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03-04-2012, 10:41 AM - 12 Likes   #1
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K-01 vs K-5 (JPG, DNG, ISO100~25600) - Second Test...

Since last night's test was a bit rush. Tonight I did a similar side by side test again between K-5 and K-01. Just for a reference, I also added Panasonic G3 in the test so I'd see how a smaller sensor compares w/ the bigger APSC sensors.

Here is the testing setup:

1. indoor w/ ceiling light (a bit brighter than last night one so to help w/ manual focus), also around mid night to avoid light changes
2. tripod: Gitzo 1540, ballhead: Markins Q3
3. K-5 and K-01 had FA31 mounted, G3 had Panasonic Leica 25/1.4 on
4. both high ISO noise reduction and long shutter speed noise reduction were disabled on all cameras
5. all lens adjustments were disabled if there is an option there
6. D-range highlight/shadow correction were disabled
7. manual exposure mode was used on K-5 and K-01 so to keep the same exposure settings on both camera , Av mode was used on G3 (the camera has pretty good auto exposure in Av mode, and it's not a priority in this test, so I just let the camera do the job)
8. all cameras set to auto white balance (tried manual white balance, can't get any better colors than auto ones )
9. manual focus was used on K-01 and K-5, w/ focus peaking enabled on K-01 (enlarge 6x w/ FP), used live view w/ 10x zoom to help manual focusing on K-5. A few testing shots were taken and reviewed (enlarged to 16x) on back LCD screen to verify the focusing just to make sure I've done the best on focusing. Auto focus was used on G3 (again, this camera w/ PL25/1.4 just never fails on AF)
10. K-01 and K-5 were set to wireless trigger w/ 3 second timer, G3 was set to 2sec self-timer
11. aperture was set to F5.6 on K-01 and K-5 so to get more DOF and reduce the impact of focusing error. G3 aperture was set to F4 (which is probably the sharpest aperture for PL25/1.4 lens)
12. tested both in JPG and RAW (G3 only tested in RAW), ISO setting:100 (K-5 and K-01 only), 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, 12800 (K-01 and K-5) and 25600 (K-01 and K-5)


From what I can see on my screen, the test results are pretty inline w/ what I got yesterday: photos from K-5 are a tad bit (1/3 to 1/2 stops) brighter than those from K-01 at the same setting, and again, K-01 photos seem a bit sharper (I've tried my best to focus properly on both cameras, and the AF results from K-5 under such light condition just can't compare w/ what I got w/ manual focusing in live view). High ISO noise evel is about the same, except at ISO25600 which K-01 isn't as good as K-5. I guess it's because ISO25600 is the extended ISO on K-01 while K5 ISO can be extended to ISO51200.

High ISO from G3 obvious loses to K-5 and K-01 in details and resolution, especially at ISO3200 and 6400. But it's pretty close or even slightly better at lower ISO (at least to my eyes). I guess the smaller 2x crop sensor isn't too bad at all.

Enough talk. Here I've uploaded all the original files on 4shared. I think you need to register an account (free of course) to download them. It's a free account, I don't know if there is any bandwidth limit. Sorry I can't find a better way to share such big files. File names are very obvious, you won't make mistake w/ the cameras and ISO settings on each photo:

4shared - K5vsK01 - shared folder - free file sharing and storage

There is a video file in there too, probably too short and too badly taken to show how capable this new camera is as a video camera.

Hope these can be some help to some friends who are interested in this new camera.

---------------------------------
Edit: I think most guys here don't really bother downloading all the original photos. Here I made some crops of each photo taken by every camera. The first one is center crop, the second one is crop of the right side. The sequence would be K-5, K01 and G3. All photos were converted from RAW by CS5 RAW Converter at default setting.


Here is the testing scene, taken by K-5, K-01 and G3 respectively:








Here are the center and right side crops:

ISO100, K5 and K-01










ISO200, K5, K-01 and G3














ISO400, K5, K-01 and G3














ISO800, K5, K-01 and G3














ISO1600, K5, K-01 and G3














ISO3200, K5, K-01 and G3














ISO6400, K5, K-01 and G3














ISO12800, K5 and K-01










ISO25600, K5 and K-01










Last edited by frank; 03-06-2012 at 08:17 AM.
03-04-2012, 10:54 AM   #2
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The amount of NR used by mfr engr can vary from one model to the next. Sorry to say it, but i think NR needs to be turned off on both cameras before one can come to a meaningful conclusion.

I would hope that the K01 does show more detail with the NR turned off than the K5, seems like there is a trend to use less of AA filters, at least from Fuji. I'm not at all disappointed with the detail from the K5, but one expects some improvements from model to model.

Phil
03-04-2012, 10:56 AM   #3
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Great

Hi, I'm new to the forum but have been enjoying reading about the K-01s that have been arriving in Singapore. These test images are fantastic. I am looking at a complement/replacement (?) to my K20D and it's a toss-up between the Sony NEX-5N and the K-01 depending on its performance and size/weight.

I doubt I'd ever shoot at 3200 let alone 12800, so I was pixel peeping the 1600 and 3200 shots. I was focusing on the spot on the wine bottle near the neck where the label is. In the 100-1600 shots there is a blemish on the label that is pretty sharp, at 3200 it's a bit smeared. Overall though, they are nice samples. It gives me quite a bit of confidence if I were to shoot low-light at 1600 or even 3200 with some of my primes.

I'm looking forward to the K-01's North American arrival so I can give it feel in my hands.

Thanks for posting the samples!
03-04-2012, 11:01 AM   #4
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Thanks, again, for all the hard work to help us all know more about the latest Pentax offering! +1 to you!

03-04-2012, 11:03 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
The amount of NR used by mfr engr can vary from one model to the next. Sorry to say it, but i think NR needs to be turned off on both cameras before one can come to a meaningful conclusion.

I would hope that the K01 does show more detail with the NR turned off than the K5, seems like there is a trend to use less of AA filters, at least from Fuji. I'm not at all disappointed with the detail from the K5, but one expects some improvements from model to model.

Phil
I agree the NR should be set off. But I already tested K-5 and uploaded the results. It's after midnight, too late to do it all over again. so I just set those to AUTO on K-01 as well. My bad I guess...
03-04-2012, 11:32 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
I agree the NR should be set off. But I already tested K-5 and uploaded the results. It's after midnight, too late to do it all over again. so I just set those to AUTO on K-01 as well. My bad I guess...
Hi Frank,

If you're interested in shooting RAW samples, I'd be more than happy to provide the space to store and host the files.

Nevermind, I accidentally hit the JPG links thinking they were the DNG's. Working great btw!


JohnB

PS. is it me or does it look like there's shutter blur on the ISO100 K-5 images?

Last edited by JohnBee; 03-04-2012 at 12:11 PM.
03-04-2012, 12:56 PM   #7
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Oops

after equalizing the images to the same light level. the K-5 is almost one step ahead in noise performance IMO. The magenta cast at high ISO is really what does it.
The K-01 is simply running out of range, you can begin to see the difference in the ISO 800 images. in the DNGs , its about the same performance as the Sony NEX5n.
So simply put, its not the same performance as the K-5.
Although one element that does bug me is that they were not shot with the lens wide open, which invites exposure error, but the K-01 image is less exposed than the K-5 at the same settings.
03-04-2012, 02:38 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I would hope that the K01 does show more detail with the NR turned off than the K5, seems like there is a trend to use less of AA filters, at least from Fuji. I'm not at all disappointed with the detail from the K5, but one expects some improvements from model to model
With the ISO100 RAW samples I wasn't able to tell any difference between the two units in most areas(1:1) though in others it looks as though the K-5 seems to retain slightly more contrast detail, but I couldn't tell if this is due to optical performances or just random variances between the shots. Either way, I couldn't find anything worth mentioning, which seems odd compared to the JPG images in which the K-5 appears very soft against the K-01 imo.


Last edited by JohnBee; 03-04-2012 at 03:42 PM.
03-04-2012, 03:13 PM   #9
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Nice work Frank! Thanks for doing this.
03-04-2012, 05:05 PM   #10
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Well these images are surtainly not disapointing! Great work Frank!
03-04-2012, 07:57 PM   #11
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Thanks guys.

I think I'm gonna redo the testing again tonight after I put the kids to sleep. This round I'd switch off the NR that's for sure, and I'll try to focus better on K-5.

There is one thing I need you guys opinion: should I test w/ the same exposure setting (for both cameras) as I did last night or shall I add a bit of EV for the K-01 so to brighten up the results to match those from K-5? I feel it's unfair to compare the results when the K-01 photos look a bit darker than the K-5 ones. I've compared both cameras side by side w/ different lenses, with the same settings, the photos from K-01 are indeed 1/3 to 1/2 darker than those from K-5. As to white balance, I think I'd still leave it at AWB 'cause that's the one most users (including me myself) use most the time ...
03-04-2012, 08:12 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Thanks guys.

I think I'm gonna redo the testing again tonight after I put the kids to sleep. This round I'd switch off the NR that's for sure, and I'll try to focus better on K-5.

There is one thing I need you guys opinion: should I test w/ the same exposure setting (for both cameras) as I did last night or shall I add a bit of EV for the K-01 so to brighten up the results to match those from K-5? I feel it's unfair to compare the results when the K-01 photos look a bit darker than the K-5 ones. I've compared both cameras side by side w/ different lenses, with the same settings, the photos from K-01 are indeed 1/3 to 1/2 darker than those from K-5. As to white balance, I think I'd still leave it at AWB 'cause that's the one most users (including me myself) use most the time ...

Its really lots of hard work!
My sincere thanks for the evaluations.
I shudder to think of myself doing these tests on limited personal time.


Just my few cents, and as you know, I very far from an expert on such things.
No right or wrong to leaving exposure AS IS or Adjusting it up as you are thinking of doing. (can't please everyone)

AS IS, may just mean the actual ISO setting on the K5 and K-01 is different. (eg. ISO 200 is really 250 in K5 and 180 on K-01)
Won't know unless we use a light meter to determine true exposure.
So using exposure AS IS, just means that K-01 and K5 would do exposure differently in real world usage.

Adjusting exposure to match, would perhaps me more representative of camera performance at actual similar ISO (exposure).
But then again, in real usage, the user will never know or remember that "Oh, I should really use ISO 320 on K-01, to be the same as ISO200 on K5")
03-04-2012, 08:32 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Just now I did some side by side comparison between these two cameras. Here are the setup/settings:
Thank you very much..K-01 is sharper than K-5 in DNG too. I like it.
It's better choice for my FA*24/2 for landscapes.
03-04-2012, 08:36 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Thanks guys.

I think I'm gonna redo the testing again tonight after I put the kids to sleep. This round I'd switch off the NR that's for sure, and I'll try to focus better on K-5.

There is one thing I need you guys opinion: should I test w/ the same exposure setting (for both cameras) as I did last night or shall I add a bit of EV for the K-01 so to brighten up the results to match those from K-5? I feel it's unfair to compare the results when the K-01 photos look a bit darker than the K-5 ones. I've compared both cameras side by side w/ different lenses, with the same settings, the photos from K-01 are indeed 1/3 to 1/2 darker than those from K-5. As to white balance, I think I'd still leave it at AWB 'cause that's the one most users (including me myself) use most the time ...
I've found that the only way to truly match output from camera's in cases such as these is to shoot in full manual.
Same goes for WB which can really throw things off. And so I use a manual WB card to calibrate both units.
This way you can fine-tune each unit to an exact match without any of the complications that arise from using +/- eV, aperture settings etc.

PS. did you use mirror-up with you're shots on the K-5? the ISO100 looks as though there might of been some movement in the scene. - I've found that using a remote with timer helps avoid such things.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Thank you very much..K-01 is sharper than K-5 in DNG too. I like it.
It's better choice for my FA*24/2 for landscapes.
It would appear that way at first, though I wasn't able to extract any more detail from the K-01 than with the K-5 after PP on the ISO100 files. How about yourself?
Using Raw Therapee on both files btw.

Last edited by JohnBee; 03-04-2012 at 09:32 PM.
03-04-2012, 08:42 PM   #15
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Wow, tx for all that effort. I am sooo impressed by both cameras actually. Nice to see how equally good both cameras are, and coming from K10D I am absolutely impressed about the ease to remove noise at ISO3200 (using Neat Image), which after processing looks as good as ISO400 on my K10D. Not sure how much longer I can wait ;-)

If I may only make one suggestion, perhaps in future settings you should include an element with fine details (e.g. fabric) to visualize the effect of Noise Removal. Tx again for all your effort, the whole Pentax community it thankful.

Last edited by regor; 03-06-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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