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06-17-2012, 12:49 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Please post links to the marketing studies that support this statement.
Do you really need a marketing study to see the picture? The Pentax market has shrinked to the point that they couldn't survive a hostile takeover and now only the brand remains. Cosina abandoned the mount (I don't have their marketing report, but guess how it must have looked). Tamron and Sigma only release a subset of their lenses for Pentax.

And look outside the Pentax bubble. I frequently check discussions of Canon and Nikon users - they talk about NEX, they talk about XPro1, they talk about E-M5. K-01 and Pentax do not generate any buzz. Have a look at seriouscompacts and compare the K-01 section to the XPro1 one - 4/122 threads/posts vs 74/1240 - these are systems released around the same time.

Show me one forum not dedicated to Pentax where there are excited discussions about K-01. What do you think a marketing report could uncover? The millions of customers that enjoy their K-01 but don't want to share their opinions with others?

Ricoh can turn the Pentax brand around. But they need to come up with a product that turns heads. The frustrating part is that they can.

06-17-2012, 04:37 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Do you really need a marketing study to see the picture? The Pentax market has shrinked to the point that they couldn't survive a hostile takeover and now only the brand remains. Cosina abandoned the mount (I don't have their marketing report, but guess how it must have looked). Tamron and Sigma only release a subset of their lenses for Pentax.

And look outside the Pentax bubble. I frequently check discussions of Canon and Nikon users - they talk about NEX, they talk about XPro1, they talk about E-M5. K-01 and Pentax do not generate any buzz. Have a look at seriouscompacts and compare the K-01 section to the XPro1 one - 4/122 threads/posts vs 74/1240 - these are systems released around the same time.

Show me one forum not dedicated to Pentax where there are excited discussions about K-01. What do you think a marketing report could uncover? The millions of customers that enjoy their K-01 but don't want to share their opinions with others?

Ricoh can turn the Pentax brand around. But they need to come up with a product that turns heads. The frustrating part is that they can.
I think that as far as world wide sales, Pentax actually bottomed out a couple of years ago and has been climbing since that point.

"Buzz" on the internet only tells you so much. It would tell you (as a thread on the forum states) that the 'Q' has been a failure, when in reality, it has been a decent seller in Asia -- probably Pentax's best seller recently.

The excited K-01 people are not on photography fora, they are fashion conscious people who want something more than a point and shoot offers. It is a niche product, but in the end, I think it will be a decent platform that will bring better spec-ed products to market.
06-17-2012, 04:55 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
the same way that Pentax is not *perceived* as being a brand worth investing thousands of dollars into

I disagree. Outside of P&S (or perhaps pocket cameras) look at the sales numbers for interchangeable lens cameras. Sure Pentax will likely never quite reach the Canon or Nikon level, but... Look how Pentax holds it's own against Sigma's camera bodies, or Olympus, even Sony - although without even looking Sony has a larger sales number recently.

And although the consumer public will most likely notsee these numbers... Perhaps a type of informal polling on here might suffice for now?? One doesn't have to look far to see how many people either have the Pentax brand and have a fair share of lens for it; or do not yet have it - yet would also consider a gadget bag full of equipment for a future Pentax.

This also brings me back to a suggestion I came up with before... Look at how the older Pentax K1000 got so many interested in photography. Perhaps the K1000 should almost be reinvented for a new generation of students; and also have as many full manual controls as possible
06-17-2012, 05:40 AM   #19
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Have any of you given up on the K01 and gone back to dslr? If so, what was the problem?

06-17-2012, 05:58 AM   #20
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I think the k-01 is an interesting and quite capable little camera. Is it a serious attempt to compete with mainstream mirrorless systems? I don't think so. If Pentax had wanted to do that, they would have done a lot more with it. It's actually just a simple box with a sensor and a screen (and some knobs). Under the uniquely styled exterior it's very bare bones, with most of the tech carried across from the K5. I suspect it will recoup such minimal R&D costs quite comfortably.

Of course it did give Pentax the chance to develop and trial the new prime-M engine, and focus peaking implementation too, which are being shifted into their current cameras. But I'm not expecting a K-02 follow up camera, not without some significant changes anyway.

However I think the review does show that the K-01's simplicity is a benefit in the right hands, for certain shooting styles.

Last edited by ihasa; 06-17-2012 at 06:52 AM.
06-17-2012, 07:32 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Do you really need a marketing study to see the picture?
Ricoh can turn the Pentax brand around. But they need to come up with a product that turns heads. The frustrating part is that they can.
QuoteOriginally posted by ihasa Quote
I think the k-01 is an interesting and quite capable little camera. Is it a serious attempt to compete with mainstream mirrorless systems? I don't think so. If Pentax had wanted to do that, they would have done a lot more with it. It's actually just a simple box with a sensor and a screen (and some knobs). Under the uniquely styled exterior it's very bare bones, with most of the tech carried across from the K5. I suspect it will recoup such minimal R&D costs quite comfortably.

Of course it did give Pentax the chance to develop and trial the new prime-M engine, and focus peaking implementation too, which are being shifted into their current cameras. But I'm not expecting a K-02 follow up camera, not without some significant changes anyway.

However I think the review does show that the K-01's simplicity is a benefit in the right hands, for certain shooting styles.
A marketing study states the product goals. We have no idea what Pentax's product goals were/are. We have no idea what the cost of development was (other than a rumor that Newson got $1Million). We have no idea how Pentax defined success.

We only have our prejudices, many of which are justified for posters on internet Fora and the larger camera reviewers.

I don't care any more whether I am considered wrong or a goof or an amateur or un-serious or just a bad judge of value. I Iike mine exactly as it is. I carry it in my briefcase and use it nearly every day.

At a conference last week I took photos for a few minutes every two or three hours. Not a single person commented one way or the other - they just accepted that I was using a different camera than I've used in prior years. I'm not sure whether that's good or bad - but it certainly isn't what many posters here would have expected.

FWIW, I bought through the Forum B&H link. Adam PM'ed me, "So, you're going with the K-01. Are you sure you want to do that?"
06-17-2012, 01:48 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It would tell you (as a thread on the forum states) that the 'Q' has been a failure, when in reality, it has been a decent seller in Asia -- probably Pentax's best seller recently.
This should maybe give you a hint that the perception on this forum is a great indicator if you just invert it

If you'll check the Q forum discussions, you will find that I always thought it was a great idea - I was in minority in that case too.

Why do I like the Q but not the K-01? Because the Q offered something unique, and it still does. It may not be to everyone's taste, but for some people, it may be the only solution answering a need. Also the Q showed Pentax as a company willing to take risks by producing a camera that goes against conventional expectations. The K-01 is just too conservative - it is a timid entry rooted in the past rather than looking towards the future.
06-17-2012, 03:13 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
A marketing study states the product goals. We have no idea what Pentax's product goals were/are. We have no idea what the cost of development was (other than a rumor that Newson got $1Million). We have no idea how Pentax defined success.

We only have our prejudices, many of which are justified for posters on internet Fora and the larger camera reviewers.

I don't care any more whether I am considered wrong or a goof or an amateur or un-serious or just a bad judge of value. I Iike mine exactly as it is. I carry it in my briefcase and use it nearly every day.

At a conference last week I took photos for a few minutes every two or three hours. Not a single person commented one way or the other - they just accepted that I was using a different camera than I've used in prior years. I'm not sure whether that's good or bad - but it certainly isn't what many posters here would have expected.

FWIW, I bought through the Forum B&H link. Adam PM'ed me, "So, you're going with the K-01. Are you sure you want to do that?"
I bought a K-01 recently. Well built, comfortable in the hand with a wrist-strap, made for the limiteds, great for street candids, focus peaking means nice macro-type shots which are really sharp, colours and raw parameters pretty much the same as the K5 (allowing for the 12 vs 14 stuff) which means very good results, a go anywhere do most things kind of camera and for the quality, not at all expensive at least where I live. I can't see what folks get so upset about. It's not perfect and it puts out some heat, or mine does. But for a fairly simple, primes-only camera it works very well, imho. I could easily see myself travelling with this and a light kit of 15 or 21, 40 and 70. I could have paid double for a more sophisticated camera like the new Olympus OMD-5. But I already have the K5 for when I want long lenses, big zooms and fast RAW shooting. Worth bearing in the mind that the number of options, scene modes, focusing choices et al plus such a top sensor would have not been dreamed off in a camera even a few years ago. Even simple cameras these days are very capable. As for whether the K-01 has been judged a success by Pentax, I haven't a clue. I'd have thought their sales in Japan, China and points East were key anyway.

The reviewer in TOP was bang on the money, imho. Forget what the K-01 is like on paper or the net, what's it like to use over hundreds of shots in the hand and and on the street - that was his point, I thought. And, clearly, he thought it was pretty good, good enough to give a write-up to.


Last edited by mecrox; 06-17-2012 at 03:19 PM.
06-18-2012, 08:46 PM   #24
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I think the perception against K-01 comes from cameras like Nex-5n or nx200 or gx1 or ep3. pentax should have released some pancake lenses that are optimized for CDAF. including continuous AF for movies so that AF speed is really on par with other mirrorless . Then I believe size would not have mattered too much. People can choose to buy newer optimized lenses for K-01 or they can choose to use their older lenses with slower AF or use manual focus using focus peaking
Most of the reviews that slam K-01 have valid point when they talk about AF speeds.
I have not handled K-01 but I take people's words about excellent handling given that I am a Pentax owner. I am in the market for a mirrorless but do not want to jump to sony or other mirrorless brands. I jumped to DSLR from sony DSC-S85 a compact with good handling, image quality back in 2004 but poor AF capabilities. I did not miss VF that much, in fact I enjoyed photography a lot using LCD to compose unusual angle shots. I use to use a simple stone with camera lens tilted up, then use LCD to see the focus square without having to crouch etc. After I bought K10D, the quality of photos increased but I miss the freedom to compose without VF. I hate it especially when I have to crouch down for different angles, thats where I want mirrorless just to get more composing freedom but I DO NOT want to go back to "mirrorless fun" handicapped by slower AF.
The TOP article talks about the fun in photography which I can entirely relate to but unlike that photographer, I am not into manual focussing that much (focus peaking might change my opinion...).
Again as posters said, negativity borderlining hate speech on both sides is bit too much given that it is just a camera and we are supposed to do it for fun
06-19-2012, 07:08 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is interesting how polarizing the K-01 has been. For some reason, people who don't like it, have aggressively attacked it. Mike Johnston has said that he had to weed out a significant number of comments due to the level of vindictive in them..
IMO it had nothing to do with the K-01. The reviewer made the mistake of disparaging other systems, most notably the m43 sensors (which he dismissed by a simple "meh"). My suspicion was confirmed when Mike designated the guy who made the most disgracious comments. I checked his website and discovered he was a m43 user. If you want to troll any m43 or 43 user just mention the sensor size and its poor performance... they get quickly mad. But after using the GH2 I have to agree that the best m43 sensors are just far more behind the best APS-C than they should be.
06-20-2012, 04:37 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by slackercruster Quote
Have any of you given up on the K01 and gone back to dslr? If so, what was the problem?
I'll use non full frame slr camera's if there's the "need for speed", such as high fps action shooting. Also the typical 1.5 lens factor doesn't hurt either at bring subjects closer. But I'm also stuck with a real need for a full frame digital; still anxiously awaiting the D4.

I won't give up on the K-01; I'll always make room for it in a gadget bag
06-22-2012, 06:23 PM   #27
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I don't come over here often.....I don't care for the K-01...never have, but see no need to beat it up. No one made me buy one (I'm grateful!) but I do like to look at the K-01 photo thread and I do see some very excellent shots there.......as good as the K5 from my viewpoint....so if you like your K--01, and what matters is the IQ....the rest is immaterial.

Regards!
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