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03-06-2012, 05:17 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Hmm, sorry about that. I just re-uploaded the file. Please try again and let me know if this time it's okay.
Works perfectly now - thx!

This K-5 ISO100 file is slightly sharper than the last one. However, I was never able to process either one beyond the other in terms of final IQ. That is to say, that I don't think there are any perceivable differences between both units under these circumstances.

Next is the ISO images

Thanks for a great job btw.

03-06-2012, 05:47 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by liukaitc Quote
I just choose the iso3200 raw file to compare
I find the k-01 is a bit darker, and slightly sharper
above iso 1600 the k5 use noise reduction even with raw and you can't turn it off, so if you want to compare high ISO use 1600.
03-06-2012, 05:54 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
above iso 1600 the k5 use noise reduction even with raw and you can't turn it off, so if you want to compare high ISO use 1600.
I have doubts about that. If it does apply NR to the file, then it isn't a raw file.
03-06-2012, 05:55 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Hmm, sorry about that. I just re-uploaded the file. Please try again and let me know if this time it's okay.
Sorry to have to say this(again) but it looks like there are other files that are broken in this set

K-01_ISO3200.DNG doesn't seem to be working either.

03-06-2012, 06:03 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I have doubts about that. If it does apply NR to the file, then it isn't a raw file.
I think the OP was referring to the low level NR applied by the K-5 system which begins at/or around ISO2000 and cannot be turned off.
Which in suppose in some way, this would make the RAW "not so RAW" by the standard that raw files are made-up of unprocessed data. ie. not altered, compressed, or manipulated in any way.
03-06-2012, 06:08 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I have doubts about that. If it does apply NR to the file, then it isn't a raw file.

Then don't believe it.

QuoteQuote:
Here, we can see the Pentax K-5 clearly produces the cleanest looking RAW files, though it appears to be applying some noise reduction at higher ISOs (above ISO 1,600), which cannot be turned off. The noise reduction applied is pretty subtle, though, nothing like the heavy-handed approach used in earlier Sony SLRs. Still, it's something we'd rather not see in RAW files, as it does impact fine detail.
Pentax K-5 Camera Raw - Full Review
03-06-2012, 06:15 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
above iso 1600 the k5 use noise reduction even with raw and you can't turn it off, so if you want to compare high ISO use 1600.
Based on what I've seen, I'd say the K-01 uses the same low level NR technology as the K-5. - no clue at what point it starts, but at ISO6400, the grain and noise patterns seem identical between both units.
03-06-2012, 06:32 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Okay, I won't. I don't take "appears to" as incontrovertible fact.

03-06-2012, 06:48 AM - 1 Like   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Okay, I won't. I don't take "appears to" as incontrovertible fact.


PS. The "smoothed" rating depicts when low level NR kicks-in.


From: DxOMark
QuoteQuote:
Can RAW images be already somewhat cooked?

Tuesday March 10 2009

Shooting pictures in RAW gives DSLR users the opportunity to fine-tune their settings, by potentially controlling every step of the RAW conversion. Users often assume that RAW images are directly output from the sensor without any additional processing, but is this really the case? What kind of processing can be applied and what kind of influence does it have on the final image?
Fixed pattern noise correction

Most noise occurs at the pixel level and can be considered as statistically white (meaning that each individual pixel’s noise is independent from other pixels’ noise) and identically distributed. However, there is another kind of noise, usually less common, that violates this “statistically white” rule. It is noise due to irregularities on the sensor, and thus has a fixed position.

Because different sizes of transistors are shared by all the pixels in a single row or a single column, all the pixels of a row (or column) might be slightly too bright or too dark. This is called row or column noise. It is often possible to correct it by leaving a few pixels unexposed to light on the affected side of the sensor. The level of noise is measured for these pixels and the correction is applied on the whole row or column.

Some pixels can also behave almost independently of the incident light: they may stay dark (dead pixels) or overreact (hot pixels). Most DSLRs have very few dead or hot pixels. Since they are isolated, however, when they occur they are easily detected and replaced by a more adequate value. This can be done directly on the sensor.
Source: DxOMark - Half-cooked RAW

Along these same lines, dgais and I ran some tests when the K-5 was first released that showed that the K-5 did indeed apply NR in their high ISO files. And we did this by limiting sensitivities to ISO1600 and push processing those files afterward. Which we then contrasted with the OOC samples. At what point the differences became night-and-day as we reached the theoretical limits of the system(ie. ISO51200). Having said all that, what was most outstanding with this was that I was never able to match or exceed the output from the low level NR produced by the Pentax system. To which I'd add, is likely far more than just good NR imo. and quite possibly something along the lines of inline data processing. IOW. chroma control measures that are applied at the data processing channel level of things. - thought that's nothing but a wild guess at this stage.

Last edited by JohnBee; 03-06-2012 at 07:28 AM.
03-06-2012, 07:47 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Sorry to have to say this(again) but it looks like there are other files that are broken in this set

K-01_ISO3200.DNG doesn't seem to be working either.
Hmm, sorry about that. I just re-uploaded it. Please give it a try.
03-06-2012, 08:04 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote

PS. The "smoothed" rating depicts when low level NR kicks-in.


From: DxOMark
Source: DxOMark - Half-cooked RAW

Along these same lines, dgais and I ran some tests when the K-5 was first released that showed that the K-5 did indeed apply NR in their high ISO files. And we did this by limiting sensitivities to ISO1600 and push processing those files afterward. Which we then contrasted with the OOC samples. At what point the differences became night-and-day as we reached the theoretical limits of the system(ie. ISO51200). Having said all that, what was most outstanding with this was that I was never able to match or exceed the output from the low level NR produced by the Pentax system. To which I'd add, is likely far more than just good NR imo. and quite possibly something along the lines of inline data processing. IOW. chroma control measures that are applied at the data processing channel level of things. - thought that's nothing but a wild guess at this stage.
Thanks, JohnBee. That's quite more substantiation than "appears to apply........"
03-06-2012, 08:20 AM   #57
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Okay, guess most guys don't have the time or bother downloading all the original files, I made some crops from the original RAW files, added in the first post of this thread. Maybe you'd like to take a look at them
03-06-2012, 08:45 AM   #58
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Sharpness looks equal in crops. Noise looks equal up to 12,800, at which point the white balance biases it better towards the k-5. At 25,600 it is clear the k-5 is better.
03-06-2012, 10:44 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote


From: DxOMark
Source: DxOMark - Half-cooked RAW
Question is, is it about CCD, CMOS or does it apply for both?
03-06-2012, 10:50 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Thanks, JohnBee. That's quite more substantiation than "appears to apply........"

Pentax K-5 In-depth Review: Digital Photography Review
QuoteQuote:
A closer look at the graphs, though, reveals a clear kink in the K-7's noise graphs at 1600, indicating that the camera applies some noise reduction even to the raw files.
That should be K5 though in that text...
But most reviews wrote about it, and hey it's not my fault they werent more certain ;p
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