Selling k5 after using k01

Khoff2 · 01-28-2013, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by mrbdm99

I'm going to go off topic just a bit here and say something that I'm sure has been covered on this forum any number of times, but AF isn't needed to take great (in focus!) sports images, keep up with moving kids, etc. That said, seeing as my K-01 is still not here, I'm not sure how practical it would be to do these things (focus peaking or not) on a live view screen, but there are millions of action packed images that were taken well before the advent of AF. I know I used to take a lot of action images with no AF (and no flash for that matter) on high speed B&W film using a hand me down K1000 and Canon AE-1. Of course I'm not saying that a great AF system doesn't help and isn't/wasn't game changing, just that it is not necessary.

Sorry, ranting. I get tired of hearing that the AF system is the end all, be all of camerdom. That said, with my aging eyes, it is helpful

A very valid point indeed. I used to shoot for my high school yearbook using an old minolta and manual focus. If i could find a decent manual focus zoom for this k-01, I might consider keeping it. The lens would have to have a fast and easy to grip focus ring. Any recommendations?

mrbdm99 · 01-28-2013, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by Khoff2

A very valid point indeed. I used to shoot for my high school yearbook using an old minolta and manual focus. If i could find a decent manual focus zoom for this k-01, I might consider keeping it. The lens would have to have a fast and easy to grip focus ring. Any recommendations?

Ha, same place I was using said manual everything! Funny how high school year books always have old equipment. I can't comment on good zoom's as I seem to only have prime's, other than a kit zoom from a ZX-5 I used a while back.

Khoff2 · 01-28-2013, 05:42 PM

Just did a manual vs auto focus test with the K-01 and 40xs. Both time I focused on the banister post. The AF seems to have focused on the wall, where as the MF was spot on (2nd photo). I used focus peaking to see the white outline in the wood grain.
Hmmmm

Shihaochew · 01-28-2013, 05:46 PM

Wow. Nice post! I guess that's one of the problem with AF, as the AF 'square' is often too big and not precise enough.

Seems like although many have considered replacing their dslr with k01, none have actually done so yet.

Jamey777 · 01-28-2013, 06:01 PM

Using the K01 in Tav mode is fun, basically just set the camera to M mode, and if you are on auto ISO it will let you put whatever shutter speed and aperture you like (within the bounds of your ISO range of course)

So basica flow is

> Set to M mode
> Press green button
> Adjust shutter or aperture (one dial so you have to push the Av/Exposure button to toggle)
> Focus
> Take picture

I do this all the time with children ages 3 weeks on up no problems.

I certainly get more in focus shots with this camera than I did my K10. Also no back / front focus. I can't tell you how much better these photos are.

Oh and I have a manual focus lens now (50mm 1.4 A) and with focus peaking it is the most fun I have had using a camera. I would have been miserable on the K10 trying to manual focus.

My only gripes are the grip isn't ergonomic for my hand, and the LCD is a pain in sunlight. There are solutions for those (change grip, get a sun shield)

Jamey

**THoog** · 01-28-2013, 06:01 PM

Khoff2, it also depends on what AF mode you used, but that black frame against the white wall is the highest contrast point in the picture, so naturally the camera is going to go after it.

snkenai · 01-28-2013, 06:20 PM

I have found that "peaking" with the K-01 and -M 50mm F1'7, gives too much "shimmer", in bright light, stopped down, with high contrast landscape. I prefer to turn it off. It is very useful for some subjects, especially in low light, and open aperture.
The comparison of MF moving subjects, with old film cameras with VF and split/image, verses LCD, is not even close in my experience (old eyes). The VF and focus screen gives a much more positive indication. The LCD does have other advantages.

Jamey777 · 01-28-2013, 06:37 PM

I haven't used it for landscapes, only indoors with kids. I will have to see if I have that problem as well.

Landscapes don't move. Should be easy to check focus.

It's not a DSLR but I am pretty sure I will be fine without one.

snkenai · 01-28-2013, 06:41 PM

I didn't mean to give a negative impression of the K-01. In fact I love it outdoors on tripod. (shaky hands)

Ikarus · 01-28-2013, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Khoff2

Just did a manual vs auto focus test with the K-01 and 40xs. Both time I focused on the banister post. The AF seems to have focused on the wall, where as the MF was spot on (2nd photo). I used focus peaking to see the white outline in the wood grain.
Hmmmm

I'm guessing you have the focus mode set to 'face detect'. One of the first things I did to my K-01 was changing it to spot focus.

Khoff2 · 01-28-2013, 07:56 PM

Nope, spot for me as well. I tried it a couple of more times with better success.

RonHendriks1966 · 01-29-2013, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by Khoff2

Just did a manual vs auto focus test with the K-01 and 40xs. Both time I focused on the banister post. The AF seems to have focused on the wall, where as the MF was spot on (2nd photo). I used focus peaking to see the white outline in the wood grain.
Hmmmm

Well this is very simple. The square you are using for AF is bigger then the subject. In that square it chooses the biggest contrast, wich is the black-white frame on the wall. So the K-01 functions as to be expected!

ChrisJ · 01-29-2013, 04:18 AM

Auto focus is not a total panacea on any camera, it's just as likely to focus where you don't want it to as where you do and it delays shutter release.

I prefer to use a lot of old manual focus lenses (cheap, but with great image quality), used correctly manual focus can be an asset, pre-set the focus using the Depth of Field scale, then you don't have to worry about focus, you KNOW it's in focus and can concentrate on framing the shot and 'the moment', as there will be zero shutter lag.

Focus pulling seems to be a dieing art, but was the only way for sports, children, dogs etc. way back when. It does take practice, but once mastered it's faster than any auto focus and much less prone to error.

**monochrome** · 01-29-2013, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by ChrisJ

Focus pulling seems to be a dieing art, but was the only way for sports, children, dogs etc. way back when.

I do recall crisp newspaper shots of the vectors of a ball and bat intersecting, caught stop-motion, from the last century <g>. I also recall some shot with two eyes open for some strange reason.

ASa · 01-29-2013, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

I also recall some shot with two eyes open for some strange reason.

I believe this technique is used for better framing. This way you will see what's left outside of the image you're about to take. This is also a recommended technique when aiming, as it won't stress your eye muscles and your eyesight remains clearer for longer periods. I guess same would apply when aiming through a VF

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01-28-2013, 02:27 PM	#16
Khoff2 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 84	Originally posted by mrbdm99 I'm going to go off topic just a bit here and say something that I'm sure has been covered on this forum any number of times, but AF isn't needed to take great (in focus!) sports images, keep up with moving kids, etc. That said, seeing as my K-01 is still not here, I'm not sure how practical it would be to do these things (focus peaking or not) on a live view screen, but there are millions of action packed images that were taken well before the advent of AF. I know I used to take a lot of action images with no AF (and no flash for that matter) on high speed B&W film using a hand me down K1000 and Canon AE-1. Of course I'm not saying that a great AF system doesn't help and isn't/wasn't game changing, just that it is not necessary. Sorry, ranting. I get tired of hearing that the AF system is the end all, be all of camerdom. That said, with my aging eyes, it is helpful A very valid point indeed. I used to shoot for my high school yearbook using an old minolta and manual focus. If i could find a decent manual focus zoom for this k-01, I might consider keeping it. The lens would have to have a fast and easy to grip focus ring. Any recommendations?

01-28-2013, 03:17 PM	#17
mrbdm99 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 83	Originally posted by Khoff2 A very valid point indeed. I used to shoot for my high school yearbook using an old minolta and manual focus. If i could find a decent manual focus zoom for this k-01, I might consider keeping it. The lens would have to have a fast and easy to grip focus ring. Any recommendations? Ha, same place I was using said manual everything! Funny how high school year books always have old equipment. I can't comment on good zoom's as I seem to only have prime's, other than a kit zoom from a ZX-5 I used a while back.

01-28-2013, 05:46 PM	#19
Shihaochew New Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: 220.255.1.159 Posts: 15 Original Poster	Wow. Nice post! I guess that's one of the problem with AF, as the AF 'square' is often too big and not precise enough. Seems like although many have considered replacing their dslr with k01, none have actually done so yet.

01-28-2013, 06:01 PM	#20
Jamey777 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 426	Using the K01 in Tav mode is fun, basically just set the camera to M mode, and if you are on auto ISO it will let you put whatever shutter speed and aperture you like (within the bounds of your ISO range of course) So basica flow is > Set to M mode > Press green button > Adjust shutter or aperture (one dial so you have to push the Av/Exposure button to toggle) > Focus > Take picture I do this all the time with children ages 3 weeks on up no problems. I certainly get more in focus shots with this camera than I did my K10. Also no back / front focus. I can't tell you how much better these photos are. Oh and I have a manual focus lens now (50mm 1.4 A) and with focus peaking it is the most fun I have had using a camera. I would have been miserable on the K10 trying to manual focus. My only gripes are the grip isn't ergonomic for my hand, and the LCD is a pain in sunlight. There are solutions for those (change grip, get a sun shield) Jamey

01-28-2013, 06:01 PM	#21
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Khoff2, it also depends on what AF mode you used, but that black frame against the white wall is the highest contrast point in the picture, so naturally the camera is going to go after it.

01-28-2013, 06:20 PM	#22
snkenai Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 113	I have found that "peaking" with the K-01 and -M 50mm F1'7, gives too much "shimmer", in bright light, stopped down, with high contrast landscape. I prefer to turn it off. It is very useful for some subjects, especially in low light, and open aperture. The comparison of MF moving subjects, with old film cameras with VF and split/image, verses LCD, is not even close in my experience (old eyes). The VF and focus screen gives a much more positive indication. The LCD does have other advantages.

01-28-2013, 06:37 PM	#23
Jamey777 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 426	I haven't used it for landscapes, only indoors with kids. I will have to see if I have that problem as well. Landscapes don't move. Should be easy to check focus. It's not a DSLR but I am pretty sure I will be fine without one.

01-28-2013, 06:41 PM	#24
snkenai Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 113	I didn't mean to give a negative impression of the K-01. In fact I love it outdoors on tripod. (shaky hands)

01-28-2013, 07:24 PM	#25
Ikarus Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: California Photos: Albums Posts: 484	Originally posted by Khoff2 Just did a manual vs auto focus test with the K-01 and 40xs. Both time I focused on the banister post. The AF seems to have focused on the wall, where as the MF was spot on (2nd photo). I used focus peaking to see the white outline in the wood grain. Hmmmm I'm guessing you have the focus mode set to 'face detect'. One of the first things I did to my K-01 was changing it to spot focus.

01-28-2013, 07:56 PM	#26
Khoff2 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 84	Nope, spot for me as well. I tried it a couple of more times with better success.

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01-29-2013, 03:08 AM	#27
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Khoff2 Just did a manual vs auto focus test with the K-01 and 40xs. Both time I focused on the banister post. The AF seems to have focused on the wall, where as the MF was spot on (2nd photo). I used focus peaking to see the white outline in the wood grain. Hmmmm Well this is very simple. The square you are using for AF is bigger then the subject. In that square it chooses the biggest contrast, wich is the black-white frame on the wall. So the K-01 functions as to be expected!

01-29-2013, 04:18 AM	#28
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316	Auto focus is not a total panacea on any camera, it's just as likely to focus where you don't want it to as where you do and it delays shutter release. I prefer to use a lot of old manual focus lenses (cheap, but with great image quality), used correctly manual focus can be an asset, pre-set the focus using the Depth of Field scale, then you don't have to worry about focus, you KNOW it's in focus and can concentrate on framing the shot and 'the moment', as there will be zero shutter lag. Focus pulling seems to be a dieing art, but was the only way for sports, children, dogs etc. way back when. It does take practice, but once mastered it's faster than any auto focus and much less prone to error.

01-29-2013, 04:27 AM	#29
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by ChrisJ Focus pulling seems to be a dieing art, but was the only way for sports, children, dogs etc. way back when. I do recall crisp newspaper shots of the vectors of a ball and bat intersecting, caught stop-motion, from the last century <g>. I also recall some shot with two eyes open for some strange reason.

01-29-2013, 04:47 AM	#30
ASa Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Tampere/Helsinki Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 218	Originally posted by monochrome I also recall some shot with two eyes open for some strange reason. I believe this technique is used for better framing. This way you will see what's left outside of the image you're about to take. This is also a recommended technique when aiming, as it won't stress your eye muscles and your eyesight remains clearer for longer periods. I guess same would apply when aiming through a VF