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02-09-2012, 08:05 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Exactly. I imagine there will be 3-4 lenses in this category. a 15 , 21 and 28 (or thereabouts) and probably a near pancake zoom for the rest their is the wide range of other k mount lenses
If I were calling the shots, I'd leave the already amazingly compact 21 or 70 for later (the same for the 40, but that is water under the bridge). I'd concentrate on lenses that don't or can't have a pancake version already in the DSLR world. For example, a fast, compact prime in the 16-18mm FOV, as some of the other mirrorless lines offer (14mm in MFT) would give this body an extra advantage over the DSLRs. A small, sharp 28mm (remember the M28?) and you have a killer "normal" lens. A fast pancake 24mm, and you have some of the charm of the XA, to which others have made comparisons. What they gained with shortening the 40 seems minimal, but it was probably relatively easy to design.


Last edited by GeneV; 02-09-2012 at 08:12 AM.
02-09-2012, 08:21 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
If I were calling the shots, I'd leave the already amazingly compact 21 or 70 for later (the same for the 40, but that is water under the bridge). I'd concentrate on lenses that don't or can't have a pancake version already in the DSLR world. For example, a fast, compact prime in the 16-18mm FOV, as some of the other mirrorless lines offer (14mm in MFT) would give this body an extra advantage over the DSLRs. A small, sharp 28mm (remember the M28?) and you have a killer "normal" lens. A fast pancake 24mm, and you have some of the charm of the XA, to which others have made comparisons. What they gained with shortening the 40 seems minimal, but it was probably relatively easy to design.
if the retro focus one pictured everywhere is a 24 it will be an excellent companion to the 40
02-09-2012, 10:24 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
...the lenses won't work on older bodies. We might end up with the same situation as with using DA lenses on film bodies--some work, some don't, Pentax makes no representations of compatibility.
Difference is that deep-recess XS lenses not only won't work on (d)SLR bodies, but could foul or damage the mirrors on such bodies. So a safely-designed XS body must have an XC (extra-crippled) mount to accept XS lenses that WILL NOT MOUNT on PK bodies. Otherwise... somebody please tell me if there's a precedent for this: Has any camera maker ever produced a lens system that would physically damage their previous cameras with the same mount?
02-09-2012, 10:39 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Has any camera maker ever produced a lens system that would physically damage their previous cameras with the same mount?
Yes, I remember seeing it but can't for the life of me remember who made it (Mamiya?)... the camera came with a plastic mount 'tester' - if you could mount the lens in question in the plastic 'mount', it was OK, if it bottomed out you couldn't use it.

02-09-2012, 10:46 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Difference is that deep-recess XS lenses not only won't work on (d)SLR bodies, but could foul or damage the mirrors on such bodies. So a safely-designed XS body must have an XC (extra-crippled) mount to accept XS lenses that WILL NOT MOUNT on PK bodies. Otherwise... somebody please tell me if there's a precedent for this: Has any camera maker ever produced a lens system that would physically damage their previous cameras with the same mount?
I got hammered yesterday for saying Pentax would be irresponsible to allow this. The reference was Nikon 9mm - 11mm lenses and Voigtlander extreme wides for Nikon F mount. I'll try to dig up the post to link it [EDIT:] Here.
("I guess it was just pretty damned irresponsible by Voigtländer to create the 12mm f5.6 and the 15mm f4.5 for Nikon f-mount then. Not to mention Nikon with their own 6mm, 7.5mm, 8mm and 10mm fisheye lenses..")
I still think it would be irresponsible to market a lens that could damage a mirror box - unless they alter the flange somehow (one "ear" is longer and the K-01 mount is accordingly altered) to physically prevent mounting the lens on other bodies.
02-09-2012, 11:46 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well going alone is another problem. Just another mico-K-mount has no future either. So to me there are a few options that really could work.
  1. Join Panansonic/Olympus with the micro 4/3th using the same mount, just with a Sony sensor of high quality.
  2. Create a unique small evil camera as small as Pentax Auto 110 was in past with real small lenses and a small sensor.
  3. Make an entree level EVIL that in future wil make entry level DSLR like K-x obsolete. New micro-K-mount that with an adapter will take all current lenses but also new lenses. Give it APS-c sensor like K-x/K-r.
  4. Make a high-end EVIL wit a FullFrame sensor with the current K-mount so all lenses will fitt. No nonsens about thinner camera, since it is to use with big lenses. (maybe even Trans-Lucent).
  5. Leave this new market between P&S and DSLR to others and make no money out of it.

To me number 1 and 4 make the most sence.

Number 5, doing nothing in a time that entry leven DSLR will be going out of the market due to all the EVIL's is not smart, and in this same time P&S is losing ground to iPhone and all others smartphone's. In P&S the only real future is bridge camera and rough camera's like W90.
To quote myself. It was about the rumors of NC-1 that lead to become the Q (I think).

Well K-01 hasn't got a micro K-mount, but got K-mount with lenses that wil go into the mount. A smart solution.
02-09-2012, 11:48 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I got hammered yesterday for saying Pentax would be irresponsible to allow this. The reference was Nikon 9mm - 11mm lenses and Voigtlander extreme wides for Nikon F mount. I'll try to dig up the post to link it [EDIT:] Here.
("I guess it was just pretty damned irresponsible by Voigtländer to create the 12mm f5.6 and the 15mm f4.5 for Nikon f-mount then. Not to mention Nikon with their own 6mm, 7.5mm, 8mm and 10mm fisheye lenses..")
I still think it would be irresponsible to market a lens that could damage a mirror box - unless they alter the flange somehow (one "ear" is longer and the K-01 mount is accordingly altered) to physically prevent mounting the lens on other bodies.
I wonder if it could be done electronically as well. Is there a signal that the lens could send that would cause the shutter not to fire? That would not help old film bodies, though.
02-09-2012, 11:49 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
if the retro focus one pictured everywhere is a 24 it will be an excellent companion to the 40
If I wanted a compact K01 kit to carry about while traveling, a retro-focus 24 would be the lens.

02-09-2012, 12:05 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
If I wanted a compact K01 kit to carry about while traveling, a retro-focus 24 would be the lens.
it would be sweet wide enough for most scenes but not too wide for the others. make a great street shooter that way as well
i'd just have to be sure not to stick that lens on my DSLR in error (see signature)
02-09-2012, 12:09 PM   #25
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How does Canon do it with the EF-S lenses?
02-09-2012, 12:29 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
it would be sweet wide enough for most scenes but not too wide for the others. make a great street shooter that way as well
The DA21 would be a good fit for the K01 as a street machine. I'm still guessing this unnamed XS lens is wider, maybe even fisheye. Hmmmmm.
02-09-2012, 12:32 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by crewl1 Quote
The DA21 would be a good fit for the K01 as a street machine. I'm still guessing this unnamed XS lens is wider, maybe even fisheye. Hmmmmm.
I would like a 28mm lens, since I already own 21mm.
02-09-2012, 12:35 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
i'd just have to be sure not to stick that lens on my DSLR in error (see signature)

"Nothing is idiot proof to a determined idiot!"
Idiot-proofing is a well-known engineering principle. Idiot proof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you design two brackets to be bolted together, good practice requires that you stagger the bolt pattern so that it cannot be assembled incorrectly, ie. idiot-proofing. However :

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. (Douglas Adams)

If you make something idiot proof, someone will just make a better idiot.

Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
02-09-2012, 12:35 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I got hammered yesterday for saying Pentax would be irresponsible to allow this. The reference was Nikon 9mm - 11mm lenses and Voigtlander extreme wides for Nikon F mount. I'll try to dig up the post to link it [EDIT:] Here.
("I guess it was just pretty damned irresponsible by Voigtländer to create the 12mm f5.6 and the 15mm f4.5 for Nikon f-mount then. Not to mention Nikon with their own 6mm, 7.5mm, 8mm and 10mm fisheye lenses..")
I still think it would be irresponsible to market a lens that could damage a mirror box - unless they alter the flange somehow (one "ear" is longer and the K-01 mount is accordingly altered) to physically prevent mounting the lens on other bodies.
I didn't read the posts that "hammered" you, but I hope they weren't too abusive. Nonetheless, I do wonder how far manufacturers should go to protect people from themselves. Unhappily, courts often think about these things differently, so I imagine advertising, packaging and labeling will carry warnings, as should the lenses themselves, but there will be some incautious naive who will most likely test the system, at some stage.

Come to think of it, you could probably say the same about the Rear Converter Ls as well, as they clearly have a protruding element, and shouldn't be fitted to lenses that don't have a recessed rear element, but I don't know if anyone's damaged something in attempting to do so. However, the odds of someone trying this are probably less than trying to fit an XS lens to a DSLR, but both are fairly remote, in my view.
02-09-2012, 12:35 PM   #30
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I only have two issues with the K-01 so far -

1.) why did they have to change the orientation of the 4 way functions again? It is different on my K-5, which doesnt match my K-x - does it use the K-r configuration?
I think the engineers are having fun at our expense

2.) old K-mount primes are going to become even more expensive as a new wave of videographers starts to come into the PK fold

I can live with these
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