A hack to disable the crop in film mode?

MrStupid · 08-10-2013, 07:09 PM

Anybody know of a hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode.
Recently I got a K-01 strictly for film making so the camera is used as though it was a Panaflex, thus SR and AF are of no use to me anyway and I am very pleased with the film look over Nikon's or Canon's I've used.
The only thing I would like to see fixed on this little gem, is a firmware hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode. Any ideas?

**jatrax** · 08-10-2013, 07:46 PM - **1 Like**

I know I'm going to regret this but I'll bite.

Originally posted by MrStupid

disable the sensor crop

The sensor is called a 'crop sensor' because it is smaller than a 'full frame sensor' (which is really a misnomer but that's another story). There is no way to 'disable' the crop, it is only physically that big. And since the size of of the sensor impacts the angle of view as seen through the lens, the smaller sensor has been called 'cropped' because it only shows a portion of the view that the same lens would show on a larger sensor.

If you are looking for the same angle of view as on a film camera then you would need a camera with a 24x36mm sensor.

My apologizes if you knew all that and I misunderstood your question.

Adam · 08-10-2013, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by MrStupid

Anybody know of a hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode.
Recently I got a K-01 strictly for film making so the camera is used as though it was a Panaflex, thus SR and AF are of no use to me anyway and I am very pleased with the film look over Nikon's or Canon's I've used.
The only thing I would like to see fixed on this little gem, is a firmware hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode. Any ideas?

There's no such hack. It wouldn't do you that much good, anyway, as the crop is minimal (due to the aspect ratio of HD files).

RonHendriks1966 · 08-11-2013, 03:06 AM

The area on the sensor used is (around) 21.1x11.9mm giving you a 1.7 cropfactor in moviemode. I think this is created for the digital SR use for moviemode. I don't think you can hack this, but if you can, please make it a 4k camera.

PiDicus Rex · 08-12-2013, 07:13 AM - **1 Like**

So far, there are no software hacks for the K-01.
Yep, I search regularly,....

Quote:

Anybody know of a hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode.

I read that, as the crop difference between photo and video modes ( crop is 1.53 in photo modes, 1.7 in video ), and whether there was any way to stop the change in cropping.
Short answer. No.
But it's something I hadn't thought about, so I'll add it to the firmware wishlist post,... still hoping the Pentax/Ricoh engineers use it as feedback, and it seems to me that it's been a long time between firmware updates, compared to the number of weeks between the previous 3, or the timing of the other models firmware updates.
If we're really really fortunate, there's a mad engineer at Pentax coding new firmware that will rock our worlds.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-01/223804-my-k-01-firmware-1-04-...yours-too.html

Na Horuk · 08-14-2013, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

My apologizes if you knew all that and I misunderstood your question.

What you wrote is all true, but the camera crops even MORE when in movie mode. We don't know why - whether its for aspect ratio, digital SR, regular SR.. dunno. But the extra crop in movie mode can be quite limiting.

Unfortunately, Pentax doesn't really have a hacker community. So no, there is no hack available at this point. It would be great if there were, or if Pentax explained why there is the extra crop, or if they would add an option in firmware update.

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

But it's something I hadn't thought about, so I'll add it to the firmware wishlist post,

That wishlist is really amazing. Did Pentax ever respond to it? Was it sent to all their offices?

**jatrax** · 08-14-2013, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

What you wrote is all true, but the camera crops even MORE when in movie mode.

I knew I was going to regret that post. And one thing I love about this forum is you can post something really dumb and no one flames you for it. Though they might gently and politely set you straight. Thanks!

PiDicus Rex · 08-14-2013, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Did Pentax ever respond to it? Was it sent to all their offices?

I sent it to the local reps ( CR Kennedy in Australia ) and the rep that replied assured me it would be passed on.
Which is a similar reply that other people have gotten regarding feedback sent to local reps - it seems to me Ricoh & Pentax have a culture of wanting to know what the end users experience and suggestions are.

Originally posted by Na Horuk

but the camera crops even MORE when in movie mode.

I think that's for the space used to float the captured area around the sensor for the SR. It'd be nice if turning SR off disabled that extra cropping.

ChrisJ · 08-17-2013, 06:44 PM

Could it be something to do with the maximum number of pixels you need for a HD video is 1900 X 1080 and your sensor has some 4000 X 3000 (roughly). Some cameras interpolate a full image down to the video resolution, but that degrades the video images and takes up processor time which could be better used to increase bit rate. Bit rate is far more important to the video image quality than sensor size.

I've never understood people wanting to use full frame sensors for video. 35mm film moves vertically through a 35mm film movie camera, not horizontally as a stills camera does, so every frame is a half frame. The sensor that is the closest match for film 35mm movie cameras for DOF etc is the half frame sized sensor in a micro 4/3rds camera.

Chris

MrStupid · 08-18-2013, 04:47 PM

Hey thanks everybody for your help.
I guess all Pentax cameras crop the image due to the in body SR (unless some don't?).
It will be nice if it is somehow fixable and able to switch off the extra cropping when SR is turned off, being that the Pentax APSC sensor pretty exactly matches today's super 35mm cine format. (LINK> Super 35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's funny that movie mode SR and AF are even included on these types of cameras in the first place being that they are mainly used as digital motion pictures cameras in place of a Panaflex where the best SR or AF would never suffice.
Maybe if we put a bug in the Magic Lantern guys ears.

Na Horuk · 08-19-2013, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by MrStupid

I guess all Pentax cameras crop the image due to the in body SR (unless some don't?).

I dont think the mechanical SR requires this cropping. I also think that other Pentax cameras don't crop in movie mode, it started with K-01 and K-30.
I am pretty sure my K-r does NOT crop videos like that - the width of the video is the same as the width of the stills. It only cuts off top and bottom to fit the aspect ratio.
The reason why this is important is so that the stills and video have the same expected FoV. Its also important because it means its even harder to get wide angle in video, when the sides are cut off. Suddenly, my 14mm lens is cropped twice - once by APS-C (which is okay, I expect that), but then one more time, digitally. :/

Like I said, some say the K-01 uses digital SR in video mode and it needs to crop for that, others say it uses mechanical SR and the cropping is done for other reasons. I dont think we know for certain.

ChrisJ · 08-19-2013, 04:09 AM

AFAIK Pentax move the cropped sensitive area around the larger sensor to achieve SR in video mode, the sensor does not move.

Chris

**Rondec** · 08-19-2013, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by MrStupid

Hey thanks everybody for your help.
I guess all Pentax cameras crop the image due to the in body SR (unless some don't?).
It will be nice if it is somehow fixable and able to switch off the extra cropping when SR is turned off, being that the Pentax APSC sensor pretty exactly matches today's super 35mm cine format. (LINK> Super 35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's funny that movie mode SR and AF are even included on these types of cameras in the first place being that they are mainly used as digital motion pictures cameras in place of a Panaflex where the best SR or AF would never suffice.
Maybe if we put a bug in the Magic Lantern guys ears.

No, all the other Pentax cameras use mechanical SR which doesn't crop the image down any more. Unfortunately, the digital SR which Pentax uses on the K-01 is not only lousy, it also crops the image down a little more and turning off the SR doesn't stop that crop from happening.

PiDicus Rex · 08-19-2013, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by MrStupid

Maybe if we put a bug in the Magic Lantern guys ears.

Perhaps, but lets see what happens in the next firmware update(s). I'd prefer the guys who engineered the camera to be the ones improving the firmware, rather then people who have to work backwards through it to find out how it works first.
Magic Lantern has some amazing benefits, but it has taken several years to get where it is now.

Originally posted by ChrisJ

AFAIK Pentax move the cropped sensitive area around the larger sensor to achieve SR in video mode, the sensor does not move.

On the button!

MrStupid · 08-22-2013, 08:25 AM

That would be ideal of course but would they update the firmware for a discontinued camera? (K-01)

08-10-2013, 07:09 PM	#1
MrStupid Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Orlando Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 42	A hack to disable the crop in film mode? Anybody know of a hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode. Recently I got a K-01 strictly for film making so the camera is used as though it was a Panaflex, thus SR and AF are of no use to me anyway and I am very pleased with the film look over Nikon's or Canon's I've used. The only thing I would like to see fixed on this little gem, is a firmware hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode. Any ideas?

08-10-2013, 07:54 PM	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by MrStupid Anybody know of a hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode. Recently I got a K-01 strictly for film making so the camera is used as though it was a Panaflex, thus SR and AF are of no use to me anyway and I am very pleased with the film look over Nikon's or Canon's I've used. The only thing I would like to see fixed on this little gem, is a firmware hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode. Any ideas? There's no such hack. It wouldn't do you that much good, anyway, as the crop is minimal (due to the aspect ratio of HD files). Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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08-10-2013, 07:46 PM - 1 Like	#2
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	I know I'm going to regret this but I'll bite. Originally posted by MrStupid disable the sensor crop The sensor is called a 'crop sensor' because it is smaller than a 'full frame sensor' (which is really a misnomer but that's another story). There is no way to 'disable' the crop, it is only physically that big. And since the size of of the sensor impacts the angle of view as seen through the lens, the smaller sensor has been called 'cropped' because it only shows a portion of the view that the same lens would show on a larger sensor. If you are looking for the same angle of view as on a film camera then you would need a camera with a 24x36mm sensor. My apologizes if you knew all that and I misunderstood your question.

08-11-2013, 03:06 AM	#4
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	The area on the sensor used is (around) 21.1x11.9mm giving you a 1.7 cropfactor in moviemode. I think this is created for the digital SR use for moviemode. I don't think you can hack this, but if you can, please make it a 4k camera.

08-12-2013, 07:13 AM - 1 Like	#5
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	So far, there are no software hacks for the K-01. Yep, I search regularly,.... Quote: Anybody know of a hack to disable the sensor crop in film mode. I read that, as the crop difference between photo and video modes ( crop is 1.53 in photo modes, 1.7 in video ), and whether there was any way to stop the change in cropping. Short answer. No. But it's something I hadn't thought about, so I'll add it to the firmware wishlist post,... still hoping the Pentax/Ricoh engineers use it as feedback, and it seems to me that it's been a long time between firmware updates, compared to the number of weeks between the previous 3, or the timing of the other models firmware updates. If we're really really fortunate, there's a mad engineer at Pentax coding new firmware that will rock our worlds. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-01/223804-my-k-01-firmware-1-04-...yours-too.html

08-14-2013, 07:59 AM	#6
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by jatrax My apologizes if you knew all that and I misunderstood your question. What you wrote is all true, but the camera crops even MORE when in movie mode. We don't know why - whether its for aspect ratio, digital SR, regular SR.. dunno. But the extra crop in movie mode can be quite limiting. Unfortunately, Pentax doesn't really have a hacker community. So no, there is no hack available at this point. It would be great if there were, or if Pentax explained why there is the extra crop, or if they would add an option in firmware update. Originally posted by PiDicus Rex But it's something I hadn't thought about, so I'll add it to the firmware wishlist post, That wishlist is really amazing. Did Pentax ever respond to it? Was it sent to all their offices?

08-14-2013, 08:19 AM	#7
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Na Horuk What you wrote is all true, but the camera crops even MORE when in movie mode. I knew I was going to regret that post. And one thing I love about this forum is you can post something really dumb and no one flames you for it. Though they might gently and politely set you straight. Thanks!

08-14-2013, 11:58 AM	#8
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by Na Horuk Did Pentax ever respond to it? Was it sent to all their offices? I sent it to the local reps ( CR Kennedy in Australia ) and the rep that replied assured me it would be passed on. Which is a similar reply that other people have gotten regarding feedback sent to local reps - it seems to me Ricoh & Pentax have a culture of wanting to know what the end users experience and suggestions are. Originally posted by Na Horuk but the camera crops even MORE when in movie mode. I think that's for the space used to float the captured area around the sensor for the SR. It'd be nice if turning SR off disabled that extra cropping.

08-17-2013, 06:44 PM	#9
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316	Could it be something to do with the maximum number of pixels you need for a HD video is 1900 X 1080 and your sensor has some 4000 X 3000 (roughly). Some cameras interpolate a full image down to the video resolution, but that degrades the video images and takes up processor time which could be better used to increase bit rate. Bit rate is far more important to the video image quality than sensor size. I've never understood people wanting to use full frame sensors for video. 35mm film moves vertically through a 35mm film movie camera, not horizontally as a stills camera does, so every frame is a half frame. The sensor that is the closest match for film 35mm movie cameras for DOF etc is the half frame sized sensor in a micro 4/3rds camera. Chris

08-18-2013, 04:47 PM	#10
MrStupid Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Orlando Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 42 Original Poster	Hey thanks everybody for your help. I guess all Pentax cameras crop the image due to the in body SR (unless some don't?). It will be nice if it is somehow fixable and able to switch off the extra cropping when SR is turned off, being that the Pentax APSC sensor pretty exactly matches today's super 35mm cine format. (LINK> Super 35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's funny that movie mode SR and AF are even included on these types of cameras in the first place being that they are mainly used as digital motion pictures cameras in place of a Panaflex where the best SR or AF would never suffice. Maybe if we put a bug in the Magic Lantern guys ears.

08-19-2013, 03:17 AM	#11
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by MrStupid I guess all Pentax cameras crop the image due to the in body SR (unless some don't?). I dont think the mechanical SR requires this cropping. I also think that other Pentax cameras don't crop in movie mode, it started with K-01 and K-30. I am pretty sure my K-r does NOT crop videos like that - the width of the video is the same as the width of the stills. It only cuts off top and bottom to fit the aspect ratio. The reason why this is important is so that the stills and video have the same expected FoV. Its also important because it means its even harder to get wide angle in video, when the sides are cut off. Suddenly, my 14mm lens is cropped twice - once by APS-C (which is okay, I expect that), but then one more time, digitally. :/ Like I said, some say the K-01 uses digital SR in video mode and it needs to crop for that, others say it uses mechanical SR and the cropping is done for other reasons. I dont think we know for certain.

08-19-2013, 04:09 AM	#12
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316	AFAIK Pentax move the cropped sensitive area around the larger sensor to achieve SR in video mode, the sensor does not move. Chris

08-19-2013, 04:13 AM	#13
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by MrStupid Hey thanks everybody for your help. I guess all Pentax cameras crop the image due to the in body SR (unless some don't?). It will be nice if it is somehow fixable and able to switch off the extra cropping when SR is turned off, being that the Pentax APSC sensor pretty exactly matches today's super 35mm cine format. (LINK> Super 35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's funny that movie mode SR and AF are even included on these types of cameras in the first place being that they are mainly used as digital motion pictures cameras in place of a Panaflex where the best SR or AF would never suffice. Maybe if we put a bug in the Magic Lantern guys ears. No, all the other Pentax cameras use mechanical SR which doesn't crop the image down any more. Unfortunately, the digital SR which Pentax uses on the K-01 is not only lousy, it also crops the image down a little more and turning off the SR doesn't stop that crop from happening.

08-19-2013, 05:07 AM	#14
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by MrStupid Maybe if we put a bug in the Magic Lantern guys ears. Perhaps, but lets see what happens in the next firmware update(s). I'd prefer the guys who engineered the camera to be the ones improving the firmware, rather then people who have to work backwards through it to find out how it works first. Magic Lantern has some amazing benefits, but it has taken several years to get where it is now. Originally posted by ChrisJ AFAIK Pentax move the cropped sensitive area around the larger sensor to achieve SR in video mode, the sensor does not move. On the button!

08-22-2013, 08:25 AM	#15
MrStupid Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Orlando Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 42 Original Poster	That would be ideal of course but would they update the firmware for a discontinued camera? (K-01)