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04-02-2012, 07:48 AM   #46
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I tried yet again in full manual exposure, and a soon as the flash opens, the shutter speed drops to 1/180 or lower. There's no way to get a shutter speed above 1/180s with the on-board flash, meaning you can't do fill flash with the on-board flash. So, I guess it's not a bug. It's a missing feature in my book. For a snapshot camera, I think it's something that would be nice to have.

04-02-2012, 08:03 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfortson Quote
I tried yet again in full manual exposure, and a soon as the flash opens, the shutter speed drops to 1/180 or lower. There's no way to get a shutter speed above 1/180s with the on-board flash, meaning you can't do fill flash with the on-board flash. So, I guess it's not a bug. It's a missing feature in my book. For a snapshot camera, I think it's something that would be nice to have.
I tried it also with the same result. Didn't have time to try with the AF360FGZ to see if that will help. I'll be surprised if they thought fill flash isn't a necessary feature for this camera. Have you tried fill-flash any scene modes yet?
04-02-2012, 08:46 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfortson Quote
I tried yet again in full manual exposure, and a soon as the flash opens, the shutter speed drops to 1/180 or lower. There's no way to get a shutter speed above 1/180s with the on-board flash, meaning you can't do fill flash with the on-board flash. So, I guess it's not a bug. It's a missing feature in my book. For a snapshot camera, I think it's something that would be nice to have.
180 is the maximimum flash sync setting. You can set a slower speed but not a higher speed. Unless you have high speed flash sync built into the camera.
Which allows any speed to be used.
Any camera should be capable of fill flash. Its genraly desirable to set about minus 1 too 2 stops on the flash though, which most cameras do automaticly if they have a fill option. Tv mode will prob be your best option.
Then you can pick a shutterspeed upto your 180 sync speed and the camera will then select the correct aprature. If the camera doesnt have a fill option built in you can buy a flash like a metz 50 and its very simple to set minus 2 stops.
04-02-2012, 09:12 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
180 is the maximimum flash sync setting. You can set a slower speed but not a higher speed. Unless you have high speed flash sync built into the camera.
Which allows any speed to be used.
Any camera should be capable of fill flash. Its genraly desirable to set about minus 1 too 2 stops on the flash though, which most cameras do automaticly if they have a fill option. Tv mode will prob be your best option.
Then you can pick a shutterspeed upto your 180 sync speed and the camera will then select the correct aprature. If the camera doesnt have a fill option built in you can buy a flash like a metz 50 and its very simple to set minus 2 stops.
Yeah, I can do it with a hot shoe flash and HSS, but that kind of defeats the purpose of a small package. I finally broke down and read the manual. There's no exposure mode allows a shutter speed faster than 1/180s with the flash up, regardless of setting.

When I'm out with the family, it's usually during the middle of the day and a touch of flash on a bright scene (think 1/500 or 1/1000s shutter speeds) can light up the shadows on faces. I've done this with P&S cameras, and I miss it on the K-01. Apparently, I've been missing it on the K5 as well, but TBH, I haven't specifically checked.

04-02-2012, 09:42 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfortson Quote
Yeah, I can do it with a hot shoe flash and HSS, but that kind of defeats the purpose of a small package. I finally broke down and read the manual. There's no exposure mode allows a shutter speed faster than 1/180s with the flash up, regardless of setting.

When I'm out with the family, it's usually during the middle of the day and a touch of flash on a bright scene (think 1/500 or 1/1000s shutter speeds) can light up the shadows on faces. I've done this with P&S cameras, and I miss it on the K-01. Apparently, I've been missing it on the K5 as well, but TBH, I haven't specifically checked.

1/180 is the fastest shutter speed that has the entire frame exposed at once in the k-01. It's a limitation of a focal plane shutter. Some external flashes have a strobing mode that allows them to use higher shutter speeds but it needs to be synched with the camera system. Point and shoot cameras use a leaf shutter in the lens instead of a focal plane shutter. As soon as the shutter opens, it exposes the entire sensor, that's why you can have flash sync at all speeds. Usually, at least with larger lenses, leaf shutters are limited at the top speeds. In smaller cameras, the shutter also does double duty as the aperture aperture as well. It's all about compromises...

Speaking of compromises, would it be possible to ratchet down the ISO and stop down the lens to get the shutter speed low enough to use flash sync? The good old sunny 16 rule says that you should expect 1/100 at f16 with ISO 100 in full daylight. Does the k-01 have any neutral density features?
04-02-2012, 09:51 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by isaacc7 Quote
1/180 is the fastest shutter speed that has the entire frame exposed at once in the k-01. It's a limitation of a focal plane shutter. Some external flashes have a strobing mode that allows them to use higher shutter speeds but it needs to be synched with the camera system. Point and shoot cameras use a leaf shutter in the lens instead of a focal plane shutter. As soon as the shutter opens, it exposes the entire sensor, that's why you can have flash sync at all speeds. Usually, at least with larger lenses, leaf shutters are limited at the top speeds. In smaller cameras, the shutter also does double duty as the aperture aperture as well. It's all about compromises...

Speaking of compromises, would it be possible to ratchet down the ISO and stop down the lens to get the shutter speed low enough to use flash sync? The good old sunny 16 rule says that you should expect 1/100 at f16 with ISO 100 in full daylight. Does the k-01 have any neutral density features?
I'm sure it could be done. I may just need to invest in some decent ND filters and get used to them. I'm just stuck in the mindset of shallow depth of field/open aperture.
04-02-2012, 10:41 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfortson Quote
I'm sure it could be done. I may just need to invest in some decent ND filters and get used to them. I'm just stuck in the mindset of shallow depth of field/open aperture.
I get better results with fill flash using centre weighted metering rather than matrix. Also... In your mode options, is there a red cross setting for X sync ?
If so... Try using it with centre weight metering.
Also.... when you go into your flash settings,
IE red eye etc... Check at the bottom of the screen !
If its like the K5 there is an adjustment for altering flash exposure. You alter it by turning the rear dial on the K5.
It wouldnt surprise me if its the same on the Ko1.
For watever reason, centre weighted works far better.
Ive never known this before with flash, but try it and see for yourself.
04-03-2012, 05:05 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfortson Quote
I may just need to invest in some decent ND filters and get used to them.

Not so fast I'm sorry to state.

Especially with the new 40mm lens and it's 27 mm filter. In that size the ND's are difficult; if not impossible to find; so one has to either get a step up filter adapter (most likely 27 to 37 or larger or (something I haven't tried yet with the 40mm) a cokin square filter system - and hope it can be made to fit.

I really like the 40mm, but am also quite disappointed there wasn't quite a way to make a larger filter for the lens.

04-03-2012, 06:46 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
Not so fast I'm sorry to state.

Especially with the new 40mm lens and it's 27 mm filter. In that size the ND's are difficult; if not impossible to find; so one has to either get a step up filter adapter (most likely 27 to 37 or larger or (something I haven't tried yet with the 40mm) a cokin square filter system - and hope it can be made to fit.

I really like the 40mm, but am also quite disappointed there wasn't quite a way to make a larger filter for the lens.
I bought the DA40 Limited instead of the XS version. Unscrew the metal hood and you have an ordinary 49mm filter thread. But it was just luck - I wanted the prettier lens and I don't care about the curved aperture blades. If they are really going to develop the XS line of lenses for the K-Zero MILC bodies a Pentax dedicated XS 27 - 49 step-up ring would be a neat accessory.
04-03-2012, 12:42 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I bought the DA40 Limited instead of the XS version. Unscrew the metal hood and you have an ordinary 49mm filter thread. But it was just luck - I wanted the prettier lens and I don't care about the curved aperture blades. If they are really going to develop the XS line of lenses for the K-Zero MILC bodies a Pentax dedicated XS 27 - 49 step-up ring would be a neat accessory.
Same here, I sold the XS as I already have the DA40 Ltd. So ND filters are probably how I'll have to go.
04-03-2012, 01:03 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfortson Quote
Same here, I sold the XS as I already have the DA40 Ltd. So ND filters are probably how I'll have to go.
We should document this versus someone with a K-r and if it is a bug email Pentax. Apparently the Tak issue not establishing contact with Pin 7 for metering is being investigated in Japan. A PF member in Texas (forget who) did the work and emailed Pentax USA who forwarded the message and have kept him in the loop.
04-05-2012, 07:32 PM   #57
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I finally got my hands on a K-01 today, and frankly my first reaction was... ergonomically not certain I see what the fuss is all about... it looks good, it feels good (especially with a DA18-55 kit lens on it, which felt very nice !), it handles well, it feels quality. Sure it doesn't handle like a DSLR, but it isn't met to handle like a DSLR because it ain't a DSLR, and I think many reviewers are missing the point. It is met to be easy to use, and it is; the novice will feel very at ease with this camera, much more than a comparable DSLR. I actually got to handle a Fuji X100 while I was there too, and the X100 performance didn't impress me at all (AF and record time) compared to the K-01. On spec I thought the X100 was a faanntastic camera, but handling it side-by-side the K-01, I'd rather have the K-01 and stick a Ltd on it. The Sony EX's felt "gadgety" when attached to a lens of any serious size. I guess it's all a matter of perspective, and to me it showed that there's nothing like getting it in your hands.
04-05-2012, 07:56 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by regor Quote
I finally got my hands on a K-01 today, and frankly my first reaction was... ergonomically not certain I see what the fuss is all about... it looks good, it feels good (especially with a DA18-55 kit lens on it, which felt very nice !), it handles well, it feels quality. Sure it doesn't handle like a DSLR, but it isn't met to handle like a DSLR because it ain't a DSLR, and I think many reviewers are missing the point. It is met to be easy to use, and it is; the novice will feel very at ease with this camera, much more than a comparable DSLR. I actually got to handle a Fuji X100 while I was there too, and the X100 performance didn't impress me at all (AF and record time) compared to the K-01. On spec I thought the X100 was a faanntastic camera, but handling it side-by-side the K-01, I'd rather have the K-01 and stick a Ltd on it. The Sony EX's felt "gadgety" when attached to a lens of any serious size. I guess it's all a matter of perspective, and to me it showed that there's nothing like getting it in your hands.
If every comment on the K-01 and review of it had that line somewhere in the conclusion it wouldn't be thought of as a toy or a mistake. Unfortunately most people seem to want the K-01 to be a dSL-ex-R.

I like the camera very much. It really fits my hand well in a way a dSLR and the more compact MILC's don't. I think visually the design is appealing and for some reason i haven't experienced the limitations from which so many people imagined the camera would suffer. But I must not then be a serious photographer.

I agree with just about everything you've said, with the single observation that, the K-01 not being a dSLR, there are times when I should use a dSLR instead. Learning those times or (from another perspective) learning the limits of the K-01 is both a thrill and a chore.
04-05-2012, 09:28 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by regor Quote
I finally got my hands on a K-01 today, and frankly my first reaction was... ergonomically not certain I see what the fuss is all about... .
Agree 100%. I know ergonomics are a personal thing, but some of the complaints I've read about this are bordering on the absurd. Somebody posted that they couldn't hold the camera for more than 10 minutes without their hands cramping? Really? Personally, I think it handles very well, like a point and shoot (which is what it is). I know different people like different cameras, but the negative reactions to this camera are really over the top sometimes.
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