-2012, 06:40 PM   #46
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 9,158
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
Well you'd be wrong, and furthermore, the camera hasn't even been released yet, so declaring it "failed" is premature to say the least.
Bad design only becomes a failure after the release date?

QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
I told you specifically in my reply. So you're not even reading my reply. Which is why I hesitated to in the first place. Basically this is yet another "I hate the K-01" vanity thread.
Maybe you haven't seen my reply to your post yet?

FYI, I don't hate the K-01. I'm just frustrated about an opportunity that I feel hasn't been maximised.

QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
I really shouldn't have to tell you the problem with critiquing ergonomics when the camera isn't even shipping yet.
Have you read this reply ?

02-06-2012, 06:45 PM   #47
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,203
I have it on very good authority (I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you) that the chimney is functional.

As a chimney.

To vent heat from the sensor.

Its form follows its function.







02-06-2012, 06:47 PM   #48
Pentaxian
konraDarnok's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Photos: Albums
Posts: 962
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Bad design only becomes a failure after the release date?
You're the one equating mere popularity with "good design." Not me. And again, critiquing ergonomics for something you haven't held is foolish; I don't care how you rationalize it. This is not an SLR, so it will not be used like an SLR.
02-06-2012, 06:50 PM   #49
Senior Member




Join Date: Jan 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 173
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Trust me, I really looked and looked and looked at the K-01 time and again, waiting for the moment where it clicks and an inner voice says "It is beautiful". But it doesn't happen.
Maybe (hopefully) it'll happen when you actually hold it.

02-06-2012, 06:54 PM   #50
Senior Member




Join Date: Jan 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 173
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Bad design only becomes a failure after the release date?
Bad design is subjective, as this and many threads prove, there are plenty who like the design.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
One can only hope that the K-01 won't cost Pentax too dearly
That is calling it a failure, and its based only on your taste in camera design. It is way premature to call it failure, it hasn't even been released yet.
02-06-2012, 07:01 PM   #51
Pentaxian
redrockcoulee's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 2,118
As cars have been brought up in the late 70s and early 80s wedge shaped cars and those with sharp edges were very popular and some models that were much more rounded were considered old fashioned or even ugly. Those former cars certainly look more dated then the more organic old fashioned ones. In other words the way to see if a design does stand the test of time is to have it time tested, The original bug was not a classic until it became one , or the 2002 for that matter either. Perhaps in ten years all cameras will look similar to the K01 or perhaps the total opposite of it, time has not told that yet.
02-06-2012, 07:07 PM - 1 Like   #52
Pentaxian
LFLee's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Western MA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,263
I, for one, would like to see the original K-01 design before Marc do his "magic" on it. Can someone find out the pre-Marc K-01 design?
From his interview, he said he was brought in to design the look at a later stage (he work on the project for only a year). That will be an interesting comparison.

... and I bet the Pentax team original design is as good as the camera they design in the past.
02-06-2012, 07:30 PM - 1 Like   #53
Pentaxian
panoguy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,290
As a product designer and consultant to way too many big industrial design firms (for their software, not designs... I'm an Alias guru), I find this quite hilarious.

OP quotes Dieter Rams' principles like they are the final word ("Ooh, Jony Ive worships and copies this guy, and everyone knows Apple determines what is good/bad design - I read it in Fast Company!"), but it was design education, experience as an industrial designer, and personal opinion that brought Rams to those ideas. If you only have an opinion, regurgitating Rams' principles will not substitute for the other two and make your opinion "educated" or somehow correct.

We should all have a personal opinion of a design, but even Mr. Ive won't presume to judge (pass/fail?) another designer's work on principles he didn't come up with... heck, I'll bet Jony is on pre-order for the all white version.

Dieter probably has a Leica and no opinion at all, but I won't judge him...

02-06-2012, 07:59 PM   #54
Junior Member




Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 25
IMO the premise of this thread is flawed because it assumes Rams 'rules' are what needs to be satisfied for good design to come about. Yes- Rams is hugely influential- but to think design in general can be judged a success or not in accordance with his values strikes me as odd.
All acedemic I guess, it will or will not sell independant of what is discussed on message boards.
02-06-2012, 08:15 PM   #55
Veteran Member
Docrwm's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Somewhere in the Southern US
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 11,275
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
...............If you honestly look at Rams' principles and the design aesthetic of Braun, the one camera that comes closest to meeting them is the NEX 7.
And, oddly enough, it rather looks like it's a Braun design.
02-06-2012, 08:16 PM   #56
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 9,158
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
("Ooh, Jony Ive worships and copies this guy, and everyone knows Apple determines what is good/bad design - I read it in Fast Company!")
Is that your position?

It surely isn't mine.
02-06-2012, 08:26 PM   #57
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 15,751
The beginning of this thread makes something that is very subjective sound oh, so objective, but it still comes down to opinion. As to whether or not this camera is easy to use remains to be seen. The hardest part has nothing to do with the design and has everything to do with the fact that composition will be done on the LCD and no through a viewfinder.

Just a personal opinion on these "throw back cameras." I didn't begin photography until the 90s and I have no feeling of nostalgia for the designs that Fuji and Olympus are bringing back. Why so many people are knocked out by them is beyond me, but I guess that is what is so subjective about taste. The question really is how easy it is to take good photos with a given camera and how much does it cost. I think the K-01 will pass from both of those standards.
02-06-2012, 08:42 PM   #58
Forum Member




Join Date: May 2008
Location: BC
Posts: 93
I love threads like this. They teach me latin phrases, argument logic, and aesthetic design principles. I'm encouraged to know that this sort of thing is valuable here.

Class A: Thanks for informing me of Deiter Ram's design rules! I hadn't expected that turn on this forum - and thank-you also for such a level head in your response posts. I think it is commendable when fire retardant is used generously.

I agree that Marc Newson and Deiter Ram share some similar elements in their design philosophy (though - I'm only basing this on the relatively limited exposure I've had to either of their work) - and therefore it is reasonable to use some of the guidelines he has devised to gauge similar products. It seems that the (though this is a horribly overused cliche and will probably earn me negative points from the actual artists who know better than I) 'form follows function' approach (in fact, no. I'm retooling this a bit. Form follows function is now: 'McLaren F1')...



It seems that the "McLaren F1" approach to design that pentax has seemingly espoused in past products (think the iconic 67 - Marc actually nods to this in his video interview regarding the K-01 at launch) - is allowed a bit of exaggeration from time to time:



I'm not sure that the K-01 follows this to a fault - but I'm not sure that in this case it is entirely necessary. I think there may yet be a way to inform my extra-pyramidal faculties the best way to hold, and operate a K-01 - but it may require me to loosen my grip on the practiced functional ergonomic of past pentax products (but I agree it's just as likely the K-01 will give me Parkinson's disease). I'll just have to wait and see if it makes me shake.

Much of pentax' prior product base have been "happy in the hand" - where ergonomic was the chief operant. Other things are happy in my hand - so this maybe this shouldn't be my primary focus...

In any case - I'll be taking the camera that 'works the best' rather than the camera that 'looks' the best, unless there are cases where the best 'looking' camera, 'works' the best. Too many quotes? Try not to imagine me using my fingers to illustrate that sentence out loud. I hate those people.



Quick addendum - it should be noted that the McLaren F1 is a three seater. Getting in and out is a pain in the arse. A pain I'd happily tolerate. Plus, I'd wager that it looks as good today, as it did the 20 (?) years ago it was introduced.

Last edited by spade111; 02-06-2012 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Addendum
02-06-2012, 08:51 PM   #59
Veteran Member
riff's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,408
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Have you jumped off a ten story building without a parachute yet? Maybe it isn't as bad as people say?
So based on these five points that you grabbed from Dieter Rams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is aesthetic
Is as little design as possible
Is honest
Is long-lasting
Is thorough down to the last detail

What product lives up to these asinine rules?
It is my contention that most consumers ignore these rules when shopping.
02-06-2012, 09:26 PM   #60
Pentaxian
Class A's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 9,158
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
What product lives up to these asinine rules?
What about the Junghans Mega 1000?


It's predecessor, the Mega 1, had a convex bulge to the left.

It served no purpose (the antenna was in the wrist strap). I'd say it violates purist design rules, but I can see that some may find it visually pleasing. (I have more trouble imagining someone who finds the snorkel visually appealing. "Quirky", "interesting", "different", "fun", maybe, but "visually appealing", no).

The successor, the "Mega Futura", goes back to the bulge again:
.

AFAIC, there is no question which of the three designs is truly timeless.

QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
It is my contention that most consumers ignore these rules when shopping.
Quite possible. But then a good design would have done as well (saving the pay cheque for Newson), right?

Last edited by Class A; 02-06-2012 at 09:36 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, cameras, design, k-01, k01, marc, mirrorless, on/off, pentax, pentax k-01, products, rams
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-01 Officially Announced - *START HERE* + Interview with Marc Newson Adam Pentax News and Rumors 48 05-11-2012 05:29 PM
Pentax Ricoh Imaging Americas introduces pentax k-01 designed by Marc Newson Adam Homepage & Official Pentax News 0 02-02-2012 05:10 AM
FA Limited lens series won the 2010 Good Design Long Life Design Award Patriot Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 26 11-29-2010 06:16 AM
What happens if SDM fails? Hannican Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 8 08-19-2010 04:13 AM
Hitlers SDM Fails knumbnutz Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 25 04-11-2010 08:17 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:47 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top