K-01 shots where nothing is in focus?

rfortson · 05-19-2012, 03:15 PM

Hey gang,

I'm a big fan of the K-01 and enjoy using it a lot. However, on a few occasion (latest today), I've had shots taken with the DA40 or DA21 where absolutely nothing is in focus in the entire frame. I'm shooting in AF-S and Av mode. The last two times it was outside in bright light where I tried to grab a quick snapshot. I get a focus confirmation, take the shot, and when I review it later, I find nothing in focus. Seems weird. I could see it missing focus (though there was plenty of light and contrast) but if it wasn't ready to take the shot, it shouldn't release the shutter.

Anyway, has anybody seen this before, and any idea what causes it? BTW, shots before and after this were absolutely fine. It's like the camera takes a shot before it's ready.

This first one was with the DA21 and it's really bad.

The second one isn't as bad, but still everything is OOF. Taken with the DA40.

**monochrome** · 05-19-2012, 05:29 PM

I had the experience yesterday at a critical moment. I know it appears that the focus was on the Chancellor presenting diplomas in the background, but unless there as a (possible) User Error I was aiming at my daughter's face. I was in AF.S, Spoit Focus, Av Mode in very good light, using the DA55~300. At 10000 ISO the image is noisy enough so sharpening doesn't help much.

I would have expected the background to be OOF at that aperture.

There was quite a lag between the focus beep and the release and my subject was walking toward me, so my conditions weren't the same as yours. I should have released the half-press and refocused, I guess.

I have changed Custom Setting 10. - AF Release Options to Focus-Priority. Shutter will not fire unless subject is in focus. While this seems limiting I'll try it for a while.

Thankfully we ordered the professional shots - support a pro, after all.

rfortson · 05-19-2012, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

]
I have changed Custom Setting 10. - AF Release Options to Focus-Priority. Shutter will not fire unless subject is in focus. While this seems limiting I'll try it for a while.

Thankfully we ordered the professional shots - support a pro, after all.

I'll check that setting. I guess I assumed it behaved that way already.

rfortson · 05-20-2012, 10:06 AM

I just checked and I do have it in Focus Priority, so it shouldn't be taking a photo where nothing is in focus. What's up?

**monochrome** · 05-20-2012, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by rfortson

I just checked and I do have it in Focus Priority, so it shouldn't be taking a photo where nothing is in focus. What's up?

I just took about 50 quick shots. The only way I could replicate your focus was to half-press to focus, hold the release down and QuickShift intentionally to de-focus, then release. Contrary to logic, the shutter WILL release when out of focus if I alter the focus manually after AF.

Do you suppose you could have accidentally rotated the focus ring? If so - is this a reportable bug?

**davidreilly3207** · 05-20-2012, 01:12 PM

Second shot is motion blur.

**monochrome** · 05-20-2012, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by mdave13

Second shot is motion blur.

This isn't really a complaint about the K-01 - but . . .

I've noticed in P Mode I pay less attention to shutter speed. Adding in the higher ISO capabilities of more modern cameras there are fewer exposure warnings generated, especially when in P Mode. It feels to me as if the tendency is to auto-adjust shutter speed more radically than aperture, so that I experience more failed shots caused by motion blur than I did on the K10D,

Lastly, I'm not yet accustomed to viewig the ISO, Av and Tv on the LCD, whereas in the OVF they are right in my eye.

My complaint about the K-01 is the M Mode implementation, which is the same as TAv on a dSLR. The camera chooses my settings for me and defaults to the lowest shutter speed it can. I can alter the setting with the */- button - if I see it. The LCD can be deceptively bright, giving the appearance of a properly exposed shot, at the expense of camera shake.

aardvarkgeo · 05-20-2012, 08:41 PM

I use AV mode mostly, and did notice that this was happening with the DA21 attached - the green icon shows focus, but the picture is OOF. It didn't happen all the time, so I marked it down as an inconsistency in the lens (I bought the lens 2nd hand) , as the DA40xs didn't seem to have the issue. I did send in my K-01 for repair and recieved it back about a week ago. So far so good - but I haven't taken that many pictures since I received it back, but maybe the reapair has fixed the issue? Will keep you posted.

jogiba · 05-21-2012, 05:40 AM

I could see getting OOF shots with film but there is no excuse with digital and 3" LCD were you could review images instantly and use e-dial to zoom in 2-6x.

My 100mm ED (540mm FL F5.4) spotting scope shot yesterday with my K-01 in auto mode with 18-55mm @55mm 1/320 sec, F7.1 ,100iso :

**monochrome** · 05-21-2012, 06:04 AM

It seems to me the whole process of using CDAF and (LCD) Focus Peaking takes longer than a practiced user with an OVF. That's neither good nor bad, but it does open the possibility to release the shutter before your subject is in focus if you need to move quickly.

What Russ doesn't understand is why the shutter releases at all when the camera is set to Focus Priority - Shutter will not release unless subject is in focus - and nothing in the entire frame is in focus.

rfortson · 05-21-2012, 07:35 AM

Thanks for the replies. Pretty sure it's not motion blur on the second one as subjects and photographer were both standing still and I had a high shutter speed.

As for reviewing the shots, of course I can review every shot, and take the shot again. That doesn't prevent the camera from releasing when it's not in focus. That's my main question here. The two shots shown, though rare, are really bad examples of the camera taking a shot when it's obviously not ready, even though it's set for focus priority release.

It just seems like it can get "confused" on occasion (bright lights?). I was looking to see if others had experienced this as well. And it occurs with "snap shots" where I'm just taking quick snaps. Obviously slowing down and actually looking at what I'm shooting would (and does) prevent this from happening. I just thought the camera was built so it couldn't happen at all, and that doesn't appear to be the case.

aardvarkgeo · 05-21-2012, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by rfortson

Thanks for the replies. Pretty sure it's not motion blur on the second one as subjects and photographer were both standing still and I had a high shutter speed.

As for reviewing the shots, of course I can review every shot, and take the shot again. That doesn't prevent the camera from releasing when it's not in focus. That's my main question here. The two shots shown, though rare, are really bad examples of the camera taking a shot when it's obviously not ready, even though it's set for focus priority release.

It just seems like it can get "confused" on occasion (bright lights?). I was looking to see if others had experienced this as well. And it occurs with "snap shots" where I'm just taking quick snaps. Obviously slowing down and actually looking at what I'm shooting would (and does) prevent this from happening. I just thought the camera was built so it couldn't happen at all, and that doesn't appear to be the case.

I agree with you and it happened to me a number of times - here's one where it really should have something in focus:

jimntonik · 05-23-2012, 07:58 AM

I've been experiencing similar focus issues lately with the DA 21, 40 XS, and DA 70. At first I was thinking it was just the 70mm and I needed to get used to the very shallow depth of field at f/2.4, but after experiencing a similar issue with my brand new DA21 yesterday, I'm convinced that it's a camera rather than a lens issue.

I'm considering taking my K-01 in to get serviced, and if they can't fix it, returning the camera -- would appreciate any feedback from others in the forum who might have an idea of what's going on.

asahi · 05-23-2012, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

I had the experience yesterday at a critical moment. I know it appears that the focus was on the Chancellor presenting diplomas in the background, but unless there as a (possible) User Error I was aiming at my daughter's face. I was in AF.S, Spoit Focus, Av Mode in very good light, using the DA55~300. At 10000 ISO the image is noisy enough so sharpening doesn't help much.

I would have expected the background to be OOF at that aperture.

There was quite a lag between the focus beep and the release and my subject was walking toward me, so my conditions weren't the same as yours. I should have released the half-press and refocused, I guess.

I have changed Custom Setting 10. - AF Release Options to Focus-Priority. Shutter will not fire unless subject is in focus. While this seems limiting I'll try it for a while.

Thankfully we ordered the professional shots - support a pro, after all.

I have noticed that the "spot" focus on my K-01 is not as small as the single focus spot on my K20D, and the proximity of the diploma in the dean's hand makes me think the K-01 read that instead of your lovely daughter's face.

Congrats, proud dad!

**monochrome** · 05-23-2012, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by asahi

I have noticed that the "spot" focus on my K-01 is not as small as the single focus spot on my K20D, and the proximity of the diploma in the dean's hand makes me think the K-01 read that instead of your lovely daughter's face.

Congrats, proud dad!

Thanks!!

My best guess is the suit and tie combination to the left side (better contrast).

Focus Peaking is great if there is time and attention to use it - we'll all need to learn how to judge focus quickly on the LCD just as we needed to learn how to "see" focus in a matte VF focusing screen, which is faster than using the split-image.

Clearly this case is not a totally missed focus/release as you and Russ have experienced. I'm playing with left index finger positioning now to determine the likelihood I might QS focus the lens after AF locks.

05-19-2012, 03:15 PM	#1
rfortson Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,129	K-01 shots where nothing is in focus? Hey gang, I'm a big fan of the K-01 and enjoy using it a lot. However, on a few occasion (latest today), I've had shots taken with the DA40 or DA21 where absolutely nothing is in focus in the entire frame. I'm shooting in AF-S and Av mode. The last two times it was outside in bright light where I tried to grab a quick snapshot. I get a focus confirmation, take the shot, and when I review it later, I find nothing in focus. Seems weird. I could see it missing focus (though there was plenty of light and contrast) but if it wasn't ready to take the shot, it shouldn't release the shutter. Anyway, has anybody seen this before, and any idea what causes it? BTW, shots before and after this were absolutely fine. It's like the camera takes a shot before it's ready. This first one was with the DA21 and it's really bad. The second one isn't as bad, but still everything is OOF. Taken with the DA40.

05-21-2012, 05:40 AM	#9
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	I could see getting OOF shots with film but there is no excuse with digital and 3" LCD were you could review images instantly and use e-dial to zoom in 2-6x. My 100mm ED (540mm FL F5.4) spotting scope shot yesterday with my K-01 in auto mode with 18-55mm @55mm 1/320 sec, F7.1 ,100iso : Last edited by jogiba; 05-21-2012 at 06:03 AM.

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05-19-2012, 08:11 PM	#3
rfortson Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,129 Original Poster	Originally posted by monochrome ] I have changed Custom Setting 10. - AF Release Options to Focus-Priority. Shutter will not fire unless subject is in focus. While this seems limiting I'll try it for a while. Thankfully we ordered the professional shots - support a pro, after all. I'll check that setting. I guess I assumed it behaved that way already.

05-20-2012, 10:06 AM	#4
rfortson Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,129 Original Poster	I just checked and I do have it in Focus Priority, so it shouldn't be taking a photo where nothing is in focus. What's up?

05-20-2012, 11:52 AM	#5
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by rfortson I just checked and I do have it in Focus Priority, so it shouldn't be taking a photo where nothing is in focus. What's up? I just took about 50 quick shots. The only way I could replicate your focus was to half-press to focus, hold the release down and QuickShift intentionally to de-focus, then release. Contrary to logic, the shutter WILL release when out of focus if I alter the focus manually after AF. Do you suppose you could have accidentally rotated the focus ring? If so - is this a reportable bug?

05-20-2012, 01:12 PM	#6
davidreilly3207 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: South Jersey Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 720	Second shot is motion blur.

05-20-2012, 01:29 PM	#7
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by mdave13 Second shot is motion blur. This isn't really a complaint about the K-01 - but . . . I've noticed in P Mode I pay less attention to shutter speed. Adding in the higher ISO capabilities of more modern cameras there are fewer exposure warnings generated, especially when in P Mode. It feels to me as if the tendency is to auto-adjust shutter speed more radically than aperture, so that I experience more failed shots caused by motion blur than I did on the K10D, Lastly, I'm not yet accustomed to viewig the ISO, Av and Tv on the LCD, whereas in the OVF they are right in my eye. My complaint about the K-01 is the M Mode implementation, which is the same as TAv on a dSLR. The camera chooses my settings for me and defaults to the lowest shutter speed it can. I can alter the setting with the */- button - if I see it. The LCD can be deceptively bright, giving the appearance of a properly exposed shot, at the expense of camera shake.

05-20-2012, 08:41 PM	#8
aardvarkgeo Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 35	I use AV mode mostly, and did notice that this was happening with the DA21 attached - the green icon shows focus, but the picture is OOF. It didn't happen all the time, so I marked it down as an inconsistency in the lens (I bought the lens 2nd hand) , as the DA40xs didn't seem to have the issue. I did send in my K-01 for repair and recieved it back about a week ago. So far so good - but I haven't taken that many pictures since I received it back, but maybe the reapair has fixed the issue? Will keep you posted.

05-21-2012, 06:04 AM	#10
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	It seems to me the whole process of using CDAF and (LCD) Focus Peaking takes longer than a practiced user with an OVF. That's neither good nor bad, but it does open the possibility to release the shutter before your subject is in focus if you need to move quickly. What Russ doesn't understand is why the shutter releases at all when the camera is set to Focus Priority - Shutter will not release unless subject is in focus - and nothing in the entire frame is in focus.

05-21-2012, 07:35 AM	#11
rfortson Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Houston TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,129 Original Poster	Thanks for the replies. Pretty sure it's not motion blur on the second one as subjects and photographer were both standing still and I had a high shutter speed. As for reviewing the shots, of course I can review every shot, and take the shot again. That doesn't prevent the camera from releasing when it's not in focus. That's my main question here. The two shots shown, though rare, are really bad examples of the camera taking a shot when it's obviously not ready, even though it's set for focus priority release. It just seems like it can get "confused" on occasion (bright lights?). I was looking to see if others had experienced this as well. And it occurs with "snap shots" where I'm just taking quick snaps. Obviously slowing down and actually looking at what I'm shooting would (and does) prevent this from happening. I just thought the camera was built so it couldn't happen at all, and that doesn't appear to be the case.

05-21-2012, 08:09 AM	#12
aardvarkgeo Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 35	Originally posted by rfortson Thanks for the replies. Pretty sure it's not motion blur on the second one as subjects and photographer were both standing still and I had a high shutter speed. As for reviewing the shots, of course I can review every shot, and take the shot again. That doesn't prevent the camera from releasing when it's not in focus. That's my main question here. The two shots shown, though rare, are really bad examples of the camera taking a shot when it's obviously not ready, even though it's set for focus priority release. It just seems like it can get "confused" on occasion (bright lights?). I was looking to see if others had experienced this as well. And it occurs with "snap shots" where I'm just taking quick snaps. Obviously slowing down and actually looking at what I'm shooting would (and does) prevent this from happening. I just thought the camera was built so it couldn't happen at all, and that doesn't appear to be the case. I agree with you and it happened to me a number of times - here's one where it really should have something in focus:

05-23-2012, 07:58 AM	#13
jimntonik New Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 15	I've been experiencing similar focus issues lately with the DA 21, 40 XS, and DA 70. At first I was thinking it was just the 70mm and I needed to get used to the very shallow depth of field at f/2.4, but after experiencing a similar issue with my brand new DA21 yesterday, I'm convinced that it's a camera rather than a lens issue. I'm considering taking my K-01 in to get serviced, and if they can't fix it, returning the camera -- would appreciate any feedback from others in the forum who might have an idea of what's going on.

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05-23-2012, 08:53 AM	#14
asahi Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Holliston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 69	Originally posted by monochrome I had the experience yesterday at a critical moment. I know it appears that the focus was on the Chancellor presenting diplomas in the background, but unless there as a (possible) User Error I was aiming at my daughter's face. I was in AF.S, Spoit Focus, Av Mode in very good light, using the DA55~300. At 10000 ISO the image is noisy enough so sharpening doesn't help much. I would have expected the background to be OOF at that aperture. There was quite a lag between the focus beep and the release and my subject was walking toward me, so my conditions weren't the same as yours. I should have released the half-press and refocused, I guess. I have changed Custom Setting 10. - AF Release Options to Focus-Priority. Shutter will not fire unless subject is in focus. While this seems limiting I'll try it for a while. Thankfully we ordered the professional shots - support a pro, after all. I have noticed that the "spot" focus on my K-01 is not as small as the single focus spot on my K20D, and the proximity of the diploma in the dean's hand makes me think the K-01 read that instead of your lovely daughter's face. Congrats, proud dad!

05-23-2012, 09:06 AM	#15
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by asahi I have noticed that the "spot" focus on my K-01 is not as small as the single focus spot on my K20D, and the proximity of the diploma in the dean's hand makes me think the K-01 read that instead of your lovely daughter's face. Congrats, proud dad! Thanks!! My best guess is the suit and tie combination to the left side (better contrast). Focus Peaking is great if there is time and attention to use it - we'll all need to learn how to judge focus quickly on the LCD just as we needed to learn how to "see" focus in a matte VF focusing screen, which is faster than using the split-image. Clearly this case is not a totally missed focus/release as you and Russ have experienced. I'm playing with left index finger positioning now to determine the likelihood I might QS focus the lens after AF locks.