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01-08-2013, 10:07 AM - 1 Like   #16
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No, you are not confused...but opinions on the internet can be confusing. The K01 is a bargain at the present price but if you can afford only one camera, and there is no stigma to that, get one with a viewfinder.

01-10-2013, 01:24 AM   #17
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Indeed, the more the one reads different reviews, the more difficult it is to pick a camera.
01-11-2013, 09:11 PM   #18
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Not at all confused

Even as a K-01 user, I would advise you toward the K30 as an only camera. You will be doing serious work, and an optical VF is pretty important in a large number of situations.

As for video, you have it right about the audio situation. In both the K-01 and K30, not much thought was given to high quality audio. The problem is recording in the quiet passages brings in heavy AGC noise that you simply have no control over (even if you input a high-quality mic). I have invested in a quality hand held (Olympus LS-7, same as the LS-3 in Europe), so I can dub with the handheld and good mic when serious about audio. If you follow a similar course, all you really need is the mono and no input of the K30 as a reference track to go with your serious discrete recording.

Given that you aren't getting nearly as good a deal as we have now with the K-01 close out in the U.S., you very much have things figured out well.

Last edited by ScooterMaxi Jim; 01-12-2013 at 12:14 AM.
01-12-2013, 10:12 AM   #19
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Yes, i decided to go with k-30 if I am picking Pentax.
I found a more serious question in my head regarding bitrates of Pentax cameras. So these are making me new second questioning.
However I was in the store again and asked them to give me Pentax k-30 and Canon 600D, But I like Pentax K-30 a lot more.
And thankfully I found some video samples from k-30 and k-01 to download and the quality seem to be acceptable. So well I think I will go with k-30.

Especially when the deal includes quite a nice gift, Asus Nex 7. So I guess it is a clear winner. I was also surprised how quality the kit lens is. So I guess 18-55mm f3.5 will have to do for beginning and will be looking for some vintage lenses that unfortunately seems to be reaching their limits, I guess they are now extremely popular due to the focus peaking. I am always too late everywhere, but well...

Now am looking into my financial options. SO well I hope to become a pentaxian. I really love k-30. It is just so fluent in my hands.

01-12-2013, 01:08 PM   #20
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Pentax K30 vs. Canon 600D

Danas, I shoot both Canon and Pentax. I suspect that Canon might give an edge to video (although audio is somewhat an issue with Canon too), but in terms of handling and build I am surprised you see the two models as comparable. I also think the Pentax (Sony sensor) is far ahead of the Canon in terms of image quality, especially for low light. Finally, you have far more options with Pentax if you are looking at quality used lenses, especially if you are willing to search out older legacy optics (from the 1970s and '80s). For video, many of the old, fast MF prime lenses are superb and still cheap. Remember that the Canon is at least a year older, so comparing the ratings does not account for improvements made in that time span.
01-12-2013, 01:52 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Quote
Danas, I shoot both Canon and Pentax. I suspect that Canon might give an edge to video (although audio is somewhat an issue with Canon too), but in terms of handling and build I am surprised you see the two models as comparable. I also think the Pentax (Sony sensor) is far ahead of the Canon in terms of image quality, especially for low light. Finally, you have far more options with Pentax if you are looking at quality used lenses, especially if you are willing to search out older legacy optics (from the 1970s and '80s). For video, many of the old, fast MF prime lenses are superb and still cheap. Remember that the Canon is at least a year older, so comparing the ratings does not account for improvements made in that time span.
I am well aware of how different these two cameras are. However both are in the price range I can afford.
This is the only reason why 600D got into my radar. Price that is to my pocket and having an edge on video mode for some parts.
However the better built of K-30, a lot better ergonomics, absolutely better IQ in all aspects regarding still photography as well as some key features that makes k-30 be absolute winner makes me still head to Pentax. But to my misfortune I am a multimedia artist and need a tool for both, taking stills and video. If it was only photography matter, k-30 no questions asked and no doubts. But I will need video mode of the DSLR too.

But complicated 600D menus, odd button layout, plastic body that is built as a cheap tv keypad, not the best ergonomics to my hand... well it is in my consideration list only because of better video bit rates.
I actually like K-30 video mode a lot better. But this technical detail introduced 600D in my list which is bit rates. This issue would be easily eliminated if there was any Pentax hack that would work on k-30, since it is not introducing new features, only increasing a number in software. But I am not aware of any such thing. So the 600D is in my consideration list only because of a small edge on video mode.

I would gladly take a dedicated camcorder but I will not get anything suitable for the price I can handle. Plus I will need to take stills. This leaves me with DSLR option. I am at a starter position so my funds are small for equipment. So DSLR makes a good solution for the beginning. And k-30 offers me kind of everything I need including the "I like it" factor. I want to have a tool that I would enjoy to work with. in this regard 600D dramatically fails. Pentax K-30 on the other hand gives me joy.

I don;t need HDMI out to an external screen, I do not need an external mic jack yet and can live without articulating LCD screen. All is fine here, especially knowing I can do things in the rain with k-30 without worrying about the cam due to a WR body ( and lenses) but the bit rates. I am now evaluating whether the video compression will not be too big in k-30. This is the only thing holding me from simply taking k-30.

If there was a hack like for GH2 that would allow to make a more quality friendly video compression for K-30, there would be no doubts.

I found some video samples and am evaluating, visually the samples are okay, but technically things are less appealing. If not this doubt, I would take k-30. The good thing I decided regarding k-01, OVF is my friend and the two control dials are awesome + WR will allow me more extreme stuff to do. I wish Pentax would include extra setting: good, very good, best, excellent (which would be less storage efficient but in terms output quality would be excellent)

So well, for taking stills obviously k-30, now video section makes my brain go nuts.

Oh I also like that Pentax can take legacy lenses adapters free and focus peaking is really good feature, So it has an edge here too, but bit rates chosen for the video are somewhat lacking.
And this is important while I cannot afford high end interchangeable lens video camera. So well, this is the main reason I am confused, I guess if I didn;t make deeper research and didn;t find info about bit rates I would have chosen k-30 already.
01-14-2013, 09:51 AM   #22
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Danas, you have done a lot of good research and your analysis is appropriate to your needs. I think the bit rate issue is a real concern, but if you look at the K-01/K30 videos posted by talented folks (only a few available out there) using quality optics (not the kit zoom), you'll find that the grade is still very high (especially so in low light). I call it industrial professional grade (one level below broadcast grade). The compression algorithms have improved a great deal in recent years, such that these concerns have been lessened even with use of steep compression. Still, I think your caution is well placed. If I were in your position - and assuming the pricing is similar in your region - I would consider the Nikon D5100 well ahead of the Canon due to marginally better build and ergonomics, as well as still IQ nearly matching the Pentax. Nikon has at least pulled even with Canon in video (at this price point), but most videographers aren't aware of that for some reason. If you plan on using some dedicated flash, Nikon is the top system.
01-14-2013, 10:36 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Danas_Anis Quote
So well, for taking stills obviously k-30, now video section makes my brain go nuts.
No offense, but you list a dozen bad sides to the other camera, but only one for the K-30, which you keep coming back to. Now, sure, if you will be doing nothing but video and really need those extra options, okay, get the other camera. Or better yet, a video recorder instead of a DSLR still camera. But for practical uses, the K-01 and K-30 have pretty great video modes. I usually dont even use the biggest size for my videos, because the smaller size is perfectly fine for what I do - record some memories, take a tourist type video of an event, stuff like that. I dunno, but I think Canikon are only worth it if you buy their top level cameras (along with top lenses), for anything below that, Pentax has an equivalent or better alternative.
And keep in mind that for great video, its more important that you have great light, a dolly, and other filmography tools, than just the actual camera. That is what separates a regular hand-held video from a "wow!" film.

01-14-2013, 12:07 PM   #24
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@ Na Horuk, well I learned that in things the one doesn;t like, he or she will see more bad things than good ones. So this is what is happening with me, I like Pentax as a brand and most things they did. While to me Canikons are so over rated. Yet I do my best to push away my personal opinion and smartly choose the right thing, however if it will not give pleasure, it can be the most technically perfect thing, but I will still see more bad than good in it.

I also think same way about the top line, with Canons and Nikon it is worth to take their upper class models, they are kind of right. I tried them, I did use Canons 5D mark 2, 7D and 60D but their prices are like a travel to the moon to me. Nikon D7000 I think is also solid and fine. But the lover end class gadgets are really not impressive. Especially ergonomics and built.

@ ScooterMaxi Jim, I didn;t hold D5100 actually, but there are some things about Nikon that I am not fond with... And they could be kicking in every time I take the camera. Nikons as well as many Canon models leave many features to their higher end models that are available in other brands as standard features in their economy class cameras.
The reason why I am still so much into Pentax is legacy lens support with no adapters. My plan is to get some cheap good old lenses. Especially when there is focus peaking introduced in k-30 and k-01 and will be available in all future cameras by Pentax I suppose.
--
So I am kind of torn apart, from technical point of view, in terms of video shooting it would be best to go with some other brand, but for still photography and in general Pentax is more appealing. Each time i take k-5 or k-30 I just feel joy. It gives me this creative feeling. So I am a fan of Pentax and naturally Pentax cameras seem more appealing.
Life will show where to go. I think I gathered quite some information and input from community.

As I mentioned to get a dedicated video camera, models that I would need cost too much. I will also do lots of photography, so DSLR seem to be the best mid point giving good still shooting features as well as good video shooting capabilities. After all I would be doing more of story boarded video shoots rather than documentary of long lasting seminars etc. So DSLR covers most needs in terms of creating short films and scripted movies. While to capture various long events definitely a dedicated video camera is a must.
01-14-2013, 12:35 PM   #25
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Danas, it can overwhelming if you over-think the decision. You have already said it - the Pentax system feels right and includes many of the features omitted by Canikon at consumer level cams - and I completely agree with you about those qualities. As for any concern about length of video clips, unlike the K5 and most consumer dSLRs the K30/K-01 are very nicely engineered to avoid sensor overheating. Other than the lack of audiophile high fidelity audio, you likely will be quite happy with the overall video quality and experience. Welcome to Pentax if that's your final decision.
01-14-2013, 01:04 PM   #26
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hehe, my brain is already overheated, seems like picking a wife
Well anyway it is more likely to be k-30 as my choice. I tried to make a color grade for a bird video that is on vimeo.com from a pentax k-01 user, overall it came out considerably okay. so for the beginning it should do.
I still have hope that Pentax will increase the bit rates, since it is a simple software modification, I also came a cross some talks from Vitaly that gives some hope there might be a hack for k-01 which could open door for k-30 for some features. Keeping my fingers crossed there. So I suppose I will be a pentaxian. But I still have to gather my funds and see if it will happen.

Thank you very much for your patience and input
01-14-2013, 01:11 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Danas_Anis Quote
Hello!

I have now a very very very big question on my mind.

To be a Pentax K-01 user or not to be.
So the story is this. I am a poor multimedia design artist and tend to get into some photo shoots and video shoots.
I wasn;t able to afford a DSLR for a long time and as in my introduction and hello thread revealed that I used to barrow various DSLRs ranging from Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Lumix etc.
And now due to some projects I would really need to have a cam and to my misfortune resources of borrowing has shrank. But destiny seems to offer me a chance to get my own cam.

However my funds are not that big. And now since Pentax K-01 is half the price it used to be, it became more and more attractive solution considering its features offerings against the competition.

Could Pentax K-01 be considered a good primary camera body?
And here is what it would be used for:

I am an amateur photographer and I don't think I would take a risk to ruin someone's wedding, however I would have some studio and outside photo shoots of models etc.
I am also thinking to use this camera for video production, not holywood level movies, but would use it as a main camera for multimedia projects. And to be fair interchangeable lens video cameras are way out of my luxury reach and since I also do photo shoots DSLR kind camera with videography features is this all round solution at the moment.

This question of mine is for people who already has K-01 and could tell it from the first hand experience, would it perform considerably well as a main body for somewhat professional level projects. They would be commercial projects. Would K-01 be this inspirational tool to be used for production?

I will confess I am not fond of its ergonomics, at least yet. I went to a camera store and tried it. While the looks of it is not scary to me at all, the ergonomics wasn't as impressive as k-05 and k-30 and other Pentax cameras. While when I take K-30 to my hand it instantly feels like it is extension of my own body, K-01 in my hand feels solid but it just makes me question my self and don;t feel as great as with k-30 and k-05 that instantly grow on me. I would love to take k-30, however it is a bit expensive for me and if I take k-30, I could get it with less appealing standard kit lens while k-01 would be with this nice 40mm f2.8 pancake which is sharper than the 18-55mm f3.5 and I woudl still save couple hundreds of money. And my experience lead me to this conclusion that I do better with sharper prime lenses than with standard zoom lenses.

I believe I could sacrifice ergonomics in regards to get better output.

Are those floppy rubber doors really that annoying as most reviewers claim it to be? Aren't there any accessory kind door replacement to change from rubber door to plastic ones that would be less annoying? In the store I didn;t play much with them so would appreciate opinion from a long term user about this.

I would also like to get a very honest opinion, I already like Pentax products, so no need to be too much positive about Pentax. I tried many different cameras and even Canon 5D Mark II with its glorious sensor didn;t impress me. I mean Canon and Nikon cameras while they are amazing and good cameras do not inspire me, they are cool but I lack this feel that I enjoy taking imagery with those cameras, I like shooting but the tools doesn;t communicate with me if you know what I mean. While the old Olympus E-420 is so inspiring and even with all the limitations it has for today's innovative world. And when I take Pentax cameras to my hands, I feel this same joy as with E-420, I like the menus, the feel of quality of the cameras ( I didn;t try k-x nor k-r, I heard those are less solid built than lets say k-01).

So my main reasons of why I look at Pentax cameras are that I kind of like them, I like the menu of the controls, I love that Pentax keeps backward compatibility with all K mount lenses. I guess this is the biggest highlight there for me. Compared to the competition for the same price Pentax offer not only better built solid cameras, but the feature list is far more attractive. yet there is video shooting field that some people claim to be weak point of Pentax. However I witnessed very impressive videos from K-x and K-r that has less good video mode than Pentax k-01. So if there is anyone who would also happen to have Canon 600D or Nikon 5100 next to K-01, could you elaborate more about how k-01 raw videos compare to those others cams videos?

Another question is would it be better to go with k-01 and a better lens, or k-30 with average lens and a bit bigger trouble to pay for it?
Oh and viewfinder, how is life without one? Does the lack of view finder feels very much or the LCD screen is good enough for most things you do?
While I am not new to DSLRs Pentax could actually become my first owned interchangeable lens cam. This is why I am troubling you with these questions.
While there is a lot of feedback about k-01 being a backup cam, I would like to get some advice would it be good as a primary tool?
Thank you very much for your time!

Kind regards,
Danas
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Honestly, if you going to shoot video, don't get a Pentax. Get a used T3i or T2i you will get better video control - if vid is important to you. I know many ppl use Canon to shoot video use Pentax old lens for their silky smooth focus and.... cheap.
01-15-2013, 11:04 AM   #28
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I took a look at Nikon D5100 and honestly I found it shocking its video mode didn;t get so much less positive noise as k-30.
D5100 Bit rate is only one number bigger than tthe one in my friend's smartphone. D5100 has a bit rate of approx 18Mbps while k-30 gives approx 25Mbps. It also is odd than in Nikon some settings must be done out of live view mode for video.

So best solution would be to go with Canon (which I am not very fond off), Panasonic GH2 ( which apparently seems to be no longer in any shop in my country) and then there is Pentax K-30 that has a WR body as an advantage and is a DSLR I like most from the ones I could get.

Well I don;t want to make you bored and tired guys, Will see what my salary gives me and will pick from the two brands I have in mind at this moment. I might become a Pentaxian even when shooting video. Life will show.
Thank you for your thoughts on the cameras.
01-15-2013, 12:30 PM   #29
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In my experience, the K-01 (same as K30) takes up around 18 mb/sec. (not to be confused with frame rates) when shot at 1080 30 fps; I suspect because these cameras use the same sensor (D5100, K-01, K30), the set up in terms of compression is the same or very close. I don't think the comparison with a smartphone's bit rate is at all meaningful. Compression just plain isn't a major problem. Please look at the videos that have been posted, and decide what is acceptable. I would not buy a camera you've already found is unpleasant to handle (Canon in your case); any difference in video quality will be relatively minor. One of the big downgrades for the K-01/K30 claimed by many reviewers is extreme jello effect - all because none of these reviewers followed simple directions indicating that you cannot use SR when panning! Otherwise, video would have been rated as nearly comparable in IQ. The Panasonic GH2 is three years old, and the video is still right up there with the better dSLR offerings. Still quality is not acceptable for professional use; it rates about even with my original Pentax dSLR from 2004. (DXo sensor score is 79 for K30, 60 for the GH2.)
01-15-2013, 01:14 PM   #30
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apologies about the smartphone. I just have higher expectations to brands that are very much praised by industry. And it was surprising to see a couple of review indicating this difference, D5100 D3100 18Mbps. while K-01 and K-30 25Mbps. This difference can make a big deal for a sharp eye personas.

yet I can't argue, the difference between the outputs shouldn't be big at least visually.

I am doing this much thinking because when on low budget, I need to carefully pick something that could be with me for some longer time.
Thank you very much for your patience and advice
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