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03-11-2012, 08:41 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That is a real and reasonable question. So far none of the few members who has a K-01 has yet to comment on that limitation - that I have seen. I wear a hat with a wide brim (to shield my bald pate from sun) that I expect will solve that problem.
Adam addressed it in his video review intro posted last night, and I've mentioned it in passing. I had it out on a day where there was lots of winds and the sun was coming in and out constantly. While the sun was out, it was no different from using my iPhone, but since I haven't been in a situation where it's a cloudless day and there's a lot of glare, I can't say yet for certain.

QuoteQuote:
One thing almost no one has discerned yet is how to hold the camera. Many immediately imagine it must be held like a compact Point-and-Shoot (and they sneer at that). Rather, the camera should be held like an SLR was held in the film days - cradled in the left palm, arms in at the sides, strong body position, raised to just BELOW eye level. There should be no "holding at arms' length" weight problem.
IMO, holding it like a film SLR is the way to go and you definitely wouldn't want to hold it like a point-and-shoot unless you're a big fan of causing massive pain and fatigue in your arms. The only thing I differ with you in your recommendations is the distance at which it should be held from the face. I think I read 6" - 8" away? I suspect this is something that will vary according to the individual user, but I've been holding it about half that distance, generally. It feels more comfortable when it's not more than 5" from my eyes. But again, I think individual comfort levels will come into play here.

03-11-2012, 08:48 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
[EDIT] Here's a more tame post from just a few minutes ago that illustrates our point about the tone of PF recently. Pentax can't be a "serious" camera company because colored cameras aren't "serious" cameras. Ergo, a K-01 user can't be a serious photographer, HEE Hee Hah Hah - look, a K-01.
Thanks for the good answer about the viewfinder. That's the sort of answer I've come to expect around here until recently anyway.

Interesting about the coloured cameras. I don't think I'd personally want one (however, my favourite colour is yellow and I keep looking at that yellow & black one and thinking, hmmmm) but if that's what the customer wants then I see no reason why Pentax shouldn't market it. Why ARE most cameras black or black & silver anyway?
03-11-2012, 09:25 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by mtansley Quote
Thanks for the good answer about the viewfinder. That's the sort of answer I've come to expect around here until recently anyway.

Interesting about the coloured cameras. I don't think I'd personally want one (however, my favourite colour is yellow and I keep looking at that yellow & black one and thinking, hmmmm) but if that's what the customer wants then I see no reason why Pentax shouldn't market it. Why ARE most cameras black or black & silver anyway?
While personally I prefer my cameras to be black (I just don't like to draw attention), I suspect there is nothing more at work here other than tradition and momentum.

You know, if one goes back all the way to the early days of this forum, there has always been a contingent that has responded badly to anything new - including APS-C digital SLRs. This is NOT meant to be a blanket statement and I do NOT mean to flame anyone. But, at the heart of it, there is a sizeable part of the photographic world (and this goes for other brands as well) that is simply terrified of change. This can be said of humans in general but it seems to be particularly bad in our hobby.

At the end of the day, they're basically saying "But that's not the way it's always been done!" I wonder what their response to the advent of the original SLR - or even 35mm film - would have been if they were around for that. And fear historically has brought out the worst in irrational human behavior and group-think. Which may account for the vitriol and nasty PMs. They may act superior and condesending, but they may be experiencing stark terror - whether they admit it to themselves or not.

That doesn't mean everyone has to like the K-01, the Q or any other camera. There may be legitimate reasons for not taking to them. I'm talking about the nastiness.

The K-01 seems fine in terms of image quality and focus speed. And, if one is honest with one's self, size really isn't an issue, either. But I personally need to know how the LCD performs in bright sunlight simply because there's no EVF as a back up. I just wish those who own or have access to a K-01 would come out and directly discuss this part of the camera experience.

Last edited by Biro; 03-11-2012 at 09:38 AM.
03-11-2012, 09:29 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
The K-01 seems fine in terms of image quality and focus speed. And, if one is honest with one's self, size really isn't an issue, either. But I personally need to know how the LCD performs in bright sunlight simply because there's no EVF as a back up. I just wish those who own or have access to a K-01 would come out and directly discuss this part of the camera experience.
Well, it's a bright and sunny day here, and I am about to take it to a family gathering, so you can be sure I will give an honest assessment when I return.

03-11-2012, 10:37 AM   #50
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Thank you for the civil tone - much more in the tradition of this Forum. Another element of the alternative format cameras (and the premium-priced Special and Limited Edition cameras) is the profit available from selling them. Suppose Pentax actually retains $765 per unit of a Limited Edition silver body @1500 units (I have no idea what the cost of the actual inputs is and I'm not cost-accounting development expenses and other accruals). That's $1,150,000, about 1% of the purchase price of Pentax - in a collector item that will sell out in Japan alone!! How many engineers might that buy for one or two years? Suppose Pentax actually retains $200/K-01 Kit sold, and sells 100,000 of them - that's $20,000,000. Ricoh only paid about $115,000,000 for Pentax. Good grief - they could net-return 1/6 of the purchase price on this camera, alone.

One hopes (and I believe this is the case) Ricoh plows that revenue back into dSLR development. The long-term problem is they have to get permanent cash flow back up to support ongoing marketing, service and development expenses. That won't be easy with Canon and Nikon releasing all tier bodies and Oly, Fuji, Sony and Nikon competing in the high quality MILC space.
03-11-2012, 11:06 AM   #51
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I'm glad this thread was started. I pulled myself out of a thread because I was getting worked up into a lather about a few people's opinion of the fans and users of the k-01. One kept going on and on about how it was a mistake, that it would never draw people to pentax, etc. When I pointed out that it was bringing me back to Pentax, I didn't matter, it was still a mistake. Ok, not the end of the world, but aggravating. Then someone else essentially said that people were happy with inferior products and the k-01 shows that. The clear implication was that the users were idiots.

For the people worried about future Pentax SLRs, didn't you watch the interview with the Pentax guy? If I remember correctly, he affirmed that the SLRs were very important to Pentax. There certainly wash''t any hint of them abandoning them.

I think once more and more people start shooting with the k-01 and start posting pictures, etc. the comments will stop being hypothetical in nature. In other words, the k-01 forum will be filled with people that own and are interested in the k-01, imagine that! If you're not interested in the k-01, why even go to a k-01 forum let alone proclaim your indifference/dislike of it? Once we have more users of the camera in the forum, the k-01 will become just another camera. The only complaints you'll hear about it in the k-01 will be from owners with legitimate gripes, not "This camera isn't for me." Do people still go into the Q forum and just talk smack about it? Why waste your time?
03-11-2012, 11:13 AM   #52
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Why worked up and get upset if someone hates your camera? I mean, really, its an inanimate object, who cares? It's not like people are hating your child.
03-11-2012, 11:20 AM - 1 Like   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Why worked up and get upset if someone hates your camera? I mean, really, its an inanimate object, who cares? It's not like people are hating your child.
You're right, there is no reason to get upset because someone doesn't like the same camera you do, however:

A) It is only natural to get upset when the clear implication is made that only idiots or unserious photographers would like the camera when don't feel you belong to either group and like the camera and
B) It is also natural to get aggravated when people insist on putting in their 2 cents into a conversation that doesn't involve their opinions of the camera.

Like I said, avoid being boorish and everything is fine. Most people are being decent I think, but the ones that aren't really are annoying. This thread didn't pop up out of nowhere...

03-11-2012, 11:26 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Why worked up and get upset if someone hates your camera? I mean, really, its an inanimate object, who cares? It's not like people are hating your child.
It may be silly to get aggravated by a small thing like this, but why should we let people insult what we use? We see people on this forum get aggravated when they hear people say "oh, your k-5 isn't good enough, it's not a CaNikon", and all of us agree that the k-5 can do amazing things that puts it on par with the equivalents from CaNikon. And now there's a divide on this forum where people are saying "oh, your K-01 isn't good enough, it's not a k-5" - and yet for all intents and purposes, it seems to perform almost as well, it's priced nicely, it's got quite a few fans, it's filling a gap that was always asked for on this forum (a mirrorless that isn't the Q, and don't get me started on the mockery of the Q on this forum), users who have the camera currently have almost all agreed that it's quite good.

If no one cared about their camera to argue against detractors, why do we sit on this forum and chitchat anyways then?
03-11-2012, 11:33 AM   #55
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I think I stopped worrying about the direction Pentax was going, with the K-5. What alot of ragging we had here in PF when (in addition to all else), spots were discovered in the K-5. Had I taken it all seriously at the time, I would have dumped the K-5 and gone to another brand. As it is, I returned one K-5 for spotting, and have since enjoyed using my second K-5 immensely. It is undoubtedly, the best camera I have ever owned. Within the past year I sold a K-x, and recently purchased a K-01. Sure, there are some problems and things I don't really like about the K-01, most of which I immediately aired here on PF. But for almost a week now I have been shooting every day with the K-01 and have found it to be a fun and interesting camera. In fact, while my origional plans were to use it for video and shooting wildlife with a big lens & tripod, I have had so much enjoyment just shooting the 40mm XS - handheld. (OMG) The K-01 even outshines the K-5 sometimes, in the images it produces. (Now don't go taking me to task, this is solely my impression) A full frame from Pentax would be nice, but until then, I'm just having a ball with the cameras Pentax has already provided me.
03-11-2012, 11:35 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
It may be silly to get aggravated by a small thing like this, but why should we let people insult what we use? We see people on this forum get aggravated when they hear people say "oh, your k-5 isn't good enough, it's not a CaNikon", and all of us agree that the k-5 can do amazing things that puts it on par with the equivalents from CaNikon. And now there's a divide on this forum where people are saying "oh, your K-01 isn't good enough, it's not a k-5" - and yet for all intents and purposes, it seems to perform almost as well, it's priced nicely, it's got quite a few fans, it's filling a gap that was always asked for on this forum (a mirrorless that isn't the Q, and don't get me started on the mockery of the Q on this forum), users who have the camera currently have almost all agreed that it's quite good.

If no one cared about their camera to argue against detractors, why do we sit on this forum and chitchat anyways then?
It's one thing to point out the positives of your camera purchase and defend your position...its another to get upset over it. If your bloodpressure rises because someone says something not nice about your camera, then you need to learn how to relax and not take trivial matters so seriously. Life is too short.

By the way I am not singling you out or saying you personalally take it too seriously. But I have seen people react to someone putting down their camera in the same way one would act if their mom was called fat.
03-11-2012, 11:48 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
But I have seen people react to someone putting down their camera in the same way one would act if their mom was called fat.
My mom is fat. It is OK with me if someone describes her that way. Call her by her name though. It is Twiggie.
03-11-2012, 11:53 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
It's one thing to point out the positives of your camera purchase and defend your position...its another to get upset over it. If your bloodpressure rises because someone says something not nice about your camera, then you need to learn how to relax and not take trivial matters so seriously. Life is too short.

By the way I am not singling you out or saying you personalally take it too seriously. But I have seen people react to someone putting down their camera in the same way one would act if their mom was called fat.
See? Another example of a Forum member telling a poster (and me) what he (and I) should do (don't get stressed). Stick to photography. Leave the psychology and social engineering to other Forums. (well, only partially winking. I'm sort of serious, too).

Last edited by monochrome; 03-11-2012 at 12:09 PM.
03-11-2012, 11:57 AM   #59
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cali92rs, I worry, I suppose, because I see a false notion gaining traction. Specifically, the idea that the K-01 is a substandard camera, meant only for beginners, unusable to some. A widely-spread reputation of that sort will drive potential buyers away from the camera, even away from the Pentax brand itself.

This is not about me or my feelings. Personally, I could feel some egotistical pride in being able to recognize value where so many others are blind to it, but I would prefer that this camera does well so that, as others have mentioned above, Pentax gains the revenue required to further R&D and expand their product line. Isn't that something we all want?

Last edited by mervis; 03-11-2012 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Clarity
03-11-2012, 12:05 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by DigiMack Quote
(OMG) The K-01 even outshines the K-5 sometimes, in the images it produces. (Now don't go taking me to task, this is solely my impression)
Ahhh, you dare to criticise my K-5 personally? How dare you. It takes the best photos ever!!

<----- Note smiling face please!

Seriously, do you notice the lack of viewfinder to be of any major concern in any way? I guess at the moment that's my biggest (probably totally unfounded) concern.
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