300mm at the beach

VisualDarkness · 04-22-2013, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

If you cover an event of public interest, of have many faces within a single image, publication is not restricted. It is images of individual persons which are not relevant in the context of a public event which need the depicted person's permission.

Amazing how different the laws are compared to just over the sea, in Sweden. Here there's no such laws, even though they are in the works. The new law is supposed to tighten up "offensive photography", but that is things like candid cameras in toilets and such and not regular shooting in public areas.

You can almost always take pics of people and publicize as long as it isn't advertising or defamating manner. You can shoot in and at all areas except national protected ones. Public places are always fine unless you cross the line of harassment (nothing to do with photography). You can shoot in private areas as long as you do it in a lawful way and they can tell you to leave but not take your pics. As long as you stand in a public place and not trespass private grounds you can freely shoot into windows and other private areas, though not harass.

As you can see the right to use public places is very strong in Sweden (as you know with hiking and such too) and basically if you can see the person with your eyes it's fine to use your camera too. The right to freedom of speech and art is very highly regarded and the openness of the society too, easily seen if checking how easy it is to find personal information here (address, phone, personal social number, yearly income etc).

Two countries so close but completely different, quite interesting ey?

jon404 · 04-22-2013, 05:33 PM

There are possible elements of humor. Like if a photographer went to nude beaches, and then took photos of people from shoulders to knees, no faces... nothing identifiable. But wait! No, that's MY appendix scar! Not to mention tattoos...

Went down the coast to La Jolla today. A beautiful place, and I should have taken my 16-45mm lens. But I wanted to use take a few pictures at 300mm on TAv at 1/1600, f/16... a faster shutter speed than my 1/1000 yesterday. Found that even though the depth of field increases greatly, 300mm is, well, 300mm. Don't use it for landscapes! But the K-01's autofocus is certainly fast enough to nail a passing pelican. They glide along at all of 5 kph, after eating a heavy lunch of worms and tranquilizers. Sort of the B-52 of the bird world.

chiane · 04-23-2013, 06:07 AM

Come on people, how stuffy can you be? First, it is not illegal. What's the difference between a 'snipper' photo of a girl at the beach and the 'just so artsy' street photography of a bum with a dead rat on his head that everyone finds so appealing? I'll tell you what, nothing, except I'd rather see the girl all day long over really weathered black and whites of weirdo's, with grain added so you feel like a journalist from 1960. Do you all get releases from the strangers you capture in the urban settings? No. You all spend too much time looking at bird pictures.

RonHendriks1966 · 04-23-2013, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by jon404

EDIT -- just read the German privacy-law- wiki referred to in the above post. Wow! Good thing there aren't too many sunny beaches in Germany, or half our American tourists might end up in jail... for a year! But then, Europeans might find our insistence on owning revolvers, pistols, shotguns, rifles, machine guns, grenade launchers, and surplus main battle tanks equally curious. But that's another day's topic...

Originally posted by VisualDarkness

That is one thing that bugs me, why only girls? Haven't we gone further in our gender equality work than having different rules for different genders like that? It's really sad when you think about it that way.

I don't go around taking pics of people on the beach but at the same time I find it a bit weird that one of the most crowded and truly public places is one of the biggest no-no's out there.

To compensate for your missing images off beautiful hunks

Originally posted by falconeye

Actually, there are, in the North and the beaches are gorgeous with dunes. And because sun is only a 50% gift, girls are topless more often than not in order to compensate. However, topless or not makes no difference

It is beautifull at the beaches off Warnemünde near Rostock. Visit the FKK beaches.

chiane · 04-23-2013, 10:52 AM

Maybe you all missed it, but he had pictures of guys in each picture with a girl, and one of a guy surfing. I don't think we need to 'even it out' there Ron.

MD Optofonik · 04-23-2013, 11:01 AM

Times have changed and taking pictures of "Girls on the beach" isn't what it used to be. That could work in your favor, though. The following is a suggestion that takes into consideration just how much the times have changed and how you can be an ambassador of goodwill for the photographic community at large.

After you've taken the photo of the girl on the beach and decided it's a good shot, walk over to her, politely introduce yourself, and share the photo with her, her boyfriend, girlfriend, father, mother, etc. If she, and they, agree that it is a good photo then tell her where you'll be uploading or posting it so she can get a copy for herself. You might make some new friends.

Or not.

chiane · 04-23-2013, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by MD Optofonik

Times have changed and taking pictures of "Girls on the beach" isn't what it used to be. That could work in your favor, though. The following is a suggestion that takes into consideration just how much the times have changed and how you can be an ambassador of goodwill for the photographic community at large.

After you've taken the photo of the girl on the beach and decided it's a good shot, walk over to her, politely introduce yourself, and share the photo with her, her boyfriend, girlfriend, father, mother, etc. If she, and they, agree that it is a good photo then tell her where you'll be uploading or posting it so she can get a copy for herself. You might make some new friends.

Or not.

Why don't you post this great advice in the street photo forum, where the exploitation of poverty for personal enjoyment never ends. Tell people to walk on over the homeless guy they shot a picture of instead of helping him out, then hold several grand in camera equipment out for him to view his picture, and tell him where he can see it online. You may make a new friends, or not.

MD Optofonik · 04-23-2013, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by chiane

Why don't you post this great advice in the street photo forum, where the exploitation of poverty for personal enjoyment never ends. Tell people to walk on over the homeless guy they shot a picture of instead of helping him out, then hold several grand in camera equipment out for him to view his picture, and tell him where he can see it online. You may make a new friends, or not.

I wish I could do it more but instead of taking their picture I pull over, get off my motorcycle, walk over to them, and very politely, so as to avoid as much discomfort or embarrassment to them as I can, ask them to take the $20.00 bill I'm handing them. No, it's not much but I don't put any restrictions on it.

I don't look for a thank you. I don't expect them to suddenly turn their life around because a stranger gave them twenty bucks; hell, maybe they'll just use it to buy a few drinks to forget about their circumstances for a few hours like so many non-homeless people like to do. I don't expect anything from them or anyone who may witness it (they can follow suit or go stuff themselves, makes no difference to me). Taking a picture never enters my mind. That's how I roll in Los Angeles.

What does enter my mind, afterward, is how I should accept my friend's mom's invitation to feed the homeless at her church some Wednesday evening but I wonder if I would have the same ability to maintain my composure with them as I have in the past with someone injured or dying. I can search a bloody wound for the best way to render aid or look a dying man in the eyes and offer comfort without flinching but I don't know how to aid or what comfort to offer the dizzying numbers of homeless here.

normhead · 04-23-2013, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by chiane

Why don't you post this great advice in the street photo forum, where the exploitation of poverty for personal enjoyment never ends. Tell people to walk on over the homeless guy they shot a picture of instead of helping him out, then hold several grand in camera equipment out for him to view his picture, and tell him where he can see it online. You may make a new friends, or not.

The issue is the permission of the subject to control images of themselves. If you address the issue in that way, maybe what you're saying is you don't believe people have or should have the right to control images of themselves? Is that what you're saying?

By the way, I have sent people images when I took shots without permission and went after to ask if it was OK. I didn't make any friends, but I wasn't looking for any. Some people were really happy with their pictures though. If you can make someone happy, why not? If you're not taking pictures that would make people happy, why aren't you? What's your angle?

I just think people who get off on photographing other peoples private moments for their own self gratification without permission are wrong. One step worse than the guys who know where the public spaces are where you can peer into people's bedrooms from adjacent buildings with their binoculars. It may or may not be illegal, but it's distasteful.

jon404 · 04-23-2013, 04:10 PM

@normhead -- when I'm out in public, no, I don't feel I have any right to control images of myself. Expectation of privacy? At home, or outside in a bathroom, or any public place where I have to disrobe -- like a changing station at the beach, or a dressing room at a store.

@MD Optofonik -- homeless problems are tough. They are not going away. Two weeks ago, I ran into a guy my age, Vietnam age, in a wheelchair. Broke, trying to get some money to get back to Philadelphia. Talked for awhile about politics and baseball. He was sober and perfectly sane, except for being a Phillies fan. Life didn't work out for some people my age, and it turned out that his luck ran out at a place called Khe Sanh, back in '68. Way it goes, way it was. Didn't even think about taking his photograph. Could've been me.

normhead · 04-23-2013, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by jon404

@normhead -- when I'm out in public, no, I don't feel I have any right to control images of myself. Expectation of privacy? At home, or outside in a bathroom, or any public place where I have to disrobe -- like a changing station at the beach, or a dressing room at a store.

So doe that give you the right to impose your values on others? Or do other people's values count too?

**Ash** · 04-23-2013, 05:21 PM

Keep the discussions impersonal please. If it becomes personal, the thread will be closed. Thanks.

MD Optofonik · 04-23-2013, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Ash

Keep the discussions impersonal please. If it becomes personal, the thread will be closed. Thanks.

Duly noted. Thanks.

**LaurenOE** · 04-23-2013, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

To compensate for your missing images off beautiful hunks

Very very nice.

Yummy.

We *definitely* need more of THAT!!!

VisualDarkness · 04-23-2013, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

To compensate for your missing images off beautiful hunks

It is beautifull at the beaches off Warnemünde near Rostock. Visit the FKK beaches.

Some serious hunkage and to top it some Swedish hunkage! I can assure you that I help lowering the "Swedish standards" compared to the that.

Interestingly nobody feels repulsed by that pic even though he got very little clothing. I understand that he is in a very public place and in the spotlight though. Still I don't see the difference when it comes the "sexually explicit" factor that seems to be the limiting factor in where you can shoot in the public.

04-22-2013, 05:33 PM	#17
jon404 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 696 Original Poster	There are possible elements of humor. Like if a photographer went to nude beaches, and then took photos of people from shoulders to knees, no faces... nothing identifiable. But wait! No, that's MY appendix scar! Not to mention tattoos... Went down the coast to La Jolla today. A beautiful place, and I should have taken my 16-45mm lens. But I wanted to use take a few pictures at 300mm on TAv at 1/1600, f/16... a faster shutter speed than my 1/1000 yesterday. Found that even though the depth of field increases greatly, 300mm is, well, 300mm. Don't use it for landscapes! But the K-01's autofocus is certainly fast enough to nail a passing pelican. They glide along at all of 5 kph, after eating a heavy lunch of worms and tranquilizers. Sort of the B-52 of the bird world. Attached Images

04-23-2013, 11:33 AM	#23
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Originally posted by chiane Why don't you post this great advice in the street photo forum, where the exploitation of poverty for personal enjoyment never ends. Tell people to walk on over the homeless guy they shot a picture of instead of helping him out, then hold several grand in camera equipment out for him to view his picture, and tell him where he can see it online. You may make a new friends, or not. I wish I could do it more but instead of taking their picture I pull over, get off my motorcycle, walk over to them, and very politely, so as to avoid as much discomfort or embarrassment to them as I can, ask them to take the $20.00 bill I'm handing them. No, it's not much but I don't put any restrictions on it. I don't look for a thank you. I don't expect them to suddenly turn their life around because a stranger gave them twenty bucks; hell, maybe they'll just use it to buy a few drinks to forget about their circumstances for a few hours like so many non-homeless people like to do. I don't expect anything from them or anyone who may witness it (they can follow suit or go stuff themselves, makes no difference to me). Taking a picture never enters my mind. That's how I roll in Los Angeles. What does enter my mind, afterward, is how I should accept my friend's mom's invitation to feed the homeless at her church some Wednesday evening but I wonder if I would have the same ability to maintain my composure with them as I have in the past with someone injured or dying. I can search a bloody wound for the best way to render aid or look a dying man in the eyes and offer comfort without flinching but I don't know how to aid or what comfort to offer the dizzying numbers of homeless here. Last edited by MD Optofonik; 04-23-2013 at 05:25 PM.

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04-22-2013, 03:57 PM	#16
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by falconeye If you cover an event of public interest, of have many faces within a single image, publication is not restricted. It is images of individual persons which are not relevant in the context of a public event which need the depicted person's permission. Amazing how different the laws are compared to just over the sea, in Sweden. Here there's no such laws, even though they are in the works. The new law is supposed to tighten up "offensive photography", but that is things like candid cameras in toilets and such and not regular shooting in public areas. You can almost always take pics of people and publicize as long as it isn't advertising or defamating manner. You can shoot in and at all areas except national protected ones. Public places are always fine unless you cross the line of harassment (nothing to do with photography). You can shoot in private areas as long as you do it in a lawful way and they can tell you to leave but not take your pics. As long as you stand in a public place and not trespass private grounds you can freely shoot into windows and other private areas, though not harass. As you can see the right to use public places is very strong in Sweden (as you know with hiking and such too) and basically if you can see the person with your eyes it's fine to use your camera too. The right to freedom of speech and art is very highly regarded and the openness of the society too, easily seen if checking how easy it is to find personal information here (address, phone, personal social number, yearly income etc). Two countries so close but completely different, quite interesting ey?

04-23-2013, 06:07 AM	#18
chiane Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Chicago, IL Photos: Gallery Posts: 170	Come on people, how stuffy can you be? First, it is not illegal. What's the difference between a 'snipper' photo of a girl at the beach and the 'just so artsy' street photography of a bum with a dead rat on his head that everyone finds so appealing? I'll tell you what, nothing, except I'd rather see the girl all day long over really weathered black and whites of weirdo's, with grain added so you feel like a journalist from 1960. Do you all get releases from the strangers you capture in the urban settings? No. You all spend too much time looking at bird pictures.

04-23-2013, 08:45 AM	#19
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by jon404 EDIT -- just read the German privacy-law- wiki referred to in the above post. Wow! Good thing there aren't too many sunny beaches in Germany, or half our American tourists might end up in jail... for a year! But then, Europeans might find our insistence on owning revolvers, pistols, shotguns, rifles, machine guns, grenade launchers, and surplus main battle tanks equally curious. But that's another day's topic... Originally posted by VisualDarkness That is one thing that bugs me, why only girls? Haven't we gone further in our gender equality work than having different rules for different genders like that? It's really sad when you think about it that way. I don't go around taking pics of people on the beach but at the same time I find it a bit weird that one of the most crowded and truly public places is one of the biggest no-no's out there. To compensate for your missing images off beautiful hunks Originally posted by falconeye Actually, there are, in the North and the beaches are gorgeous with dunes. And because sun is only a 50% gift, girls are topless more often than not in order to compensate. However, topless or not makes no difference It is beautifull at the beaches off Warnemünde near Rostock. Visit the FKK beaches.

04-23-2013, 10:52 AM	#20
chiane Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Chicago, IL Photos: Gallery Posts: 170	Maybe you all missed it, but he had pictures of guys in each picture with a girl, and one of a guy surfing. I don't think we need to 'even it out' there Ron.

04-23-2013, 11:01 AM	#21
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Times have changed and taking pictures of "Girls on the beach" isn't what it used to be. That could work in your favor, though. The following is a suggestion that takes into consideration just how much the times have changed and how you can be an ambassador of goodwill for the photographic community at large. After you've taken the photo of the girl on the beach and decided it's a good shot, walk over to her, politely introduce yourself, and share the photo with her, her boyfriend, girlfriend, father, mother, etc. If she, and they, agree that it is a good photo then tell her where you'll be uploading or posting it so she can get a copy for herself. You might make some new friends. Or not.

04-23-2013, 11:05 AM	#22
chiane Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Chicago, IL Photos: Gallery Posts: 170	Originally posted by MD Optofonik Times have changed and taking pictures of "Girls on the beach" isn't what it used to be. That could work in your favor, though. The following is a suggestion that takes into consideration just how much the times have changed and how you can be an ambassador of goodwill for the photographic community at large. After you've taken the photo of the girl on the beach and decided it's a good shot, walk over to her, politely introduce yourself, and share the photo with her, her boyfriend, girlfriend, father, mother, etc. If she, and they, agree that it is a good photo then tell her where you'll be uploading or posting it so she can get a copy for herself. You might make some new friends. Or not. Why don't you post this great advice in the street photo forum, where the exploitation of poverty for personal enjoyment never ends. Tell people to walk on over the homeless guy they shot a picture of instead of helping him out, then hold several grand in camera equipment out for him to view his picture, and tell him where he can see it online. You may make a new friends, or not.

04-23-2013, 11:48 AM	#24
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by chiane Why don't you post this great advice in the street photo forum, where the exploitation of poverty for personal enjoyment never ends. Tell people to walk on over the homeless guy they shot a picture of instead of helping him out, then hold several grand in camera equipment out for him to view his picture, and tell him where he can see it online. You may make a new friends, or not. The issue is the permission of the subject to control images of themselves. If you address the issue in that way, maybe what you're saying is you don't believe people have or should have the right to control images of themselves? Is that what you're saying? By the way, I have sent people images when I took shots without permission and went after to ask if it was OK. I didn't make any friends, but I wasn't looking for any. Some people were really happy with their pictures though. If you can make someone happy, why not? If you're not taking pictures that would make people happy, why aren't you? What's your angle? I just think people who get off on photographing other peoples private moments for their own self gratification without permission are wrong. One step worse than the guys who know where the public spaces are where you can peer into people's bedrooms from adjacent buildings with their binoculars. It may or may not be illegal, but it's distasteful.

04-23-2013, 04:10 PM	#25
jon404 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 696 Original Poster	@normhead -- when I'm out in public, no, I don't feel I have any right to control images of myself. Expectation of privacy? At home, or outside in a bathroom, or any public place where I have to disrobe -- like a changing station at the beach, or a dressing room at a store. @MD Optofonik -- homeless problems are tough. They are not going away. Two weeks ago, I ran into a guy my age, Vietnam age, in a wheelchair. Broke, trying to get some money to get back to Philadelphia. Talked for awhile about politics and baseball. He was sober and perfectly sane, except for being a Phillies fan. Life didn't work out for some people my age, and it turned out that his luck ran out at a place called Khe Sanh, back in '68. Way it goes, way it was. Didn't even think about taking his photograph. Could've been me.

04-23-2013, 04:56 PM	#26
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by jon404 @normhead -- when I'm out in public, no, I don't feel I have any right to control images of myself. Expectation of privacy? At home, or outside in a bathroom, or any public place where I have to disrobe -- like a changing station at the beach, or a dressing room at a store. So doe that give you the right to impose your values on others? Or do other people's values count too?

04-23-2013, 05:21 PM	#27
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Keep the discussions impersonal please. If it becomes personal, the thread will be closed. Thanks.

04-23-2013, 07:57 PM	#28
MD Optofonik Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Originally posted by Ash Keep the discussions impersonal please. If it becomes personal, the thread will be closed. Thanks. Duly noted. Thanks.

04-23-2013, 08:25 PM	#29
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 To compensate for your missing images off beautiful hunks Very very nice. Yummy. We definitely need more of THAT!!!

04-23-2013, 08:36 PM	#30
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 To compensate for your missing images off beautiful hunks It is beautifull at the beaches off Warnemünde near Rostock. Visit the FKK beaches. Some serious hunkage and to top it some Swedish hunkage! I can assure you that I help lowering the "Swedish standards" compared to the that. Interestingly nobody feels repulsed by that pic even though he got very little clothing. I understand that he is in a very public place and in the spotlight though. Still I don't see the difference when it comes the "sexually explicit" factor that seems to be the limiting factor in where you can shoot in the public.