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02-14-2012, 11:47 AM   #1
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Anti-reflection coating

Apparently, the K-01 includes a coating on the LCD screen to make it visible even in bright sunlight:

The 3-inch, 921,000-dot LCD screen features an anti-reflection coating, which appeared to work really well, even under the spotlights at the product preview.
Not only did this make for a clearer view of the screen in bright light, it also meant that the viewing angle was extremely wide (Pentax claims 170 degrees). The screen needs to be good as there's no optical viewfinder, which may be a stumbling block for some.

Is anyone in a position to comment on this? Does it work well?

Do other cameras have similar coatings, and are they effective?

If this works well, I think the K-01 will be a great camera.

I suspect that this (the development of LCD screens that are useful in bright sunlight) is likely to be one of the main areas of innovation in the development of cameras.

If Pentax (or anyone else) takes a lead in this area it will be a significant advantage.

02-14-2012, 11:49 AM   #2
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Where did you get your quoted statement from?

And to add as jest: Good lord, Pentax is applying SMC onto their LCDs now!
02-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #3
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Rather than wait for people to say that the glare isn't the only problem with an LCD screen, and that you need a view finder for other reasons, I'll just respond now, and say that - as long as the glare can be dealt with - the lack of a view finder may actually be a positive - for the following reasons.



Easier to hold stable. Yes, that is what I said!Just because you can hold it at arm’s length,doesn’t mean you have to.

Joe McNally recommends “Da Grip”


However, he admits this grip isn’t so good forsmaller DSLRs, or for anyone who is right-eyed.With a smaller DSLR, you have to kind of raiseyour shoulders, and drop your head, to contort yourself to get your eye to theviewfinder.It’s even harder if right-eyed.But now use liveview, try the same grip, andjust look down into the screen.

Its easier for shooting portrait orientation(without a battery grip)

It is easier to shoot from different heights

It is better for manual focus

Using the screen, you can have the benefit ofhighlight/lowlight warnings and/or histograms while composing.

It is better with a tripod. You don’t need to worry about light getting in theviewfinder and effecting the exposure, and you don’t have to contort yourself to get your eyeto the viewfinder (e.g. if it’s a foot off the ground)

It is much easier to simultaneously look at the screen andsee what else is going on around you.

It is easier if you wear glasses. Keep yourglasses on, and just look at the screen.

If you really want it, you can use a HoodmanH-LPP3 focus Loupe, or similar.Or cheaper: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-4-3-LCD-ViewFinder-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-II-500D-Powershot-S90-50D-7D-CAMERA-/320735067851?pt=AU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories&hash=item4aad4cbecb

Younger photographers don’t expect a viewfinder,or want one.

Ultimately, digital cameras don't need a mirror any more. And if a coating can deal with the glare, they won't need a viewfinder. Is it ridiculous to think that, in the future, SLRs may be no more common than twin lens cameras.
02-14-2012, 11:58 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Where did you get your quoted statement from?

And to add as jest: Good lord, Pentax is applying SMC onto their LCDs now!

Sorry. I meant to paste the link as well, but must have forgot.

Pentax K-01 review: Hands-on | T3

02-14-2012, 11:58 AM   #5
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Well they've got to solve the problem one way or another, right? Reducing glare sounds like a good first step

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02-14-2012, 01:48 PM   #6
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I still think that Pinhole-member is doing the smart thing with using some kind of hood on it like zakuto or hoodman.
02-14-2012, 10:41 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by rob_k20d Quote
Apparently, the K-01 includes a coating on the LCD screen to make it visible even in bright sunlight:
I didn't realize an anti reflection coating could drown out the sun. The problem isn't reflections so much as if the sun is brighter than the backlight on the LCD, the LCD isn't going to be visible.
02-14-2012, 11:38 PM   #8
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The K-5 has an antireflective coating on the LCD and I don't find it especially helpful in bright sunlight.

02-15-2012, 02:57 AM   #9
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if its anything like the Q you wont have a clue what your looking at in the sun... I've kinda gotten use to it... In bright light I can still manual focus with it but cant see the out come of the picture its kinda hard to explain...
02-15-2012, 03:36 AM   #10
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So is the solution going to be to combine a camera with a kindle?
02-15-2012, 06:24 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by rob_k20d Quote
So is the solution going to be to combine a camera with a kindle?
The solution is, in the case of the K-01, to wait until they put a model out with a viewfinder.
02-15-2012, 04:08 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The solution is, in the case of the K-01, to wait until they put a model out with a viewfinder.
I'm not so sure. Even with the problems, cameras without viewfinders are becoming increasingly popular. If someone can make the screens more useable even in bright sunlight, this is likely to have a dramatic effect. I don't see why this should be impossible.

In his book, Adapt, Tim Harford briefly talks about how many of the traditional camera manufacturers were slow to see the potential of digital cameras, mainly because the first versions weren't promising. So they neglected them. Which then allowed a photocopying firm to become the dominant force in photography, because they embraced digital photography early.

I suspect that it would be risky for any of the camera firms now to neglect mirrorless/viewfinderless cameras.
02-15-2012, 04:26 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield:
The solution is, in the case of the K-01, to wait until they put a model out with a viewfinder.
Look, there are plenty of threads here where you can nag about the lack of eye level EVF. I for one don't want one. And the fact that it is omitted creates a market for workarounds. Great news for me. Now, you go and wait for K-02. I want this one.

Last edited by Bankebrett; 02-15-2012 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Added quote
02-15-2012, 10:52 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rob_k20d Quote
I'm not so sure. Even with the problems, cameras without viewfinders are becoming increasingly popular. If someone can make the screens more useable even in bright sunlight, this is likely to have a dramatic effect. I don't see why this should be impossible.

In his book, Adapt, Tim Harford briefly talks about how many of the traditional camera manufacturers were slow to see the potential of digital cameras, mainly because the first versions weren't promising. So they neglected them. Which then allowed a photocopying firm to become the dominant force in photography, because they embraced digital photography early.

I suspect that it would be risky for any of the camera firms now to neglect mirrorless/viewfinderless cameras.
If you are talking about Canon, they were a pretty dominant force in still photography, long before digital came along. Anyway, I was speaking specifically to workarounds for what is going to be a problem for users of this camera who try to shoot with the sun behind them, not making a comment on embracing old ideas that have been updated so that people think they are new.
It's obvious that the industry has brainwashed people into thinking cameras and viewfinders don't mix, this thread alone is evidence of that.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bankebrett Quote
Look, there are plenty of threads here where you can nag about the lack of eye level EVF. I for one don't want one. And the fact that it is omitted creates a market for workarounds. Great news for me. Now, you go and wait for K-02. I want this one.
Again, I was speaking specifically to how to deal with the problem of bright sunlight falling on the camera's only way of aiming it, which will very effectively render the camera useless.
There are all sorts of kludges available as well, but the logical way is to wait until a viewfinder model comes out if a person thinks this is going to be an issue for them.
I'm sorry if I kicked your puppy, and I'm even sorrier if you prefer to go out with a wooden legged whore that can't dance. But that is your choice, and if you like working with kludges, and you think that is preferable to having a camera that actually works, then I guess I'm sorry for that as well.
02-16-2012, 05:25 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
If you are talking about Canon, they were a pretty dominant force in still photography, long before digital came along. Anyway, I was speaking specifically to workarounds for what is going to be a problem for users of this camera who try to shoot with the sun behind them, not making a comment on embracing old ideas that have been updated so that people think they are new.
It's obvious that the industry has brainwashed people into thinking cameras and viewfinders don't mix, this thread alone is evidence of that.
Yes, Harford was talking about Canon. Perhaps he understates the position that Canon were already in as camera manufacturers, and therefore unfair for him to refer to them as a "photocopier company". However, it seems to me that Harford's main point remains: the first digital cameras were not perfect, and certainly not as good as film cameras for anyone serious about photography. But there was a niche market for digital cameras, even early on. This niche market then gave "the technology a foothold to improve". And it improved very quickly, and "many established names such as Fuji, Kodak, Olympus and Leica" (and we can add Pentax) "were scrambling to catch up in a landscape that had dramatically changed."

Ultimately, that assessment seems right to me. And, interestingly, it is with the introduction of mirrorless camers (and often viewfinderless cameras) that Fuji and Olympus are getting back into the picture.

If there are problems with the screen, it is reasonable to think that this then will be an area that camera manufacturers will be keen to improve. Of course, if there is reason to think that this is simply impossible, that would change things. But I am not convinced that it is impossible to develop a screen that can be seen in daylight. I could be wrong, but I am not yet convinced.

Regarding the claim that this thread is evidence that people have been brainwashed into thinking cameras and viewfinders don't mix, that doesn't sound plausible to me.

Certainly until the bright sunlight problem has been solved, there is definitely a place for a viewfinder. Even after the problem is solved, there may still be.

But I find some of the objections about screens - e.g. that they can't be held stable - simply unconvincing. I also think there are advantages of not having a viewfinder/mirror that are often ignored. There are some very real problems with the screens - well, 1 anyway, but a significant one. But many of the other objections, and blindness to advantages, seems to be resistance to change.

I don't think I am ready to give up my viewfinder yet. But I can see potential benefits in the future, and I can see the appeal of a mirrorless camera (e.g. for indoor event photography where it is important to be a quiet as possible), and I am simply interested to imagine (and then to wait and see) what cameras will look like in 10 or 20 years time.

Also, how have the camera manufacturers performed this brainwashing? I haven't seen any anti-viewfinder propaganda. There is certainly evidence that consumers are buying cameras without viewfinders. This doesn't seem to me to be good evidence of brainwashing. Olympus (and others) make m4/3 cameras with and without viewfinders, and the ones without seem to be very popular.
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