What speed SD card for K-01 video recording in full HD?

raider · 02-10-2012, 05:17 PM

Hi, what speed should we get for the SD card if we wanted to record in full HD?

Do we need a class 10 (30MB/sec) card or a 45MB/sec card?

Sandisk has both of these available but obviously the 45mb/sec card is a lot more expensive. If it is not a recommendation to go for this for k-01 video, then i would like to save some cash by going class 10.

Opinions please?

Thanks

RonHendriks1966 · 02-10-2012, 05:51 PM

Probably even older class 6 cards can keep up with video recording. Video isn't so demanding on writespeed. I do wonder how fast writing to the card is when the buffer gets cleared.

jogiba · 02-10-2012, 06:04 PM

I use a 32GB Sandisk Ultra Class 4 15mb/sec SDHC card in my Panasonic TM700 3MOS camcorder in 1080p60 28mb/sec mode without any problems. I have 30mb/sec and 45mb/sec Sandisk cards and may use the 45mb/sec card in my pre-ordered K-01 since it's an extra card.

imtheguy · 02-10-2012, 06:25 PM

I am not a video wizard but simple arithmetic says full HD at 30fps is 1920*1080*30=60MB/sec (as in byte not bit).
As this must be compressed to save space you introduce the compression factor (which you have from the designated playback stream of 28mb/sec (bits is the usual way of indicating video stream speed). Therefore your 28mb stream requires only a 3,5 mB/sec minimum Write Speed for the SD card. Although I know the full HD at 25fps on the k-5 works on highest quality (lowest compression) with of my Class 10 or Class 6 brand name cards. Maximum speed, such as the 30MB and 45MB Sandisk, does not matter as its the minimum Write Speed that matters most for video in the Class10 or Class6 designation as either one should have no problem. Even a good quality Class 4.

If I missed a decimal or something somebody please correct my statement.

RonHendriks1966 · 02-10-2012, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by imtheguy

I am not a video wizard but simple arithmetic says full HD at 30fps is 1920*1080*30=60MB/sec (as in byte not bit).
As this must be compressed to save space you introduce the compression factor (which you have from the designated playback stream of 28mb/sec (bits is the usual way of indicating video stream speed). Therefore your 28mb stream requires only a 3,5 mB/sec minimum Write Speed for the SD card. Although I know the full HD at 25fps on the k-5 works on highest quality (lowest compression) with of my Class 10 or Class 6 brand name cards. Maximum speed, such as the 30MB and 45MB Sandisk, does not matter as its the minimum Write Speed that matters most for video in the Class10 or Class6 designation as either one should have no problem. Even a good quality Class 4.

If I missed a decimal or something somebody please correct my statement.

Well it al comes with the quality of the image and the compression. I've seen on my K-5 up 72 Mb/s wich means up to 9 MB/s writespeed. My guess is that K-01 needs much less then that.

raider · 02-10-2012, 06:33 PM

So a humber class 10 card is fine then.....I will hit the buy button today...

imtheguy · 02-10-2012, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well it al comes with the quality of the image and the compression. I've seen on my K-5 up 72 Mb/s wich means up to 9 MB/s writespeed. My guess is that K-01 needs much less then that.

Knowing almost nothing about the K-01 and video internals I believe you. But I thought the new camera does 30fps full HD. Other than higher compression, why so you expect it to be LESS than the k-5 instead of more?

imtheguy · 02-10-2012, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by raider

So a humber class 10 card is fine then.....I will hit the buy button today...

If you are looking for recommendations, its hard to go wrong with the Sandisk but Transcend 16GB/Class 10 can be had for a lot less. I use both but everybody has fav.

raider · 02-10-2012, 06:40 PM

Thanks imtheguy. I have a couple of 8GB class 10 sandisk cards and they worked flawlessly for me all these years. So I reckon I will continue to support the brand

RonHendriks1966 · 02-10-2012, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by imtheguy

Knowing almost nothing about the K-01 and video internals I believe you. But I thought the new camera does 30fps full HD. Other than higher compression, why so you expect it to be LESS than the k-5 instead of more?

Different way of storage. I guess that means less space invasive and thus allowing to make longer videoclips at hi resolution without using the max of 4 GB for a single clip.

johnmflores · 02-10-2012, 06:41 PM

My GH2 records at 23Mbps, a little higher than the K-01. I use Class 10 cards and have never had a problem. Maybe a Class 6 will work; I haven't tried...

RonHendriks1966 · 02-10-2012, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

My GH2 records at 23Mbps, a little higher than the K-01. I use Class 10 cards and have never had a problem. Maybe a Class 6 will work; I haven't tried...

Wow! Would that mean that we can record FullHD clips up to 25 minutes? With K-5 we can only run up to 5'22". And still have the same image quality?

imtheguy · 02-10-2012, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Different way of storage. I guess that means less space invasive and thus allowing to make longer videoclips at hi resolution without using the max of 4 GB for a single clip.

By different way, are you expecting a different format/codec? Just wondering.

johnmflores · 02-10-2012, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Wow! Would that mean that we can record FullHD clips up to 25 minutes? With K-5 we can only run up to 5'22". And still have the same image quality?

The AVCHD/H.264 format that the K-01 uses is very space efficient but requires significant processing power to compress before storing on the SD card. Pentax likely had to upgrade their image processing engine to handle AVCHD, which I suspect led to Prime M. IIRC I can get 60 minutes on a 16Gb card.

On the flipside, it's also processor-intensive to edit. New editors like Final Cut Pro X can handle the files natively, but you'll also need a swift computer that can handle decoding the stream and overlaying color correction and effects on the fly.

If you've got an older computer or software that can't handle AVCHD natively, you can still edit the files but you'll need to transcode it into a more edit-friendly format like Apple ProRES or Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC). These codecs are built for editing - they've got very little (if any) interframe compression for the software of CPU to worry about. So they are easy to work with but take up tons of hard drive space. So the process in this situation is AVCHD -> transcoded to ProRES or AIC -> edits -> render to H.264 for web or elsewhere.

One more note - the AVCHD spec calls for a rats nest of folder on the SD card. On the GH2, mine are stored in the Private/AVCHD/BDMV/Stream folder. File organization is nothing like handing JPGs or .PEFs or .DNGs, so read the manual before you go moving stuff around.

There's a new learning curve for video, but it's fun!

Hope this helps!

imtheguy · 02-10-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

One more note - the AVCHD spec calls for a rats nest of folder on the SD card.

There's a new learning curve for video, but it's fun!

Since its Sony's format, my new Sony bridge camera offers both AVCHD and MP4. After one day working with AVCHD folders, companion files and my old utilities that never heard of it, I was fortunate to be able to throw the switch back to MP4. Never really noticed much difference but for a lot more space I could be persueded to go back to AVCHD.

02-10-2012, 05:17 PM	#1
raider Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,989	What speed SD card for K-01 video recording in full HD? Hi, what speed should we get for the SD card if we wanted to record in full HD? Do we need a class 10 (30MB/sec) card or a 45MB/sec card? Sandisk has both of these available but obviously the 45mb/sec card is a lot more expensive. If it is not a recommendation to go for this for k-01 video, then i would like to save some cash by going class 10. Opinions please? Thanks

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02-10-2012, 05:51 PM	#2
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Probably even older class 6 cards can keep up with video recording. Video isn't so demanding on writespeed. I do wonder how fast writing to the card is when the buffer gets cleared.

02-10-2012, 06:04 PM	#3
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	I use a 32GB Sandisk Ultra Class 4 15mb/sec SDHC card in my Panasonic TM700 3MOS camcorder in 1080p60 28mb/sec mode without any problems. I have 30mb/sec and 45mb/sec Sandisk cards and may use the 45mb/sec card in my pre-ordered K-01 since it's an extra card.

02-10-2012, 06:25 PM	#4
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	I am not a video wizard but simple arithmetic says full HD at 30fps is 1920108030=60MB/sec (as in byte not bit). As this must be compressed to save space you introduce the compression factor (which you have from the designated playback stream of 28mb/sec (bits is the usual way of indicating video stream speed). Therefore your 28mb stream requires only a 3,5 mB/sec minimum Write Speed for the SD card. Although I know the full HD at 25fps on the k-5 works on highest quality (lowest compression) with of my Class 10 or Class 6 brand name cards. Maximum speed, such as the 30MB and 45MB Sandisk, does not matter as its the minimum Write Speed that matters most for video in the Class10 or Class6 designation as either one should have no problem. Even a good quality Class 4. If I missed a decimal or something somebody please correct my statement.

02-10-2012, 06:30 PM	#5
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by imtheguy I am not a video wizard but simple arithmetic says full HD at 30fps is 1920108030=60MB/sec (as in byte not bit). As this must be compressed to save space you introduce the compression factor (which you have from the designated playback stream of 28mb/sec (bits is the usual way of indicating video stream speed). Therefore your 28mb stream requires only a 3,5 mB/sec minimum Write Speed for the SD card. Although I know the full HD at 25fps on the k-5 works on highest quality (lowest compression) with of my Class 10 or Class 6 brand name cards. Maximum speed, such as the 30MB and 45MB Sandisk, does not matter as its the minimum Write Speed that matters most for video in the Class10 or Class6 designation as either one should have no problem. Even a good quality Class 4. If I missed a decimal or something somebody please correct my statement. Well it al comes with the quality of the image and the compression. I've seen on my K-5 up 72 Mb/s wich means up to 9 MB/s writespeed. My guess is that K-01 needs much less then that.

02-10-2012, 06:33 PM	#6
raider Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,989 Original Poster	So a humber class 10 card is fine then.....I will hit the buy button today...

02-10-2012, 06:36 PM	#7
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well it al comes with the quality of the image and the compression. I've seen on my K-5 up 72 Mb/s wich means up to 9 MB/s writespeed. My guess is that K-01 needs much less then that. Knowing almost nothing about the K-01 and video internals I believe you. But I thought the new camera does 30fps full HD. Other than higher compression, why so you expect it to be LESS than the k-5 instead of more?

02-10-2012, 06:38 PM	#8
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	Originally posted by raider So a humber class 10 card is fine then.....I will hit the buy button today... If you are looking for recommendations, its hard to go wrong with the Sandisk but Transcend 16GB/Class 10 can be had for a lot less. I use both but everybody has fav.

02-10-2012, 06:40 PM	#9
raider Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,989 Original Poster	Thanks imtheguy. I have a couple of 8GB class 10 sandisk cards and they worked flawlessly for me all these years. So I reckon I will continue to support the brand

02-10-2012, 06:40 PM	#10
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by imtheguy Knowing almost nothing about the K-01 and video internals I believe you. But I thought the new camera does 30fps full HD. Other than higher compression, why so you expect it to be LESS than the k-5 instead of more? Different way of storage. I guess that means less space invasive and thus allowing to make longer videoclips at hi resolution without using the max of 4 GB for a single clip.

02-10-2012, 06:41 PM	#11
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	My GH2 records at 23Mbps, a little higher than the K-01. I use Class 10 cards and have never had a problem. Maybe a Class 6 will work; I haven't tried...

02-10-2012, 06:44 PM	#12
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by johnmflores My GH2 records at 23Mbps, a little higher than the K-01. I use Class 10 cards and have never had a problem. Maybe a Class 6 will work; I haven't tried... Wow! Would that mean that we can record FullHD clips up to 25 minutes? With K-5 we can only run up to 5'22". And still have the same image quality?

02-10-2012, 06:53 PM	#13
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Different way of storage. I guess that means less space invasive and thus allowing to make longer videoclips at hi resolution without using the max of 4 GB for a single clip. By different way, are you expecting a different format/codec? Just wondering.

02-10-2012, 07:08 PM	#14
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Wow! Would that mean that we can record FullHD clips up to 25 minutes? With K-5 we can only run up to 5'22". And still have the same image quality? The AVCHD/H.264 format that the K-01 uses is very space efficient but requires significant processing power to compress before storing on the SD card. Pentax likely had to upgrade their image processing engine to handle AVCHD, which I suspect led to Prime M. IIRC I can get 60 minutes on a 16Gb card. On the flipside, it's also processor-intensive to edit. New editors like Final Cut Pro X can handle the files natively, but you'll also need a swift computer that can handle decoding the stream and overlaying color correction and effects on the fly. If you've got an older computer or software that can't handle AVCHD natively, you can still edit the files but you'll need to transcode it into a more edit-friendly format like Apple ProRES or Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC). These codecs are built for editing - they've got very little (if any) interframe compression for the software of CPU to worry about. So they are easy to work with but take up tons of hard drive space. So the process in this situation is AVCHD -> transcoded to ProRES or AIC -> edits -> render to H.264 for web or elsewhere. One more note - the AVCHD spec calls for a rats nest of folder on the SD card. On the GH2, mine are stored in the Private/AVCHD/BDMV/Stream folder. File organization is nothing like handing JPGs or .PEFs or .DNGs, so read the manual before you go moving stuff around. There's a new learning curve for video, but it's fun! Hope this helps!

02-10-2012, 07:15 PM	#15
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	Originally posted by johnmflores One more note - the AVCHD spec calls for a rats nest of folder on the SD card. There's a new learning curve for video, but it's fun! Since its Sony's format, my new Sony bridge camera offers both AVCHD and MP4. After one day working with AVCHD folders, companion files and my old utilities that never heard of it, I was fortunate to be able to throw the switch back to MP4. Never really noticed much difference but for a lot more space I could be persueded to go back to AVCHD.