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04-24-2013, 12:50 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Very very nice. Yummy.

We *definitely* need more of THAT!!!


So this is what I basicly take picyures off

QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
Some serious hunkage and to top it some Swedish hunkage! I can assure you that I help lowering the "Swedish standards" compared to the that.
Interestingly nobody feels repulsed by that pic even though he got very little clothing. I understand that he is in a very public place and in the spotlight though. Still I don't see the difference when it comes the "sexually explicit" factor that seems to be the limiting factor in where you can shoot in the public.
It is Olympic swimmer Simon Sjödin!

04-24-2013, 04:23 AM - 1 Like   #32
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OK, first off, Torrey Pines State Beach is in the U.S. near San Diego, so the advise about Germany, Sweden and Australia, while useful to people living in or visiting those countries, are rather irrelevant to the OP. Telling a shooter he'd be arrested for shooting pics in your country has nothing to do with him shooting them in the U.S.. And it has frankly dragged the thread off topic which was supposed to be how to get sharp photos out of a 300mm at the beach (or anywhere for that matter).

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You can't tell me those horrible photos in the National Enquirer, the stars have signed model releases for those.... the issue is a little more complicated than that, but yes, it's not cool.
National Enquirer and similar publications operate under the principle that if it can be seen from a public place then there is no expectation of privacy. They also publish the shots as "editorial" material which in most countries does not require a model release.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
There's more than one side of the issue, for sure, I always figure, don't take a picture if when the person you took it of saw it, they'd think it was creepy. I don't think pictures on a public event would qualify... there would be some expectaion of photography. I really don't what the issue is. If you want to take a picture of somebody where there is any chance there would be an expectation of privacy, ask them. Is that too difficult?
Frankly, I don't believe anyone hanging out on any public beach can have any reasonable expectation of privacy. They may WISH for privacy, but it does not truly exist when they are in a publicly accessible space. Even on a private beach, unless the surrounding waters are somehow restricted or are sufficiently remote, there can be no true expectation of privacy.

Basically, if you are not willing to risk being photographed by random strangers while hanging out on a public beach in your bikini, your speedo, or in the all-together, then you probably need to find somewhere else to get your dose of sun and sand.

Mike
04-24-2013, 06:14 AM   #33
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General street photography cannot get you sued in the U.S. He he were to work them up in a commercial for Gatorade or sun tan lotion, that would be a different story. It may get you some dirty looks or maybe even a pose.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Maybe one more word about this. Who really needs to know more will proably find more informed threads elsewhere in the forum.

Obviously, I know the situation in Germany better than in other countries. In Germany at least, the first two images infringe the individual's rights on their inagrs. The subjects could sue the photographer. If used commercially or not has nothing to do with it.

However, other rights must be in balance. This is why in Germany, it is allowed to publish people which are only secondary elements in a photograph, or people where the public has an interest in, be it for a single event or for the person as such. In Austria, it is additionally legal to publish people if shown in a non compromising situation of any kind. Ths makes Austria an interesting location for me when doing street photography.

However, publishing a photo of one or two unknowns on the beach is a no go for photographers abd would be illegal in Germany, Austria and many their countries, even if for art or non commercially. And having a child depicted doesn't help in the US ...

BTW, asking is good advice. But has little value (except if you film it). Without a release, it is a matter of mutual trust as the subject may still sue you. E.g., I see professional photographers exchanging paper work with the subject when doing their Dirndl photography at Munich Oktoberfest. And on German TV, many walk-by people have blurred faces (with the unblurred ones obviously having given permission).

Overall, the situation in the US is less restrictive, e.g., the article about Germany:
-> Recht am eigenen Bild ? Wikipedia

has no English translation. So, at the end of the day, it is just a question of what goes. As most subjects would never notice ...
04-24-2013, 06:22 AM   #34
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When I take folks out canoe tripping, I hand them a model release. Most of them sign it, knowing that if I get a nice image of them it will go on my website to promote the business. I once took a lawyer out, and she refused to sign it saying it was too general. And yes, she was the "hot young babe" there with her boyfriend. You can't assume people don't care. Simply stated a lot of young women don't want their image "out there."

04-24-2013, 06:22 AM - 1 Like   #35
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Here is an old one with the K200d and DA 55-300mm. I don't have this lens anymore. I am not sure I would like using a large lens on my K-01, but do like it with various compact primes.

04-24-2013, 06:24 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
When I take folks out canoe tripping, I hand them a model release. Most of them sign it, knowing that if I get a nice image of them it will go on my website to promote the business. I once took a lawyer out, and she refused to sign it saying it was too general. And yes, she was the "hot young babe" there with her boyfriend. You can't assume people don't care. Simply stated a lot of young women don't want their image "out there."
That is a different situation from street photography. Plus it was for use to promote a product.
04-24-2013, 06:44 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote

So this is what I basicly take picyures off

It is Olympic swimmer Simon Sjödin!
<sigh>.

So nice.

04-24-2013, 06:46 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
OK, first off, Torrey Pines State Beach is in the U.S. near San Diego, so the advise about Germany, Sweden and Australia, while useful to people living in or visiting those countries, are rather irrelevant to the OP. Telling a shooter he'd be arrested for shooting pics in your country has nothing to do with him shooting them in the U.S.. And it has frankly dragged the thread off topic which was supposed to be how to get sharp photos out of a 300mm at the beach (or anywhere for that matter).



National Enquirer and similar publications operate under the principle that if it can be seen from a public place then there is no expectation of privacy. They also publish the shots as "editorial" material which in most countries does not require a model release.



Frankly, I don't believe anyone hanging out on any public beach can have any reasonable expectation of privacy. They may WISH for privacy, but it does not truly exist when they are in a publicly accessible space. Even on a private beach, unless the surrounding waters are somehow restricted or are sufficiently remote, there can be no true expectation of privacy.

Basically, if you are not willing to risk being photographed by random strangers while hanging out on a public beach in your bikini, your speedo, or in the all-together, then you probably need to find somewhere else to get your dose of sun and sand.

Mike
Yep. Agree 100% and accurate in my interpretation of the laws in the USA.
In public spaces there is no expectation of privacy.

04-24-2013, 10:01 AM   #39
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So let's go back to the 300mm lens discussion. How this device crops what we see, tremendously. So that what was a small amount of bare skin in the 'what-we-see' frame becomes a LOT of bare skin in the 'as-photographed' frame. And the effect is just the same as the way newspapers used to crop pictures of people -- forget the head 'n shoulders, just get in tight on the face, crop off the top of the head... for visual impact... to sell more newspapers.

Truly a 'what you see is what you get', emotionally, that 300mm picture. And then if you crop it further in post, wow. What I've learned from all this is that the 300mm lens is somewhat like booze or dope... a little bit's great, more makes you think its great, and a lot more makes a real mess.

And we haven't even touched yet on perspective compression!
04-24-2013, 01:26 PM   #40
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Long teles are a different world from wideangles as you say. While wade lenses are more about capturing a "true" scene, tele's are more about seeing exactly whay the photographer wants you to see. In a way it's actually way more stupid as it often provides less food for thought. That's probably why stupid little me loves tele lenses!
04-24-2013, 03:48 PM   #41
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upskirt

Just remembered this one:

Google Vertalen

So the man was taking images upskirt with an analoge camera (in 2011) and did this already for years. People upset, but in the end there was no line in our laws to punish him. What is the difference between upskirt or in your sleeves or under your shoes.
04-25-2013, 12:19 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
@normhead -- when I'm out in public, no, I don't feel I have any right to control images of myself.
I know, this thread is about the lens.
But this comment adds a political dimension, I think.

If there is no sense of control about the own image when in public, then is is to be expected that video monitoring not only is ubiquous. But that such content circulates in an uncontrolled manner, be it for Homeland Security, Ad campaings, Special Interest web sites etc. All after running a decent face recognition, of course. That can't be good. IMHO, a country better has a law to restrict such things. We should not become trackable by private companies buying monitoring content from ubiquous cameras. In Germany, this would be illegal (for said reasons), in the US, not (it seems).,

QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
Interestingly nobody feels repulsed by that pic even though he got very little clothing.
Again speaking for Germany. The right about the own image is lifted if it is a public event where one plays an important role (the typical example is a conference speaker at the conference, but a swimmer at a sports event is a great one too). The right for free speech then ranks higher than the right about one's image. Clothing (or lack of) doesn't play any role in all of this.

And thanks for all the great 300mm images in this thread
04-25-2013, 02:15 PM   #43
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@falconeye -- the recent digital-imaging manhunt in Boston has implications. Private company or government, technology enables personal tracking. But this is nothing new. In your country, the Nazi government used IBM Hollerith punch-cards to track both SS soldiers and Jewish camp inmates. Both had ID tattoos; both were part of the Hollerith system. IBM-USA took profits on this from IBM-Germany until 1942 or 1943, when Congress finally cut them off.

Computerization takes this to a whole new level. Going back to the 300mm lens. Not hard to imagine a scenario where a face-ID program picked up a 'person of interest', and then automatically directed a succession of long-lens zoom cameras to get in close and follow the subject. Or, if one of the cameras had an attached rifle, to 'take out' the subject using the long lens as a telescopic sight for the face-recognition software. {IF Hans THEN fire ENDIF;}

I guess my point is that people will always use technology to further their aims. Public or private. As above, for controlling others. Or for art, which gets us back to lenses. Like Italy, around 1600, when the first decent glass lenses from Murano finally got into the hand of artists, and you could sit a guy in a chair in the sun outside your camera obscura, with your lens stuck in the wall, and trace the inverted image on a canvas in the dark, inside. The perspective in paintings sure changed dramatically after artists got those lenses. Foreshortening! Compression! After 1600, images that had never been painted before... because our eyes just automatically compensate for perspective distortion..

And we might be on the edge of even more. I have a little Olympus SZ-10... with a 504mm (135-equivalent) lens ... fits in my shirt pocket. Poor image quality, but then, it cost very little, And a zillion of these consumer-grade pocket rockets may change what we think of as a 'normal' look for photos. Foreshortening on crack cocaine! So I'll throw out a hypothesis that extreme telephoto lens effects change our culture, and leave it to greater minds than mine to figure out exactly how.

Meantime, the clouds have cleared and the sun's out. And today, in the name of God, Mom, Apple Pie and the American Way, I'll be using my 16-45mm lens so as not to upset anyone!

Last edited by jon404; 04-25-2013 at 02:24 PM.
04-25-2013, 09:35 PM   #44
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People don't go to the beach for modesty or the expectation of such from others. So the images shot there are no more a breach of privacy than being allowed to look at the scenes before you.



04-25-2013, 10:08 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
People don't go to the beach for modesty or the expectation of such from others. So the images shot there are no more a breach of privacy than being allowed to look at the scenes before you.


Donuts....aaaaarrrghhh
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