Rip k-01

gylfimag · 03-02-2013, 02:43 PM

The demise of the K-01 without a replacement is regrettable.

It was an interesting concept and was - and still is of course - a great camera. I have one and really like it, the IQ is great and the camera is a joy to use. I also like its looks but of course opinions differ on this.

Pentax however made several mistakes which doomed the camera commercially. The first one was to rush the camera to market with a firmware that was not ready for release. They had not mastered contrast-detect auto-focus in firmware 1.00 and should have spent a couple of more months working on this before releasing the camera. With firmware 1.01 the camera has little trouble focusing under most scenarios (not a camera for professional sports photographers but good enough for the rest of us in most instances). Since almost all the reviews were based on the initial version, they were not as favorable as they could have been and the camera now deserves, with much improved firmware.

I don't know how many people in general upgrade the firmware of their camera when a new one is available but I doubt that the percentage is very high. This means that there are probably far too many who have a K-01 and still use the original firmware and they are probably not very happy with the focus system. That can't help sales either.

The second mistake was to try so hard to counter the depth of the camera by providing a very thin standard lens. The 40mm XS lens is quite reasonable IQ wise and certainly very small but it was not a good choice. The focal length is simply too long. Something in the range of 24-35mm would have been far more attractive and could probably have been made fairly thin as well. A compact zoom lens (perhaps extending into the camera since there is no mirror to worry about) would also have been a better option. Canon sells a 22mm lens with its EOS-M which seems quite reasonable (it has a slightly smaller sensor than the K-01). If Pentax wanted to save money by relying on a prior design they could even have picked the DA 21mm. In addition, the XS lens is for some reason horribly noisy when focusing. Personally I find my FA35mm lens much more useful than the XS.

The third mistake was made in the initial pricing, it was a bit too high. It is after all a camera with entry level features, even if the IQ and the build quality is excellent and the design unique. It should have been priced accordingly.

There were a few other minor mistakes or weaknesses that matter far less. The right-hand side door or flap is one of them. It does not bother me, but it is not good engineering. The slow fps rate in raw mode is another. It does not bother me much either. The white noise on audio tracks does bother me a bit, even if it can be removed in post-processing. All of this could easily have been solved in a K-02 or K-01s or K-01 Super but apparently that is not going to happen.

**monochrome** · 03-02-2013, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by gylfimag

Pentax however made several mistakes which doomed the camera commercially.

Valid post-mortem statements all. Initial reviews, were they more even-handed and suggestive of these improvements, rather than outright dismissive, would have helped.

No doubt Pentax did a poor job initially marketing the camera, especially in the USA. They clearly need better relationships with the online and reviewer community and that might be forthcoming.

I still believe the total dismissal of and scorn for the attempt was unwarranted.

**monochrome** · 03-02-2013, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by robtcorl

Nice to see many of us can think for ourselves, and do not let others dictate to us what we should think.

Originally posted by squareeyes

RobtCorl: Isn't that the slickest combination?! The F 35-70 is really snappy on the K-01 and compact enough to fit my coat pockets. It may be large to be called a compact, but it is small enough for me.

F35~70 as originally conceived by the PentaxGods:

and as subsequently re-imagined . . . .

Quick snaps with a Q - not much care taken and nothing done but resize

**THoog** · 03-02-2013, 07:38 PM

If anything, I think the F35-70 looks better on the Pandatrooper:

No complaints from me for what the lens can do on the K-01:

**monochrome** · 03-02-2013, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by THoog

If anything, I think the F35-70 looks better on the Pandatrooper:

Oh most definitely. Black favors DA Limiteds (and the 3 Queens) and K lenses (and is surprisingly attractive with 70's Vivitar lenses - the marking match the M&M button colors). I was more contrasting it mounted on my K-01 with the SF1n. Did you see it on Bob's White one @ #69?

I was this close to hitting the BUY button at B&H this morning. If the Yellow was still available with the 40XS I would have - but I'm supposed to be in de-acquisitioning mode right now.

**THoog** · 03-02-2013, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Oh most definitely. Black favors DA Limiteds (and the 3 Queens) and K lenses (and is surprisingly attractive with 70's Vivitar lenses - the marking match the M&M button colors). I was more contrasting it mounted on my K-01 with the SF1n. Did you see it on Bob's White one @ #69?

Yes, not quite sure why I included mine - getting close to bedtime, I guess.

It is a great little lens, tho'. I'm trying to figure out if the Rikenon P 35-70 is just the A 35-70 / F 35-70 optics in sheep's/cheap clothing - the size is almost the same, the IQ is actually pretty good, and Pentax made a couple XR lenses for Ricoh, or so I'm told.

Originally posted by monochrome

I was this close to hitting the BUY button at B&H this morning. If the Yellow was still available with the 40XS I would have - but I'm supposed to be in de-acquisitioning mode right now.

One reason why I indulged my CBA with the K-01 is that it filled a niche that I didn't know I had (isn't that the case for all LBA/CBA?

), and I would feel a void without it, should something bad happen to it (again, that is - waiting two months for a replacement shutter was irritating).

johnmflores · 03-02-2013, 09:35 PM - **1 Like**

You know that line we feed people when they ask us why we bought a Pentax DSLR instead of a Canon or Nikon, "It's the photographer, not the camera, that makes the image."?

[COPY]

"K-01 was a failure. Other mirrorless cameras are better."

[PASTE]

Long live the K-01!

goldenarrow · 03-03-2013, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

You know that line we feed people when they ask us why we bought a Pentax DSLR instead of a Canon or Nikon, "It's the photographer, not the camera, that makes the image."?

[COPY]

"K-01 was a failure. Other mirrorless cameras are better."

[PASTE]

Extremely basic Business 101. McDonald's sells Double Cheeseburgers for $5 each and can't sell any. They price it at $1 and it flys off the shelves. Duh!!! The product is the SAME, only the price and the marketing saavy are different. Then they MAKE MONEY by selling overpriced fries and sugar water with it. DUH!!!

Pentax needs to go back to Business school and figure out how to SELL. How about a modular camera just like the K-01 (APS-C) but with all kinds of options you can add to it. Basic price for basic functions, then the options open up things for advanced usage. And get rid of the "designer" moniker crap....

Yes, long live the K-01.

JJJPhoto · 03-03-2013, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by goldenarrow

Extremely basic Business 101. McDonald's sells Double Cheeseburgers for $5 each and can't sell any. They price it at $1 and it flys off the shelves. Duh!!! The product is the SAME, only the price and the marketing saavy are different. Then they MAKE MONEY by selling overpriced fries and sugar water with it. DUH!!!

Pentax needs to go back to Business school and figure out how to SELL. How about a modular camera just like the K-01 (APS-C) but with all kinds of options you can add to it. Basic price for basic functions, then the options open up things for advanced usage. And get rid of the "designer" moniker crap....

Yes, long live the K-01.

Actually, now that you say that, I should be a case study for Pentax sales and marketing.

I abandoned Pentax several years ago and sold all my Pentax gear (several thousand dollars worth). I've been using gear from other brands since. When the K-01 dropped to closeout prices I picked one up. I fell in love with using the K-01 and quickly bought a second K-01 and five lenses. So, Pentax lost some money selling me a K-01 and 40mm lens for $320 and a second K-01 body for $299 ... but then I purchased $2,600 in new Pentax lenses.

Grand total spent on a "cheap" camera = $3,220 and some change.

I'm not saying everyone who bought a K-01 spent that kind of money in extra Pentax lenses ... but if you don't sell your cameras in the first place then no one buys the lenses.

NickLarsson · 03-03-2013, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by goldenarrow

Extremely basic Business 101. McDonald's sells Double Cheeseburgers for $5 each and can't sell any. They price it at $1 and it flys off the shelves. Duh!!! The product is the SAME, only the price and the marketing saavy are different. Then they MAKE MONEY by selling overpriced fries and sugar water with it. DUH!!!

Pentax needs to go back to Business school and figure out how to SELL. How about a modular camera just like the K-01 (APS-C) but with all kinds of options you can add to it. Basic price for basic functions, then the options open up things for advanced usage. And get rid of the "designer" moniker crap....

Yes, long live the K-01.

But I'm not sure that selling the K-01 with overpriced fries would be a good idea

Laurentiu Cristofor · 03-03-2013, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Initial reviews, were they more even-handed and suggestive of these improvements, rather than outright dismissive, would have helped.

So it was the fault of the reviews, not of the product that generated them! Blame the effect for the cause.

Originally posted by johnmflores

Long live the K-01!

This is hilarious to see in a thread titled "Rip k-01".

Originally posted by Rob22315

Your unfailing belief that your logic is unassailable is fundamentally flawed. At it's core, it's just another internet opinion - just like mine. Embrace your humanity and admit your shortcomings like everyone else.

Originally posted by GeneV

Unless your posts are generated by a computer, you are not devoid of emotion or irrationality. The strength of the language you use seems to have the same effect on everyone who reads it.

Hmm, typical reactions indeed when you don't have any meaningful arguments - avoid the arguments presented by the other party and derail discussion over their person. There is even a name for this - personal attack - and it speaks a lot about those that engage in it.

**monochrome** · 03-03-2013, 08:11 PM

I wrote Pentax erred. They aren't without fault. But the camera is a good effort.

If all the people who have tried it - and like it - in the last three months had tried it in the first three months it wouldn't be dead. Many members who were skeptical and even negative last year have tried it at the lower prices and are quite happy with the camera just as it is.

You, specifically and personally, had a significant hand in convincing people not to try it in the first three months, as you and I discussed at length last year, and you persist even as the last stocks are being fire-saled.

Rob22315 · 03-03-2013, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Hmm, typical reactions indeed when you don't have any meaningful arguments - avoid the arguments presented by the other party and derail discussion over their person. There is even a name for this - personal attack - and it speaks a lot about those that engage in it.

I see no evidence you tried a k-01. Arguments based on pictures and others' reviews are worthless. What you did offer as logic was your opinion, not logic. Please take that as whatever kind of attack you see fit.

johnmflores · 03-03-2013, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

This is hilarious to see in a thread titled "Rip k-01".

Mine still works (as nearly all of the ones sold in the last year I'd imagine), your opinion of the camera notwithstanding. So yes, long live the K-01!

Oh, and looky here, another published photo (full page) from this awful camera

johnmflores · 03-03-2013, 08:35 PM

Oh, and looky here, a couple more published photos taken with the K-01

That last one, btw, was ISO3200. Damn K-01, too slow to capture action.

03-02-2013, 03:20 PM	#78
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	That SF1n certainly isn't a pocket camera!! Originally posted by robtcorl Nice to see many of us can think for ourselves, and do not let others dictate to us what we should think. Originally posted by squareeyes RobtCorl: Isn't that the slickest combination?! The F 35-70 is really snappy on the K-01 and compact enough to fit my coat pockets. It may be large to be called a compact, but it is small enough for me. F35~70 as originally conceived by the PentaxGods: and as subsequently re-imagined . . . . Quick snaps with a Q - not much care taken and nothing done but resize

03-03-2013, 01:36 PM	#83
goldenarrow Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chicago Suburbs. Photos: Gallery Posts: 501	Pentax failed, not the K-01!! Originally posted by johnmflores You know that line we feed people when they ask us why we bought a Pentax DSLR instead of a Canon or Nikon, "It's the photographer, not the camera, that makes the image."? [COPY] "K-01 was a failure. Other mirrorless cameras are better." [PASTE] Extremely basic Business 101. McDonald's sells Double Cheeseburgers for $5 each and can't sell any. They price it at $1 and it flys off the shelves. Duh!!! The product is the SAME, only the price and the marketing saavy are different. Then they MAKE MONEY by selling overpriced fries and sugar water with it. DUH!!! Pentax needs to go back to Business school and figure out how to SELL. How about a modular camera just like the K-01 (APS-C) but with all kinds of options you can add to it. Basic price for basic functions, then the options open up things for advanced usage. And get rid of the "designer" moniker crap.... Yes, long live the K-01.

03-03-2013, 08:11 PM	#87
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	I wrote Pentax erred. They aren't without fault. But the camera is a good effort. If all the people who have tried it - and like it - in the last three months had tried it in the first three months it wouldn't be dead. Many members who were skeptical and even negative last year have tried it at the lower prices and are quite happy with the camera just as it is. You, specifically and personally, had a significant hand in convincing people not to try it in the first three months, as you and I discussed at length last year, and you persist even as the last stocks are being fire-saled. Last edited by monochrome; 03-03-2013 at 08:28 PM.

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03-02-2013, 02:43 PM	#76
gylfimag Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 90	The demise of the K-01 without a replacement is regrettable. It was an interesting concept and was - and still is of course - a great camera. I have one and really like it, the IQ is great and the camera is a joy to use. I also like its looks but of course opinions differ on this. Pentax however made several mistakes which doomed the camera commercially. The first one was to rush the camera to market with a firmware that was not ready for release. They had not mastered contrast-detect auto-focus in firmware 1.00 and should have spent a couple of more months working on this before releasing the camera. With firmware 1.01 the camera has little trouble focusing under most scenarios (not a camera for professional sports photographers but good enough for the rest of us in most instances). Since almost all the reviews were based on the initial version, they were not as favorable as they could have been and the camera now deserves, with much improved firmware. I don't know how many people in general upgrade the firmware of their camera when a new one is available but I doubt that the percentage is very high. This means that there are probably far too many who have a K-01 and still use the original firmware and they are probably not very happy with the focus system. That can't help sales either. The second mistake was to try so hard to counter the depth of the camera by providing a very thin standard lens. The 40mm XS lens is quite reasonable IQ wise and certainly very small but it was not a good choice. The focal length is simply too long. Something in the range of 24-35mm would have been far more attractive and could probably have been made fairly thin as well. A compact zoom lens (perhaps extending into the camera since there is no mirror to worry about) would also have been a better option. Canon sells a 22mm lens with its EOS-M which seems quite reasonable (it has a slightly smaller sensor than the K-01). If Pentax wanted to save money by relying on a prior design they could even have picked the DA 21mm. In addition, the XS lens is for some reason horribly noisy when focusing. Personally I find my FA35mm lens much more useful than the XS. The third mistake was made in the initial pricing, it was a bit too high. It is after all a camera with entry level features, even if the IQ and the build quality is excellent and the design unique. It should have been priced accordingly. There were a few other minor mistakes or weaknesses that matter far less. The right-hand side door or flap is one of them. It does not bother me, but it is not good engineering. The slow fps rate in raw mode is another. It does not bother me much either. The white noise on audio tracks does bother me a bit, even if it can be removed in post-processing. All of this could easily have been solved in a K-02 or K-01s or K-01 Super but apparently that is not going to happen.

03-02-2013, 02:50 PM	#77
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by gylfimag Pentax however made several mistakes which doomed the camera commercially. Valid post-mortem statements all. Initial reviews, were they more even-handed and suggestive of these improvements, rather than outright dismissive, would have helped. No doubt Pentax did a poor job initially marketing the camera, especially in the USA. They clearly need better relationships with the online and reviewer community and that might be forthcoming. I still believe the total dismissal of and scorn for the attempt was unwarranted.

03-02-2013, 07:38 PM	#79
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	If anything, I think the F35-70 looks better on the Pandatrooper: No complaints from me for what the lens can do on the K-01:

03-02-2013, 07:54 PM	#80
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by THoog If anything, I think the F35-70 looks better on the Pandatrooper: Oh most definitely. Black favors DA Limiteds (and the 3 Queens) and K lenses (and is surprisingly attractive with 70's Vivitar lenses - the marking match the M&M button colors). I was more contrasting it mounted on my K-01 with the SF1n. Did you see it on Bob's White one @ #69? I was this close to hitting the BUY button at B&H this morning. If the Yellow was still available with the 40XS I would have - but I'm supposed to be in de-acquisitioning mode right now.

03-02-2013, 08:25 PM	#81
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by monochrome Oh most definitely. Black favors DA Limiteds (and the 3 Queens) and K lenses (and is surprisingly attractive with 70's Vivitar lenses - the marking match the M&M button colors). I was more contrasting it mounted on my K-01 with the SF1n. Did you see it on Bob's White one @ #69? Yes, not quite sure why I included mine - getting close to bedtime, I guess. It is a great little lens, tho'. I'm trying to figure out if the Rikenon P 35-70 is just the A 35-70 / F 35-70 optics in sheep's/cheap clothing - the size is almost the same, the IQ is actually pretty good, and Pentax made a couple XR lenses for Ricoh, or so I'm told. Originally posted by monochrome I was this close to hitting the BUY button at B&H this morning. If the Yellow was still available with the 40XS I would have - but I'm supposed to be in de-acquisitioning mode right now. One reason why I indulged my CBA with the K-01 is that it filled a niche that I didn't know I had (isn't that the case for all LBA/CBA? ), and I would feel a void without it, should something bad happen to it (again, that is - waiting two months for a replacement shutter was irritating).

03-02-2013, 09:35 PM - 1 Like	#82
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	You know that line we feed people when they ask us why we bought a Pentax DSLR instead of a Canon or Nikon, "It's the photographer, not the camera, that makes the image."? [COPY] "K-01 was a failure. Other mirrorless cameras are better." [PASTE] Long live the K-01!

03-03-2013, 05:10 PM	#84
JJJPhoto Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 419	Originally posted by goldenarrow Extremely basic Business 101. McDonald's sells Double Cheeseburgers for $5 each and can't sell any. They price it at $1 and it flys off the shelves. Duh!!! The product is the SAME, only the price and the marketing saavy are different. Then they MAKE MONEY by selling overpriced fries and sugar water with it. DUH!!! Pentax needs to go back to Business school and figure out how to SELL. How about a modular camera just like the K-01 (APS-C) but with all kinds of options you can add to it. Basic price for basic functions, then the options open up things for advanced usage. And get rid of the "designer" moniker crap.... Yes, long live the K-01. Actually, now that you say that, I should be a case study for Pentax sales and marketing. I abandoned Pentax several years ago and sold all my Pentax gear (several thousand dollars worth). I've been using gear from other brands since. When the K-01 dropped to closeout prices I picked one up. I fell in love with using the K-01 and quickly bought a second K-01 and five lenses. So, Pentax lost some money selling me a K-01 and 40mm lens for $320 and a second K-01 body for $299 ... but then I purchased $2,600 in new Pentax lenses. Grand total spent on a "cheap" camera = $3,220 and some change. I'm not saying everyone who bought a K-01 spent that kind of money in extra Pentax lenses ... but if you don't sell your cameras in the first place then no one buys the lenses.

03-03-2013, 05:20 PM	#85
NickLarsson Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,390	Originally posted by goldenarrow Extremely basic Business 101. McDonald's sells Double Cheeseburgers for $5 each and can't sell any. They price it at $1 and it flys off the shelves. Duh!!! The product is the SAME, only the price and the marketing saavy are different. Then they MAKE MONEY by selling overpriced fries and sugar water with it. DUH!!! Pentax needs to go back to Business school and figure out how to SELL. How about a modular camera just like the K-01 (APS-C) but with all kinds of options you can add to it. Basic price for basic functions, then the options open up things for advanced usage. And get rid of the "designer" moniker crap.... Yes, long live the K-01. But I'm not sure that selling the K-01 with overpriced fries would be a good idea

03-03-2013, 07:40 PM	#86
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by monochrome Initial reviews, were they more even-handed and suggestive of these improvements, rather than outright dismissive, would have helped. So it was the fault of the reviews, not of the product that generated them! Blame the effect for the cause. Originally posted by johnmflores Long live the K-01! This is hilarious to see in a thread titled "Rip k-01". Originally posted by Rob22315 Your unfailing belief that your logic is unassailable is fundamentally flawed. At it's core, it's just another internet opinion - just like mine. Embrace your humanity and admit your shortcomings like everyone else. Originally posted by GeneV Unless your posts are generated by a computer, you are not devoid of emotion or irrationality. The strength of the language you use seems to have the same effect on everyone who reads it. Hmm, typical reactions indeed when you don't have any meaningful arguments - avoid the arguments presented by the other party and derail discussion over their person. There is even a name for this - personal attack - and it speaks a lot about those that engage in it.

03-03-2013, 08:14 PM	#88
Rob22315 Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alexandria VA USA Posts: 315	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Hmm, typical reactions indeed when you don't have any meaningful arguments - avoid the arguments presented by the other party and derail discussion over their person. There is even a name for this - personal attack - and it speaks a lot about those that engage in it. I see no evidence you tried a k-01. Arguments based on pictures and others' reviews are worthless. What you did offer as logic was your opinion, not logic. Please take that as whatever kind of attack you see fit.

03-03-2013, 08:24 PM	#89
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor This is hilarious to see in a thread titled "Rip k-01". Mine still works (as nearly all of the ones sold in the last year I'd imagine), your opinion of the camera notwithstanding. So yes, long live the K-01! Oh, and looky here, another published photo (full page) from this awful camera

03-03-2013, 08:35 PM	#90
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Oh, and looky here, a couple more published photos taken with the K-01 That last one, btw, was ISO3200. Damn K-01, too slow to capture action.