Originally posted by rob_k20d Yes, Harford was talking about Canon. Perhaps he understates the position that Canon were already in as camera manufacturers, and therefore unfair for him to refer to them as a "photocopier company". However, it seems to me that Harford's main point remains: the first digital cameras were not perfect, and certainly not as good as film cameras for anyone serious about photography. But there was a niche market for digital cameras, even early on. This niche market then gave "the technology a foothold to improve". And it improved very quickly, and "many established names such as Fuji, Kodak, Olympus and Leica" (and we can add Pentax) "were scrambling to catch up in a landscape that had dramatically changed."
OK, I don't know who this guy you are talking about, so I don't know if he has any more credentials as a commentator than Newson has as a camera stylist but, the company that really blew it at the start of digital camera was Kodak. They invented the things, and then went on to ignore them as much as they could.
Saying he was understating Canon's place as a camera manufacture is a delightfully polite way of saying he has his head stuck firmly in his nether regions, and anything he said afterwards would have to be treated with suspicion, since his initial premise is stupidly wrong. Canon had been making cameras since 1935, they started as a camera manufacturer, and were very much at the forefront of camera manufacture from the 1960s onwards. They were the first company to invest heavily in electronics to operate their cameras (perhaps they were able to borrow some know how from the business machine end of things), the original EOS camera of 1987 was pretty much a computer with a lens.
Canon had the advantage at the time of being large enough to have a strong electronics division, and were forward thinking enough to combine electronics and cameras, and ultimately to see the advantage of digital imaging as the future, but calling them a business machine company is just laughably ignorant.
Quote: Ultimately, that assessment seems right to me. And, interestingly, it is with the introduction of mirrorless camers (and often viewfinderless cameras) that Fuji and Olympus are getting back into the picture.
The asessment is right, the reasoning is suspect.
Quote: If there are problems with the screen, it is reasonable to think that this then will be an area that camera manufacturers will be keen to improve. Of course, if there is reason to think that this is simply impossible, that would change things. But I am not convinced that it is impossible to develop a screen that can be seen in daylight. I could be wrong, but I am not yet convinced.
Car manufacturers haven't figured it out with dashboards yet. It's why we still have dials rather than readouts. Figuring it out will involve a pretty daunting challenge, either cause the sun to go dim, or make an LCD backlight powerful enough to overcome the sun's brightness, while at the same time not be so hot as to melt the camera or burn out the retinas of the users.
Probably it will be easier for them to cause the sun to go dim, but the unforeseen consequences of that are pretty dire.
Quote: Regarding the claim that this thread is evidence that people have been brainwashed into thinking cameras and viewfinders don't mix, that doesn't sound plausible to me.
You think they just woke up en masse and said we don't want viewfinders any more? Camera manufacturers, like every other manufacturer want to sell their product for as much as they can, while at the same time making it for as little as they can. It's called maximizing profit for the shareholders, and it is the number 1 priority of companies, even at the expense of their customers. A good viewfinder is both a thing of beauty to use, and a very expensive component to put on a camera, especially compact cameras where the viewfinder needs to be coupled to a zoom lens without actually using that lens for viewing. Removing the viewfinder and just letting people use the viewscreen makes good economic sense. The progression from viewfinders to no viewfinders started with making the viewfinders really crappy so that people would tend to stop using them in place of the rear screens. After that, they weren't missed. I also don't think we can discount the effect that camera phones had. They got people away from using cameras altogether, but also from using viewfinders in particular.
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Certainly until the bright sunlight problem has been solved, there is definitely a place for a viewfinder. Even after the problem is solved, there may still be.
But I find some of the objections about screens - e.g. that they can't be held stable - simply unconvincing. I also think there are advantages of not having a viewfinder/mirror that are often ignored. There are some very real problems with the screens - well, 1 anyway, but a significant one. But many of the other objections, and blindness to advantages, seems to be resistance to change.
Try holding a camera at arms length with a long telephoto lens and see if you can hold it steady. The only advantages to not having a viewfinder are economic, especially for the manufacturer, who doesn't have to put them onto the cameras, thereby saving a boatload of manufacturing costs, and some smaller advantages to the consumer, who gets a slightly cheaper and smaller product.
The disadvantage is not having a viewfinder.
Quote: I don't think I am ready to give up my viewfinder yet. But I can see potential benefits in the future, and I can see the appeal of a mirrorless camera (e.g. for indoor event photography where it is important to be a quiet as possible), and I am simply interested to imagine (and then to wait and see) what cameras will look like in 10 or 20 years time.
Not having a mirror and not having a viewfinder do not go hand in hand. Panasonic make very nice little mirrorless cameras that have viewfinders. Sorry to shoot that one down for you, but that's just the way it is.
Quote: Also, how have the camera manufacturers performed this brainwashing? I haven't seen any anti-viewfinder propaganda. There is certainly evidence that consumers are buying cameras without viewfinders. This doesn't seem to me to be good evidence of brainwashing. Olympus (and others) make m4/3 cameras with and without viewfinders, and the ones without seem to be very popular.
Consumers have had the option taken away from them. They haven't complained for the most part, but this doesn't change that they are no longer being given the option. To a great extent, mirrorless cameras are being touted as the next Second Coming, and people are certainly buying into it. Olympus has the advantage of having dropped their OM system so long ago that no one cares about it any more, and the other 4/3 makers have no depth of age in the camera industry. 4/3 is a reinvention of the wheel, and is being hyped as new and improved. The brainwashing has nothing to do with viewfinders, they have just been taken away by the manufacturers.