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03-23-2012, 07:18 AM   #46
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So the most well known camera testing people around are critical of a compact camera,
and we have a conspiracy theory lol.
It just comes accross as sour grapes to me.
Depreview do a fantastic and totaly unbiased job to me.
It has been my experiance that anything they have said about a camera, good or bad,
that If and when Ive bought that camera Ive always picked up on the good and bad of
the things they mentioned. Class A makes perfect sense to me too. As if Amazon wouldnt want to sell as many units as possable of anything.
Depreveiw perform the most in depth tests Ive ever seen.
I could understand shouting biased etc if nikon owned the site lol.

03-23-2012, 07:34 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
So the most well known camera testing people around are critical of a compact camera,
and we have a conspiracy theory lol.
It just comes accross as sour grapes to me.
Depreview do a fantastic and totaly unbiased job to me.
It has been my experiance that anything they have said about a camera, good or bad,
that If and when Ive bought that camera Ive always picked up on the good and bad of
the things they mentioned. Class A makes perfect sense to me too. As if Amazon wouldnt want to sell as many units as possable of anything.
Depreveiw perform the most in depth tests Ive ever seen.
I could understand shouting biased etc if nikon owned the site lol.
concerning my comments, they have nothing to do with the K-01 preview. in fact, I've never read it, so I don't know what it says or doesn't say, and frankly I don't much care. my comments (apparently you didn't read them at all) are all about the connection to amazon, and the fact that they have given rather washy reviews and have shown a bias towards brands on many occasions. if you think they are completely unbiased, then I challenge how many reviews you've actually read. ill say it again, there is only on real reason a company like amazon would own a site like DPR. you do the math. this has nothing to do with the K-01 in particular. I kindly ask you to reread my comments, especially if you think class-A's comments make an sense. they just don't. you clearly like DPR, so you are going to defend them. I don't like or dislike them in particular either way. I've never trusted them really, but I don't trust any review sites because nobody does any solid real world testing. Amazon would want to sell what it knows will sell. you've never worked in retail have you? you push products you know have a wider audience, you push products you know are more anticipated and that goes for brands in general. it would be financially beneficial to amazon to sell more nikons and canon than pentax. they would simply make more money. that has nothing to do with not wanting to sell pentax (which is what you seem to be saying) just to push other brands.

I've never outright accused them of this, in fact I've never outright accused DPR of anything, what I'm saying, is that its unlikely given the ownership, that there isn't something going on. therefore I don't trust them and I think thats justified, and I have given my reason as to why I think that is. you can agree or disagree, just don't misunderstand what I have said. I hardy think 'conspiracy theory' fits. there is sufficient evidence in the past (and not with just pentax cameras) of ratings that don't match reviews and reviews where misinformation was posted and had to be corrected when pointed out, there is long standing bias towards pentax precisely because they do things different (I don't think thats relevant reviewing point personally and clearly shows bias, because each camera should be reviewed for itself not what DPR thinks it is or should be. but I get thats a personal opinion.) which has lead to pentax and other cameras to be cast in a bad light by DPR, where anyone without bias could clearly see that shouldn't be the case. again, I understand not everyone will agree, and thats fine, I just think with amazon owning them, that leaves a lot of questions of legitimacy and purpose.

Last edited by séamuis; 03-23-2012 at 07:44 AM.
03-23-2012, 07:39 AM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
So the most well known camera testing people around are critical of a compact camera,
and we have a conspiracy theory lol.
It just comes accross as sour grapes to me.
Depreview do a fantastic and totaly unbiased job to me.
It has been my experiance that anything they have said about a camera, good or bad,
that If and when Ive bought that camera Ive always picked up on the good and bad of
the things they mentioned. Class A makes perfect sense to me too. As if Amazon wouldnt want to sell as many units as possable of anything.
Depreveiw perform the most in depth tests Ive ever seen.
I could understand shouting biased etc if nikon owned the site lol.
My immediate statement that they handled themselves pretty well in response to their error has changed.

For all the claims of integrity, in-depth reviews, independence and all things good there is the rejoinder, "How could they make so many simplle, basic and absolutely damning mistakers in the Preview?"

It was hasty, sloppy, inattentive and plain incorrect. That fact does not live up to the standard you claim. The Preview writer's excuses lack courage. Andy Westlake's weasely defense of him and the preview is hollow and self-centered. These are character flaws I have sensed at DPReview over the six or seven years I have read their website. I'm not surprised. That's about what I would expect.

They screwed up. They should immediately, openly and publicly apologise to their readers and to Pentax and should personally apologize to Ned Bunnell and John Carlson.

Otherwise they show they are hacks - and possibly flacks.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-23-2012 at 07:45 AM.
03-23-2012, 07:52 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My immediate statement that they handled themselves pretty well in response to their error has changed.

For all the claims of integrity, in-depth reviews, independence and all things good there is the rejoinder, "How could they make so many simplle, basic and absolutely damning mistakers in the Preview?"

It was hasty, sloppy, inattentive and plain incorrect. That fact does not live up to the standard you claim. The Preview writer's excuses lack courage. Andy Westlake's weasely defense of him and the preview is hollow and self-centered. These are character flaws I have sensed at DPReview over the six or seven years I have read their website. I'm not surprised. That's about what I would expect.

They screwed up. They should immediately, openly and publicly apologise to their readers and to Pentax and should personally apologize to Ned Bunnell and John Carlson.

Otherwise they show they are hacks - and possibly flacks.
Please add to that their selective deleting of comments in the public comments section. It shows a lack of spine IMHO to do so without any meaningful reason whatsoever (no profanity, vulgarity, etc.). I'd call the behavior on this one childish if that weren't an insult to most children.

03-23-2012, 08:02 AM   #50
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DPR and bias

DPR and bias are close friends.

last year i read a small article in which author said that your writing reflects what type of person you are for example if you are a lecher your writing will be full of words that hint that you are a lecher.

Same with DPR their preview reviews reek of their bias.

K-01 preview and before that Q , they can not help it. Long time ago they had bias against sony too (and few other small brands) but once sony gave them cold shoulder and after that somehow they are good to sony now.


They pretend that they are neutral or simply they are incapable of spotting that they actually have bias.

My opinion is that if your profession demands that you should be neutral then you have to be neutral. But it is difficult thing to do.
03-23-2012, 08:17 AM   #51
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Original Poster
I, for one, never said DPR is biased or dishonest. My feeling is that the editorial staff suffers from groupthink and lack of imagination. They were clearly flummoxed by a product that breaks the mold and chose to emphasize what is different about the K-01 over its many good points. And as monochrome so eloquently stated, a large established organization letting such a poorly-crafted article out the door is just inexcusable. That was my motive for starting this thread.

They've done a neat job of correcting now and the original will disappear down the memory hole. Don't hold you breath waiting for an apology.

Last edited by mervis; 03-23-2012 at 08:53 AM.
03-23-2012, 08:39 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My immediate statement that they handled themselves pretty well in response to their error has changed.

For all the claims of integrity, in-depth reviews, independence and all things good there is the rejoinder, "How could they make so many simplle, basic and absolutely damning mistakers in the Preview?"

It was hasty, sloppy, inattentive and plain incorrect. That fact does not live up to the standard you claim. The Preview writer's excuses lack courage. Andy Westlake's weasely defense of him and the preview is hollow and self-centered. These are character flaws I have sensed at DPReview over the six or seven years I have read their website. I'm not surprised. That's about what I would expect.

They screwed up. They should immediately, openly and publicly apologise to their readers and to Pentax and should personally apologize to Ned Bunnell and John Carlson.

Otherwise they show they are hacks - and possibly flacks.
Yes I know and understand your veiwpoint.
I cant help thinking... look at how long they have been going and how many tests they have carried out etc.
I just cant see it as anything more than a genuine mistake though. I think most people too are aware that its just a reveiw that you might gain facts from, but at the end of the day its still just one persons opinion.
And yes ! They made a right hash of it orignaly.
They did correct it very quickly though, and it was just the first hands on and not the test itself.
They are only human after all.
They did appologise too and tried to explain how it happned. No matter how I see this we all know too,
that if it had a great reveiw no one would be saying any of these things. I think in line of there blunder has been a bit like adding salt to the wound for a lot of people.
All Im saying is realy, is thats its ridiculous to start talking about things like depreveiw being biased all because they messed up once.
03-23-2012, 08:57 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
Amazon would want to sell what it knows will sell. you've never worked in retail have you? you push products you know have a wider audience, you push products you know are more anticipated and that goes for brands in general. it would be financially beneficial to amazon to sell more nikons and canon than pentax. they would simply make more money. that has nothing to do with not wanting to sell pentax (which is what you seem to be saying) just to push other brands.
Do you suppose Amazon gets a volume pricing advantage from Canon or Nikon? Might that be a reason to steer potential buyers to one brand and away from another brand, such as Pentax?

03-23-2012, 09:06 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Do you suppose Amazon gets a volume pricing advantage from Canon or Nikon? Might that be a reason to steer potential buyers to one brand and away from another brand, such as Pentax?
I really do not know, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. we all know that pentax's current way of doing business doesn't make them very popular with retailers. thats common knowledge at this point. and is the reason behind many stores not offering many or any pentax products at all. again, I don't claim to know what amazon does or doesn't do, nor have I claimed to know that they infact use DPR to their advantage. but common sense will tell you that there is only one reason to own a site like DPR, and amazon is in business to make money. its also common sense that amazon will make more money off of brands such as nikon, canon and sony than they will off of pentax. when you combine that with DPR's reputation and somewhat sketchy reviews as many have attested to not only here in this thread but many others, and on different forums, and with other smaller brands besides pentax, it should give a person reason to pause and consider.

wether the K-01 preview falls into this I don't know and don't claim it to do. for all I know this could have just simply been a mistake. my whole point though is that a company like amazon owning a site like DPR leaves me not trusting them, and I wasn't very trusting before. everything is just pure speculation, but there are things such as common sense and 2+2 for a reason.
03-23-2012, 09:16 AM   #55
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Anyone correct me if Im wrong, because I dont know..... but Im guessing that amazon sponser depreview and not own them. If thats the case, there is a huge differance.
Either way.... I would also assume its down to Tax evasion related.
Companys often create sponcerships rather than give it the Tax man.
03-23-2012, 09:21 AM   #56
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Why ask for somebody to correct you when you can Google it yourself? Anyway:

Amazon.com acquires dpreview.com: Digital Photography Review

Outright owns.
03-23-2012, 09:26 AM   #57
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Why google when I can simply ask ?
Thats that theory out the window then anyway lol.
03-23-2012, 09:38 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
Why google when I can simply ask ?
Thats that theory out the window then anyway lol.
because you should be willing to find out yourself, especially if you had already defended DPR against accusation by calling them 'conspiracy theory' when the information to prove that Amazon owns DPR is at your fingertips. that doesn't prove anything outright, I think we all know that, and I don't mean any offense here, but the old saying 'take initiative' applies.
03-23-2012, 10:12 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
because you should be willing to find out yourself, especially if you had already defended DPR against accusation by calling them 'conspiracy theory' when the information to prove that Amazon owns DPR is at your fingertips. that doesn't prove anything outright, I think we all know that, and I don't mean any offense here, but the old saying 'take initiative' applies.
Talk about trivia lol I had a thought and wrote it down and it seems I found the information rather quickly.
So it seems I did use some initiative.
I was simply pointing out a possability of why Amazon would want to own depreveiw.
I made it clear I didnt know but gave food for more thought.
I couldnt give a rats ass if they do or dont. I care even less as to wether or not you think I should be googling stuff lol
I also dont recal stating it proves anything. if it had turned out that they had just been sponsers it would have made a big differance.
But thats not the case... So if pigs had wings !

Last edited by westmill; 03-23-2012 at 10:28 AM.
03-23-2012, 11:16 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
Yes I know and understand your veiwpoint.
I cant help thinking... look at how long they have been going and how many tests they have carried out etc.
They have a reputation to protect. Lack of care and attention to detail can be a reputation destroyer.
QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
I just cant see it as anything more than a genuine mistake though.
I might be inclined to grant them the benefit of the doubt - at first I was - were it not so apparent that they got caught posting a hasty, ill researched and basically incorrect Preview of a new product releassed by a valid and long-term industry purveyor - nay, the #3 ILC camera maker.
QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
I think most people too are aware that its just a reveiw that you might gain facts from, but at the end of the day its still just one persons opinion.
You just reaffirmed my point - the preview isn't opinion, it is facts. There can be no opinion because there has been no test. They got the basic facts wrong because they were sloppy, inattentive and hasty. Given DPR's influence they could very well have killed the product through their own shoddy work, which is worse than prejudice.
QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
And yes ! They made a right hash of it orignaly.
They did correct it very quickly though, and it was just the first hands on and not the test itself.
They are only human after all.
They did appologise too and tried to explain how it happned. No matter how I see this we all know too,
that if it had a great reveiw no one would be saying any of these things. I think in line of there blunder has been a bit like adding salt to the wound for a lot of people.
Huh?
QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
All Im saying is realy, is thats its ridiculous to start talking about things like depreveiw being biased all because they messed up once.
I've not said they are biased. I've said they are lazy, inattentive hacks who got basic facts wrong in a front page Preview article on a product made by a company they don't care about. But I never said they are biased.
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