DSLnR (non-Reflex)

anthony mazzeri · 01-15-2013, 12:24 PM

This thread evolved from a couple of other thread/comments about the K-01 getting panned for being too big for a MILC through the inevitable comparisons with Sony's NEX etc. Even though some MILCs are now actually getting as big or even larger, eg the micro 4/3 GH3, that negative comparison continues.

So we've seen the right or wrong comparison can make or break a camera. It was very much the the same situation with the Nikon 1 being panned by being compared to other MILCs where its 1" sensor looked anaemic and small in comparison, leaving Nikon to firesale the V1 in its very first year just like the K-01. Whereas Sony had the masterstroke of targetting the very same 1" size sensor in the RX100 against P&S compacts where it looks absolutely huge in comparison and so sells like hotcakes.

So it's all about perception. Which starts with the name:

The K-01 should be being compared to DSLRs instead because it too mounts existng SLR lenses, not new 'MILC' lenses, where it compares much more impressively in terms of size - the K-01 is the first non-mirror camera to mount SLR lenses = DSLnR (non-Reflex).

The K-01 is very much likely the first in a whole new swathe of cameras to come. Nikon and Canon will surely follow suit with their own, inevitably for cost reasons especially for entry-level models. As such, the K-01 is the best DSLnR on the market currently, bar none, leading the way in this whole new category.

So I'm going to always refer to it as a DSLnR from now on, and politely correct anyone who calls it a MILC.

**boriscleto** · 01-15-2013, 12:29 PM

I have always preferred EVIL.

VoiceOfReason · 01-15-2013, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

I have always preferred EVIL.

Since I ordered one that I will use for paranormal investigations after I get it full spectrum converted does that mean I'm goign to have an evil little yellow brick?

audiobomber · 01-15-2013, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

I have always preferred EVIL.

K-01 doesn't qualify as EVIL (electronic vf, interchangeable lenses).

I noticed that Pentax Imaging calls the K-01, Q and Q10 hybrids.

**boriscleto** · 01-15-2013, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

K-01 doesn't qualify as EVIL (electronic vf, interchangeable lenses).

I noticed that Pentax Imaging calls the K-01, Q and Q10 hybrids.

AFAIK the lack of an optical viewfinder makes a camera an EVIL. In the absence of a viewfinder the lcd becomes the defacto viewfinder. I'm not going to nitpick and say the NEX-7 is an EVIL but the NEX-6 is a MILC and I don't think most other people would either. I have seen them referred to as DSLR-"Like" cameras. I suppose that is the same as saying that Linux is UNIX-"Like".

audiobomber · 01-15-2013, 02:09 PM

They're acronyms.

EVIL - Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens
MILC - Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera

The EVIL term seems to have passed into oblivion, probably because of examples like NEX6 and 7. It's no longer relevant, but it was when this type of cam first appeared.

**THoog** · 01-15-2013, 02:27 PM - **2 Likes**

Well, since one of our members says it's a 'dog', and Pentax says it's a 'hybrid', might I suggest MUTT - Mirrorless Unorthodox Transitional Type?

anthony mazzeri · 01-15-2013, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

They're acronyms.

EVIL - Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens
MILC - Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera

I'm also seeing them referred to as CSC (Compact System Cameras) by some online retailers and even Nikon themselves too I think, which even more so applies to the smaller ones like the NEX and Nikon 1 but not to the K-01 or any other future non-reflex DSLRs from Canikony.

I'd like to see the distinction to be the MILC/CSC/EVIL are the range of new cameras with new lens mounts, while the DSLnR would be the range of new cameras for the old (SLR) lens mounts. So only Pentax, Nikon, Canon and Sony can/would make DSLnRs as part of their overall general DSLR range of camera and lenses.

As for Pentax using the word 'Hybrid', it sounds like they tried to invent a term to describe a camera that was part DSLR and part MILC and then also decided to apply it to the Q as well in the hopes it would catch on. Which it obviously hasn't, so they would do better with using DSLnR and CSC respectively.

01-15-2013, 12:24 PM	#1
anthony mazzeri Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 312	DSLnR (non-Reflex) This thread evolved from a couple of other thread/comments about the K-01 getting panned for being too big for a MILC through the inevitable comparisons with Sony's NEX etc. Even though some MILCs are now actually getting as big or even larger, eg the micro 4/3 GH3, that negative comparison continues. So we've seen the right or wrong comparison can make or break a camera. It was very much the the same situation with the Nikon 1 being panned by being compared to other MILCs where its 1" sensor looked anaemic and small in comparison, leaving Nikon to firesale the V1 in its very first year just like the K-01. Whereas Sony had the masterstroke of targetting the very same 1" size sensor in the RX100 against P&S compacts where it looks absolutely huge in comparison and so sells like hotcakes. So it's all about perception. Which starts with the name: The K-01 should be being compared to DSLRs instead because it too mounts existng SLR lenses, not new 'MILC' lenses, where it compares much more impressively in terms of size - the K-01 is the first non-mirror camera to mount SLR lenses = DSLnR (non-Reflex). The K-01 is very much likely the first in a whole new swathe of cameras to come. Nikon and Canon will surely follow suit with their own, inevitably for cost reasons especially for entry-level models. As such, the K-01 is the best DSLnR on the market currently, bar none, leading the way in this whole new category. So I'm going to always refer to it as a DSLnR from now on, and politely correct anyone who calls it a MILC.

01-15-2013, 02:09 PM	#6
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	They're acronyms. EVIL - Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens MILC - Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera The EVIL term seems to have passed into oblivion, probably because of examples like NEX6 and 7. It's no longer relevant, but it was when this type of cam first appeared. Last edited by audiobomber; 01-15-2013 at 02:35 PM.

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01-15-2013, 12:29 PM	#2
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	I have always preferred EVIL.

01-15-2013, 01:37 PM	#3
VoiceOfReason Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Mishawaka IN area Photos: Albums Posts: 6,124	Originally posted by boriscleto I have always preferred EVIL. Since I ordered one that I will use for paranormal investigations after I get it full spectrum converted does that mean I'm goign to have an evil little yellow brick?

01-15-2013, 01:41 PM	#4
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by boriscleto I have always preferred EVIL. K-01 doesn't qualify as EVIL (electronic vf, interchangeable lenses). I noticed that Pentax Imaging calls the K-01, Q and Q10 hybrids.

01-15-2013, 01:55 PM	#5
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by audiobomber K-01 doesn't qualify as EVIL (electronic vf, interchangeable lenses). I noticed that Pentax Imaging calls the K-01, Q and Q10 hybrids. AFAIK the lack of an optical viewfinder makes a camera an EVIL. In the absence of a viewfinder the lcd becomes the defacto viewfinder. I'm not going to nitpick and say the NEX-7 is an EVIL but the NEX-6 is a MILC and I don't think most other people would either. I have seen them referred to as DSLR-"Like" cameras. I suppose that is the same as saying that Linux is UNIX-"Like".

01-15-2013, 02:27 PM - 2 Likes	#7
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Well, since one of our members says it's a 'dog', and Pentax says it's a 'hybrid', might I suggest MUTT - Mirrorless Unorthodox Transitional Type?

01-15-2013, 02:46 PM	#8
anthony mazzeri Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 312 Original Poster	Originally posted by audiobomber They're acronyms. EVIL - Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens MILC - Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera I'm also seeing them referred to as CSC (Compact System Cameras) by some online retailers and even Nikon themselves too I think, which even more so applies to the smaller ones like the NEX and Nikon 1 but not to the K-01 or any other future non-reflex DSLRs from Canikony. I'd like to see the distinction to be the MILC/CSC/EVIL are the range of new cameras with new lens mounts, while the DSLnR would be the range of new cameras for the old (SLR) lens mounts. So only Pentax, Nikon, Canon and Sony can/would make DSLnRs as part of their overall general DSLR range of camera and lenses. As for Pentax using the word 'Hybrid', it sounds like they tried to invent a term to describe a camera that was part DSLR and part MILC and then also decided to apply it to the Q as well in the hopes it would catch on. Which it obviously hasn't, so they would do better with using DSLnR and CSC respectively.