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02-23-2012, 09:02 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
If the K-01 can have in body SR with full support for the 25 million K-mount lenses out there for $749 so can the Sony Nex 5N.



that image of the K-01 with the FA limiteds makes the body look foul- like a darlek or something.

i didn't mind the body all that much with the XS lens on it, but that looks horrible

02-23-2012, 09:07 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
Despite what the hard-headed Pentaxians want to believe, this is true. "25 million K-mount lenses out there" in reality only come down to a handful of actually useful and worth-to-be used lenses. As oppose to Sony's Nex-line, on which you can use any existing lens from any existing manufacturer with the appropriate adapter.

If Ricoh wanted to do something bold, they should've made a camera body with modular lens mount. So you could use any existing lens on the market with the appropriate CAPABLE module. Imagine being able to use Nikon or Canon lenses with AF. Which also includes some gems in Canon FD-mount. And Leica and... The sky is the limit! Now, this is bold and ballsy!!! This is innovative!! This is game changing!!!

But instead they've vomited-out a lego-toy. (((
You mean something like this?



Sony's selling them for $300 each. You think a lot of people are going to pony up $300 for this visual wart?

And regarding lenses that will work well with the K-01, I can think of 10 right off the top of my head that will AF and control the aperture:

DA Limiteds
15
21
35
40
70

FA Limiteds
31
43
77

DA
14
35
40XS
50
50 Macro
100 Macro
18-55
12-24
10-17
18-135
17-70

And that's without really trying too hard.

The only other mirrorless system that comes even close is Micro Four-Thirds, and they are very deficient in fast, constant aperture zooms. And their IQ is close but not quite there as well.
02-23-2012, 09:58 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote

And regarding lenses that will work well with the K-01, I can think of 10 right off the top of my head that will AF and control the aperture:

DA Limiteds
15
21
35
40
70

FA Limiteds
31
43
77

DA
14
35
40XS
50
50 Macro
100 Macro
18-55
12-24
10-17
18-135
17-70

And that's without really trying too hard.
Congratulations! You've successfully listed all the lenses in Pentax's current lineup, but these have little to do with "years and years of 25 million K-mount lenses" everybody are so orgasmic about when they talk about K-mount legacy glass. I don't know about others, but if I had to make the same list out of K/M/A lenses, it will be on the short side.... Imho, there is more useful legacy glass in Canon's FD and Nikons AI-S lines.

The lenses you've listed are surely worth using. But are they worth sticking to the K-mount and carrying over the rather bulky mirror-box? Knowing the fact that photography is slowly migrating towards video and SLR will eventually vanish or become a niche product? Hardly.

If Pentax has chose to stick with the mirror box, they could've just as well used the Ricoh's modular experience and make a modular lens mount. Want to stick to your lovely collection of K-glass? The camera comes with the K-module by default! Want to slap a beautiful 600/5.6 Canon (that has no purchaseble equivalents in K-mount) lens on that uber-sexy yellow-jacketed Pentax body? 200-300$ adapter will get you there in no time!!! And you get blazingly-smooth and precise AF with that too!!! 200-300$ is still less than a full-sized Nikon/Canon body.

Or going outside of Pentax box it too outside for you?

I was thinking more about something like this:

but only for the lens mount. Sensor always stays the same.

In K-01 the space between the sensor and the lens mount is a waisted bulk anyways, why not do something radical with it? But I guess the dial-mode snorkel is as radical as it gets.

Last edited by alexeyga; 02-23-2012 at 10:05 AM.
02-23-2012, 10:27 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
Despite what the hard-headed Pentaxians want to believe, this is true. "25 million K-mount lenses out there" in reality only come down to a handful of actually useful and worth-to-be used lenses. As oppose to Sony's Nex-line, on which you can use any existing lens from any existing manufacturer with the appropriate adapter.

If Ricoh wanted to do something bold, they should've made a camera body with modular lens mount. So you could use any existing lens on the market with the appropriate AF-CAPABLE module. Imagine being able to use Nikon or Canon lenses with AF. Which also includes some gems in Canon FD-mount. And Leica and... The sky is the limit! Now, this is bold and ballsy!!! This is innovative!! This is game changing!!!

But instead they've vomited-out a lego-toy. (((
they have - just need to launch more modules. different client base than the K-01



02-23-2012, 10:34 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
Congratulations! You've successfully listed all the lenses in Pentax's current lineup, but these have little to do with "years and years of 25 million K-mount lenses" everybody are so orgasmic about when they talk about K-mount legacy glass. I don't know about others, but if I had to make the same list out of K/M/A lenses, it will be on the short side.... Imho, there is more useful legacy glass in Canon's FD and Nikons AI-S lines.

The lenses you've listed are surely worth using. But are they worth sticking to the K-mount and carrying over the rather bulky mirror-box? Knowing the fact that photography is slowly migrating towards video and SLR will eventually vanish or become a niche product? Hardly.

If Pentax has chose to stick with the mirror box, they could've just as well used the Ricoh's modular experience and make a modular lens mount. Want to stick to your lovely collection of K-glass? The camera comes with the K-module by default! Want to slap a beautiful 600/5.6 Canon (that has no purchaseble equivalents in K-mount) lens on that uber-sexy yellow-jacketed Pentax body? 200-300$ adapter will get you there in no time!!! And you get blazingly-smooth and precise AF with that too!!! 200-300$ is still less than a full-sized Nikon/Canon body.

Or going outside of Pentax box it too outside for you?

I was thinking more about something like this:

but only for the lens mount. Sensor always stays the same.

In K-01 the space between the sensor and the lens mount is a waisted bulk anyways, why not do something radical with it? But I guess the dial-mode snorkel is as radical as it gets.
i see you were thinking the same thing

in defence of the K-01 you are about as far from the target market as ansel adams. this is not aimed at the users on this forum for the most part it is aimed at people who want it simplified and who aren't tied to enthusiast vision of what an ideal camera is

Personally i'd like to see a larger variant on the GXR body that would allow mountors for up to 645 with appropriate sensors including FF. REverse engineer the AF system like the lens guys do and evey mountor could be full AF. I think there will be a K mountor by year end (maybe even with the new 24mp sensor)
I do think the base body needs a couple of updates though

Now if Pentax Canada would just bring the damn line into Canada so I could buy it (certainly there are enough specialty shops here with online presence to get coast to coast representation)
02-23-2012, 10:47 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
Congratulations! You've successfully listed all the lenses in Pentax's current lineup, but these have little to do with "years and years of 25 million K-mount lenses" everybody are so orgasmic about when they talk about K-mount legacy glass. I don't know about others, but if I had to make the same list out of K/M/A lenses, it will be on the short side.... Imho, there is more useful legacy glass in Canon's FD and Nikons AI-S lines.

The lenses you've listed are surely worth using. But are they worth sticking to the K-mount and carrying over the rather bulky mirror-box? Knowing the fact that photography is slowly migrating towards video and SLR will eventually vanish or become a niche product? Hardly.

If Pentax has chose to stick with the mirror box, they could've just as well used the Ricoh's modular experience and make a modular lens mount. Want to stick to your lovely collection of K-glass? The camera comes with the K-module by default! Want to slap a beautiful 600/5.6 Canon (that has no purchaseble equivalents in K-mount) lens on that uber-sexy yellow-jacketed Pentax body? 200-300$ adapter will get you there in no time!!! And you get blazingly-smooth and precise AF with that too!!! 200-300$ is still less than a full-sized Nikon/Canon body.

Or going outside of Pentax box it too outside for you?

I was thinking more about something like this:

but only for the lens mount. Sensor always stays the same.

In K-01 the space between the sensor and the lens mount is a waisted bulk anyways, why not do something radical with it? But I guess the dial-mode snorkel is as radical as it gets.

You're funny. I owned a Ricoh GX100 and loved it until it was stolen. I've watched the GXR with curiosity but can't justify the price. Instead I've added Micro Four-Thirds because I needed video, but I'll probably pick up a used GRD III at some point. They make great cameras.

Now that they own Ricoh, a K-mount module is simply a matter of time, unless they choose to cancel the GXR altogether. It's a very niche product, and if you think adding complexity will yield more sales, then I'm glad you're not running Pentax product development otherwise Pentax will just make cameras for the handful of members of this forum.
02-23-2012, 11:08 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
You're funny. I owned a Ricoh GX100 and loved it until it was stolen. I've watched the GXR with curiosity but can't justify the price. Instead I've added Micro Four-Thirds because I needed video, but I'll probably pick up a used GRD III at some point. They make great cameras.

Now that they own Ricoh, a K-mount module is simply a matter of time, unless they choose to cancel the GXR altogether. It's a very niche product, and if you think adding complexity will yield more sales, then I'm glad you're not running Pentax product development otherwise Pentax will just make cameras for the handful of members of this forum.
Glad i've made you smile. But judging from what was coming out from Pentax's marketing and product-development departments during the last 4-6 years it's being run by monkeys anyways. So it's still a big question which evil is worse - somebody like me or these who's in charge right now.

A question that's bugging though, if K-01 targets the brain-disabled customers who want nothing but simplicity from the camera, than whom the Q-series is for?
02-23-2012, 11:28 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
Glad i've made you smile. But judging from what was coming out from Pentax's marketing and product-development departments during the last 4-6 years it's being run by monkeys anyways. So it's still a big question which evil is worse - somebody like me or these who's in charge right now.
IIRC the last 4-6 years has brought us some of the best Pentax cameras ever, from dSLRs that led their respective price classes (K-x, K-5) to a market-changing MF (645D). There has been a comparative lack of lenses and innovation though. Hopefully Ricoh will put dollars towards their investment and make Pentax relevant again to a wider audience.

QuoteQuote:
A question that's bugging though, if K-01 targets the brain-disabled customers who want nothing but simplicity from the camera, than whom the Q-series is for?
Why do you have to be such a camera snob? One of the people I'd recommend the K-01 to is a fantastic dancer and river guide. The other is an Ivy-League educated JD/MBA. Another is an astronomer. Another is is a painter. Another, a furniture designer. Another a graphic designer. I know plenty of smart and talented and brilliant folk that I'd recommend the K-01 to and they'd probably take wonderfully creative photos that they'd use to inspire their work and other hobbies. Just because they're not interested in learning about photography to the level that we do doesn't make them brain-disabled. Far from it.

02-23-2012, 12:30 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Why do you have to be such a camera snob? One of the people I'd recommend the K-01 to is a fantastic dancer and river guide. The other is an Ivy-League educated JD/MBA. Another is an astronomer. Another is is a painter. Another, a furniture designer. Another a graphic designer. I know plenty of smart and talented and brilliant folk that I'd recommend the K-01 to and they'd probably take wonderfully creative photos that they'd use to inspire their work and other hobbies. Just because they're not interested in learning about photography to the level that we do doesn't make them brain-disabled. Far from it.
I may be a camera snob, but you guys have to decide what you want. When I say that K-01 is fugly and lacks the same external controls that E-M5 has, i'm blocked-out of topics because K-01 is targeting a totally different audience - the audience that wants nothing but simplicity. Now that I call things by their proper names, all of a sudden K-01 is targeting a much broader and more creative audience. One can't get half-way pregnant! And if you're more ore less serious about photography it will require some basic knowledge about what happens when you press a button, and with that basic knowledge comes the need for some more advanced external controls. Back to square one! And I'm sure that all these people you've mentioned, to whom you've recommended the camera (they surely sound like having some taste) will find both E-M5 and X-Pro1 much more visually appealing given the choice.
02-23-2012, 12:43 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
I may be a camera snob, but you guys have to decide what you want. When I say that K-01 is fugly and lacks the same external controls that E-M5 has, i'm blocked-out of topics because K-01 is targeting a totally different audience - the audience that wants nothing but simplicity. Now that I call things by their proper names, all of a sudden K-01 is targeting a much broader and more creative audience. One can't get half-way pregnant! And if you're more ore less serious about photography it will require some basic knowledge about what happens when you press a button, and with that basic knowledge comes the need for some more advanced external controls. Back to square one! And I'm sure that all these people you've mentioned, to whom you've recommended the camera (they surely sound like having some taste) will find both E-M5 and X-Pro1 much more visually appealing given the choice.
both at higher prices both designed for a more traditional enthusiast audience.

As for fugly that's a mater of personal judgement some people seem to like it (I'm one of them i think it's a refreshing design myself - the OMD and Fuji while i like both are just nostalgia driven rehashes if you want the honest truth as I see it)

No-one who is going to buy an OMD or Xpro is the customer the K-01 targets. John actually points out many potentials he know, I too could put a list of artists together who would also probably like the design and functionality. I doubt I would recommend it to a serious photographer (but then they don't ask for recommendations since they know it all already )

Really you've gotten completely worked up over nothing. so waht Pentax release a product that isn't for you, I'm sure there have been others they put out that aren't your thing as well. certainly there has been more than a few i didn't want (the fabled kx for instance. Meh used it for 2 weeks returned it couldn't stand it. love my ds, K10 and K7 though )

comparing the K-01 to the OMD and Xpro is like comparing abstract art to Renaissance art. Both genres have produced masterworks both genres have people that love or hate them. apples to oranges
02-23-2012, 12:59 PM - 1 Like   #26
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Alexyga: My only problem with the K-01 - and I have one pre-ordered - is that Pentax can't seem to decide what it is. I agree with you that it is neither really simple nor full-featured nor really compact nor large.

But I can and do plan to use every one of my K-mount lenses with it - from the K200/2.5 all the way to the DA40/2.8L. I bought the camera to use with legacy lenses.

I will take some serious pleasure posting results, as well as asking my wife to help me make a "How-To" thread by taking shots of me holding and using the camera.

Each of us is entitled to an opinion about this camera - but I refuse to accept being denigrated for my choice (and before you get upset about that comment it is not directed at you - it is an explosion of bile built up over these weeks of negative comments).

I think K-01 is a striking design. I like it.
I think K-01 will be a useful addition to my kit.
I think K-01 will be my most frequently carried camera.
I think K-01 will be an analog to my XA.
I think K-01 will not keep me from eventually getting a K-5 - it will just delay the purchase date a few months.

I doubt I will ever sell an image.
I doubt I will ever tire of enjoying photographing.

All will be revealed by Easter.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-23-2012 at 01:38 PM.
02-23-2012, 01:01 PM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
I may be a camera snob, but you guys have to decide what you want. When I say that K-01 is fugly and lacks the same external controls that E-M5 has, i'm blocked-out of topics because K-01 is targeting a totally different audience - the audience that wants nothing but simplicity. Now that I call things by their proper names, all of a sudden K-01 is targeting a much broader and more creative audience. One can't get half-way pregnant! And if you're more ore less serious about photography it will require some basic knowledge about what happens when you press a button, and with that basic knowledge comes the need for some more advanced external controls. Back to square one! And I'm sure that all these people you've mentioned, to whom you've recommended the camera (they surely sound like having some taste) will find both E-M5 and X-Pro1 much more visually appealing given the choice.
When in Aperture Priority mode, how many external controls do you really need? Set it to Auto ISO, spin the main dial to set Aperture, use Exposure Compensation for tricky lighting. How hard is that? I can teach someone to use the K-01 in 5 minutes.

And you're taking a mighty big leap by suggesting that all of my friends would prefer the Oly or Fuji to the K-01. Firstly, you don't know my friends, some are aesthetically conservative, others are more daring, with dyed haired, tattoos, personal style.

Second, you presume that they all think alike and that there's this universal agreement on "visually appealing". Do yourself a favor and take a look at paintings of nudes from the 17th and 18th century. Then come back and tell me if "visually appealing" is universal.

To presume that a group of people you've never met would come to a singular conclusion is absurd.
02-23-2012, 02:00 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
To presume that a group of people you've never met would come to a singular conclusion is absurd.
Not more absurd than releasing a Fisher Price-looking camera with the most advanced APS-C sized sensor on the market to date and hope that it will sell like pancakes!

I'd have to agree with monochrome, Pentax doesn't really know what to make of it. External design aimed at the kinder garden, amount of available external controls aimed at these who want to use their brain as little as possible and features-wise as capable as K5. It kinda doesn't really mix well together.
02-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
When in Aperture Priority mode, how many external controls do you really need? Set it to Auto ISO, spin the main dial to set Aperture, use Exposure Compensation for tricky lighting. How hard is that? I can teach someone to use the K-01 in 5 minutes.
I hope I will learn it in those 5 minutes. It looks like I'm the only one liking this yellow Tonka and has it on order.
02-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
Not more absurd than releasing a Fisher Price-looking camera with the most advanced APS-C sized sensor on the market to date and hope that it will sell like pancakes!

I'd have to agree with monochrome, Pentax doesn't really know what to make of it. External design aimed at the kinder garden, amount of available external controls aimed at these who want to use their brain as little as possible and features-wise as capable as K5. It kinda doesn't really mix well together.
Since when did you become the sole arbiter of design and style? Since when did your opinion count more than anyone else's? I'm ok with people having a different opinion than me, but when people act as if their opinion is truth, that's another story. You really are a piece of work.

Sorry to the OP for dragging this so far off-topic. In an attempt to make amends, I'd like to see the K-02 continue some of the ideas of the K-01, namely a high quality camera that's easy to use. I'd love to see a revolution in the user-interface, as that's the one piece of the experience that's more or less a straight pickup from the K-5. Others are playing around with software wizard-style interfaces with guided text and whatnot, but most of them feel like they were programmed for Windows95.

I'd like Pentax to hire this guy and have him work with Newson on the K-02:


Together, they'd really need to rethink the camera. They couldn't simply use the mattebox app because the form factor is different, but they could try to apply some of its simple control ideas on a rear touchscreen. Likewise, they have to really think about the form of the camera, as users will be using it very differently than any existing camera. In either case, the end result is likely to be different than anything that's come before.

And just to piss Alexeyga off, I'd like it in yellow.
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