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07-15-2012, 06:52 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Actually using the K-01 with lcd lupe does have advantages over a dslr and optical viewfinder. You see camera adjustments in real time. See wb, exposure, exposure aids including histogram, highlight/ shadow blinkies, dof without darkening view. The lupe also allows camera to be used without smashing your nose and face against the lcd, unlike a dslr.

The K-01 screen improves on the Q in bright sun. My long bill hat comes in here (it is actually an Olympus E1 cap). I am near sighted and w/o glasses can easily focus 5" from lcd. Doesn't bother me a bit. Only time eyes get tired is when I am looking over my glasses. Without glasses good to go. It is possible the spacing of a persons eyes affects the "pain" issue. My eyes are narrowly spaced.

K-01 is a fun camera to use (along with the Q). View camera shooters have dealt with bright sun for years. They seem to have managed.
thanks
barondla

+1 to the LCD loupe.
3" + magnified viewfinder. What more to want?

The only downside is that its a bit dorky, though it can look 'sci-fi cool' as well (depending on how one sees it)

07-15-2012, 06:52 PM   #17
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Perhaps I did not make myself clear.

By "more or less like a SLR" I do not mean you stick the LCD on your face, but a few inches in front (like monochrome described) as opposed to at arms length like we so often see point-and-shooters doing.

At that distance, most of us will still struggle to focus on the screen. The trick is to resist trying to focus too hard; just relax and frame the blurry objects where you want them. Focus peaking snaps a bunch of flashing, blurry white lines on the screen and you're set to push the button. If you haven't actually tried it with the K-01, don't dis it.

It's true though. Shock! Horror!! The K-01 is not the perfect camera for everyone or every situation. But I like it.
07-15-2012, 06:57 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Actually using the K-01 with lcd lupe does have advantages over a dslr and optical viewfinder. You see camera adjustments in real time. See wb, exposure, exposure aids including histogram, highlight/ shadow blinkies, dof without darkening view. The lupe also allows camera to be used without smashing your nose and face against the lcd, unlike a dslr.
Good point. Of course I can put the same loupe on a K-5 or K-30.

QuoteQuote:
The K-01 screen improves on the Q in bright sun. My long bill hat comes in here (it is actually an Olympus E1 cap). I am near sighted and w/o glasses can easily focus 5" from lcd. Doesn't bother me a bit. Only time eyes get tired is when I am looking over my glasses. Without glasses good to go. It is possible the spacing of a persons eyes affects the "pain" issue. My eyes are narrowly spaced.
I am also near-sighted and I can't stand to wear glasses or contacts for reading or anything close. Bit of astigmatism as well. I could deal with 6" maybe if the screen was only 1" but not a 3" screen.

QuoteQuote:
K-01 is a fun camera to use (along with the Q). View camera shooters have dealt with bright sun for years. They seem to have managed.
With big blankets over their heads, yes. Most of the time it is not a big issue (the sun) -- I rarely have problems with my P&S or cell phone cam, etc. It just the "solution" of jamming the screen into your face that I find questionable. I just can't do anything really quick with a camera I've got to hold out in front of me, so it is a limitation. Not the end of the world, but a limitation, and it is a little weird to pretend it isn't.
07-15-2012, 07:15 PM   #19
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Not pretending it can't be limiting. All camera designs have limitations. just listed a bunch that the optical viewfinder has. Most people are so used to one type of camera it's limitations become invisible to them. I know people who feel discomfort from using the viewfinder on a dslr. They find it difficult and tiring to keep one eye closed while the other is open. The other choice is to keep both eyes open. Many sports photographers do this to keep from getting smacked by a ball, car, players, etc. Definetly a disadvantage of the optical viewfinder. No viewing system is perfect. If it were the others would probably fade away.

Yes the K-5/30 can be used in liveview. But does it have as good of LV as the K-01? MY K-7 doesn't. Don't remember if the K-5 does or not - will have to check it out. Anyway, that kind of softens the argument that LV doesn't have anything to offer over a dslr finder.
thanks
barondla

07-15-2012, 07:19 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Yes the K-5/30 can be used in liveview. But does it have as good of LV as the K-01? MY K-7 doesn't. Don't remember if the K-5 does or not - will have to check it out. Anyway, that kind of softens the argument that LV doesn't have anything to offer over a dslr finder.
K-5 doesn't have peaking and the CDAF could be better, but presumably everything from the K-30 forward will be at least as featured as the K-01 LV-wise...
07-15-2012, 07:24 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote

[It's true though. Shock! Horror!! The K-01 is not the perfect camera for everyone or every situation. But I like it.
Agreed - and I like it too.
07-15-2012, 08:36 PM - 1 Like   #22
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Well the real deal is, I and several other people have figured out a way to use the K-01 in the sun, and some of us even prefer it to a traditional VF camera. Others of us simply physically can't seem to make the same adaptation using an emulation tool (compact camera or LV on a dSLR), so a K-01 (actually, any camera w/o an OVF/EVF) won't work for them in bright sunlight. That is just fine - as the thread title states, the K-01 is not a do-everything camera.

My entire, frustrated argument since the eruption of protest last February has been that there IS a place for this admittedly imperfect camera. I am so incredibly tired of the reflexive "fanboy," "hymn-singer," "Ned's Butt-honcho," "I-love-it-when-I'm-right" comments from people who haven't even tried the camera and won't bother to discuss how to hold it or use it.

I get that some people just can't focus as closely on the LCD as I can. Normally I'm 6" out. I'll bring it in to my hat-shade (4" when I really need to). I cradle the bottom in my left hand like an SLR, fingers on the lens, right hand loose grip (so I don't care about the depth of the "grip") and right thumb operating the controls, elbows literally jammed into my sides acting as pivots and looking slightly down at the LCD. This works for me. I actually prefer this to my K10D, with and without the battery grip.

My objections to the camera are the Green Button palcement (obviously a pretty design decision but not perfectly ergonomic) and the TAv buried under the M Mode, as well as the other mid-range design decisions common to Pentax cameras up to the K30.

The sensor combined with the Prime M image engine is just outstanding, so I will tolerate a lot of shortcomings.

I take photographs for fun and for my own viewing. I have fun with the K-01 and that is really my evaluation metric. I wouldn't have as much fun with any of the MFT and adapter cameras I've borrowed from my camera store.

As a general comment (not to the posters I'm responding to in this Reply), a few years ago I had a lot more fun on PentaxForums than I do since the K-01 was introduced.
07-16-2012, 02:52 AM   #23
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I've found the K-01 to be fine for what it is. It's not an expensive camera as these things go. Its features are mid-range at best. It doesn't do 100 per cent of what I like but it surely does most of it, and as others have said the processing engine and sensor produce images which are second to none on APS-C. That's something of a bargain at 500 bucks, which is what I paid for a K-01 body. If Pentax continue to develop the idea, which I hope they will, I'd certainly be in the market for a more capable successor. The things which irk me are slow CDAF; slow processing engine, thus limiting use of RAW; no CADF-optimized zoom or lenses apart from the 40mm XS; no tilt screen or (of much less interest to me) EVF; and no horizon gauge on-screen to help one get things straight (or if there is one, I can't find it). But none of these get in the way of taking some fine pictures and enjoying it. A K-01 and 40mm and 21mm limiteds are all I need for a good day out, much less to carry around than my K5 set-up but I'm still out there with two killer lenses.

The shape of the body, which has been widely derided, is much more useful than I thought it would be. It's comfy to hold using a wrist strap and the broad flat base and sides mean it's fairly easy to take long exposures or bracketed shots by simply setting down the camera on a level surface. I then fire the shutter using a remote. Very useful.

I haven't found sunlight on the rear LCD to be all that big of an issue. In certain conditions it might be, though the screen is still surprisingly viewable in all but the most glaring light. On the other hand, I usually avoid taking pics in very bright light, typically in the middle of the day. Earlier and later and some subtle shades are more my thing anyway.

If Pentax do stick with the idea, however, I think they absolutely have to find a way round the limitations of CDAF, perhaps by using a hybrid CDAF/PDAF system if that is technically possible. To me, this is the biggest problem of this and many other mirrorless cameras (far from all of them, of course). That and a good, optimized zoom. I suspect Joe Public expects a small and fast-focusing zoom to go with a mirrorless and tends to look elsewhere when he doesn't find one. Too me, none of these things is an issue at 500 bucks but they would be dealbreakers at 1000 bucks. I'm fairly sure that Ricoh will study the market very carefully before having another go whereas I doubt that ever happened much with Hoya. So long as the investment was minimal and the figures looked good on paper, I don't think Hoya really cared whether it was a camera or a rubber duck.


Last edited by mecrox; 07-16-2012 at 03:26 AM.
07-16-2012, 09:16 AM   #24
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If it was my money, i would buy the K-30, pay the extra $200 and get the 100% coverage view finder and weather sealing...oh and you get focus peaking as well.
07-16-2012, 09:22 AM   #25
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Original Poster
One other issue with the K-01 style of cam is this. You can't hold it as steady as a dslr that benefits with the face / head contact. I got bad eyes so I have to hold it fairly far away too.

The K-01 is nice if you want a slightly smaller footprint for a cam though. That was why I tried one.
07-16-2012, 12:01 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
If it was my money, i would buy the K-30, pay the extra $200 and get the 100% coverage view finder and weather sealing...oh and you get focus peaking as well.
Whose money do you plan to use then, lol? I didn't wait for a K-30 partly because I'll upgrade my K5 sometime next year and in the meantime wanted something a bit different to a second DSLR. I've also found that inside places like old churches, not having a camera to my eye but held slightly away gives me a better sense of the space and atmosphere of the place and so a better grasp of what I am photographing and what I am leaving out. Not something I'd anticipated at all but with a bit of experience, I now find this quite valuable for certain kinds of shots. It me think about them a little more. Sometimes a DSLR to one's eye shuts out too much of the world.
07-16-2012, 12:06 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Whose money do you plan to use then, lol? I didn't wait for a K-30 partly because I'll upgrade my K5 sometime next year and in the meantime wanted something a bit different to a second DSLR. I've also found that inside places like old churches, not having a camera to my eye but held slightly away gives me a better sense of the space and atmosphere of the place and so a better grasp of what I am photographing and what I am leaving out. Not something I'd anticipated at all but with a bit of experience, I now find this quite valuable for certain kinds of shots. It me think about them a little more. Sometimes a DSLR to one's eye shuts out too much of the world.
I can spend anyone's money who is willing to invest in my happiness

I don't disagree with using the LCD to compose and focus...but you can do that with the K-30 as well. That's whats cool about it, you have the option of either, depending on the situation.
07-16-2012, 12:48 PM   #28
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The K-30 is going to blow through batteries if Live View is used.

The driving factor with our recent K-30 purchase is its simplicity. As long as you understand the lens limitations going in, it seems like a great cam for candid photography. (It's image quality is good enough for professional-looking results; it just doesn't have the feauture set to support it).

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
If it was my money, i would buy the K-30, pay the extra $200 and get the 100% coverage view finder and weather sealing...oh and you get focus peaking as well.
07-18-2012, 06:52 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
+1 to the LCD loupe.
3" + magnified viewfinder. What more to want?

The only downside is that its a bit dorky, though it can look 'sci-fi cool' as well (depending on how one sees it)
With magnetic frame it goes on and off in seconds.



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