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03-01-2014, 05:35 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
At the time I always responded to K-01 critics, "Well I have a bigger . . . . . Viewfinder than you.
...

03-01-2014, 09:59 PM   #17
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If you think about it the camera has no way to know you put a filter on. Just that things got dark, like the sun went down. So it compensates to give you the best view it can. Imagine if it did not, in a dark room you would not be able to focus without manually adjusting the brightness.
03-01-2014, 10:32 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
If you think about it the camera has no way to know you put a filter on. Just that things got dark, like the sun went down. So it compensates to give you the best view it can.
Oh I have thought about it plenty As already said, I'm in manual mode so I expect that as I've told the camera that I want control it will not auto adjust anything. Also, remember I pre focus (then lock it off) as this seems standard practice when using an ND filter on a DSLR (I've watched numerous videos to learn about it). And as also mentioned, it actually works as preferred in video mode. Just not in Manual mode for stills. I'll get over it, I didn't expect it - so it's not ideal while learning (IMO).

QuoteQuote:
Imagine if it did not, in a dark room you would not be able to focus without manually adjusting the brightness.
I doubt I'd be using an ND filter to block out light in a dark room, but again - I'd pre-focus before setting the ND
03-02-2014, 12:13 AM   #19
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Steve -- As others have said, the K-01 live LCD screen always tries to show a 'perfect' exposure, rather than the actual one you've set. This can be very confusing.

My workaround is to snap a picture and then use Playback to look at the result... then go back, adjust if needed, and take the picture again, etc. Clunky, but it works. By contrast, the GR screen -- in Manual mode -- clearly shows the result of using its built-in ND filter.

EDIT -- had good results screwing two graduated ND filters together, to really de-brighten sunset skies while I exposed for the land... to sort of get the exposures for both areas in the same ballpark. Also have seen lots of photos where the ND makes waves and falling water look very different, but haven't tried that yet.


Last edited by jon404; 03-02-2014 at 12:20 AM.
03-02-2014, 12:44 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
Steve -- As others have said, the K-01 live LCD screen always tries to show a 'perfect' exposure, rather than the actual one you've set.
Indeed and is the reason I started this thread, what I want is for the camera to stop doing this when I'm in Manual mode.. In Video mode the camera acts as I require it, just not in stills mode.
I guess I'm just using the wrong camera.
QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
EDIT -- had good results screwing two graduated ND filters together, to really de-brighten sunset skies while I exposed for the land... to sort of get the exposures for both areas in the same ballpark.
Stacking ND filters are crap unless you paid big bucks for the best. My cheap set soften the cr*ap out of the picture and give a pink cast. (BTW: THe FOTGA gives a blue cast, avoid this filter - it really is garbage, the glass even has very tiny wavy distortions...)
I can't afford to buy something like Lee NDs or the Big Stopper.

QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
Also have seen lots of photos where the ND makes waves and falling water look very different, but haven't tried that yet.
Yep, I think that's their most common use. Though it's not the ND that 'makes' water silky smooth, it's the slow shutter speed that the filter allows you to use without over-exposing the scene to super-nova brightness)
03-02-2014, 02:24 AM   #21
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Actually, I hardly ever use ND filters. Can usually simulate an ND effect with art programs like Xara Designer Pro ... lets me get the EXACT effect I want -- color, tone, placement -- unlike the glass filter. And, for dealing with extreme light-level differences in the scene -- I think it's better to take two exposures and composite them in XDP or its less-expensive alternative, Xara Photo & Graphic Designer.

But! Here's a real temptation -- something called a 'reverse' neutral grad filter -- which, so far, I've resisted given the cost. But it's neat!
Singh-Ray Filters: Galen Rowell Graduated Neutral Density Filters
03-02-2014, 02:49 AM   #22
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I respectfully disagree that you can simulate the effect and purpose of an ND filter in software.
An ND filter is designed to physically change the settings you are able to use with camera in a given light environment.
You just can't create that silken look to a stream or waterfall and keep all the rocks, moss, ferns etc tack sharp and the sky not blown out. You might try, but you will fail and no matter how close you might think you have gotten, it won't be the same and it will have taken you much much longer in the attempt than it would have to use an ND filter correctly in the first place.
03-02-2014, 03:48 AM   #23
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You're right about that, about the water. My mistake -- I use the software just for selective darkening of areas like the sky, which is easy. That's what i was thinking of.
As you said, trying to simulate the ND effect on moving water would be impossible! Same as trying to simulate the effects of a polarizing filter -- so much easier and better to do it with a real glass filter.
Also, when I take two photos to make a composite -- can only do it for static scenes. If anything's moving, it doesn't work. But with a real ND grad filter, one exposure, no problem.

03-02-2014, 04:22 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
You're right about that, about the water. My mistake -- I use the software just for selective darkening of areas like the sky, which is easy. That's what i was thinking of.
Dodge and burn.
I think of ND filters as sunglasses for my lens, enabling the iris to be open at it's widest for those shallow DoF shots which without and ND are impossible in bright sunlight.
I'll buy a decent brand one day, though I've seen that even some of the expensive ones given red/pink cast.
03-02-2014, 12:36 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
I doubt I'd be using an ND filter to block out light in a dark room, but again - I'd pre-focus before setting the ND
You are missing my point. I don't mean using an ND filter in a dark room at all. I mean if you use the camera in low light you expect the LCD to brighten so you can see what you are focusing on. The camera has no way to determine it has an ND filter on so it assumes darkened environment and brightens the screen for you. Sorry you do not find that intuitive but that is as designed and I think most other folks would find it extremely annoying to have to manually increase/decrease the screen brightness every time the lighting conditions changed.

I've used a 10 stop ND on my k-5 and by putting it in LV you can see just fine to compose and focus. Once that is done, lock everything down, turn off LV and shoot. On K-01 it is even easier, you don't need to mess with LV on/off. If you want to see the results, shoot and review. Honestly the view through the viewfinder does not show much when darkened anyway, better to shoot and review or use LV. And I don't get what a dark LV screen is going to show you. Maybe I'm missing what it is you want to see.
03-02-2014, 01:00 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Maybe I'm missing what it is you want to see.
Possibly, because I've mentioned it umpteen times.
I do not expect the LCD to brighten when I have told the camera I want full manual control. And for the last time I shall mention that the camera acts the way 'I want to see' in Video mode. So the camera is capable of what I want to see, just not in 'M' mode. OK?

As I now know the K-01 isn't capable of what it is I'd prefer I'll consider this thread closed.

Cheers all.
03-02-2014, 01:04 PM   #27
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Jatrax -- In M Manual mode, what I'd like to see on the K-01's screen is what my picture is going to look like. My Ricoh GR does that, and it is obvious and intuitive. Stick a filter in front of the lens, and you see the result -- without the camera trying to interpret what's 'best' for you.

It's so simple. Very surprised that Pentax got this wrong. Look, we're not talking about the other modes here -- like TAv, where you'd expect the camera to keep trying to dial in that perfect exposure. But M Manual is 'automatic nothing'. What I set is what I want to see!

Pentax, how about a K-01 v.1.05 firmware update -- to get M Manual mode back to being a photographer's best friend?
03-02-2014, 01:39 PM   #28
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Grumpy old guy response:

Pretend it's 20 years ago and you're shooting film. Turn off your LCD (after focussing). Add the filter and do the math for exposure, visualizing in your mind the effect you hope to achieve.

If you don't get it right first try, do it again.
03-02-2014, 02:35 PM   #29
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ND filter - what's going on here???

I'm with him ^^^

If you don't like the LCD then don't use it. That's what the optical viewfinder is for. You know the strength of your ND so calculate the exposure manually.

Edit: It's a K-01. Nevermind LOL!
03-02-2014, 07:38 PM   #30
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@johnyates and dtmateojr -- but guys, it's NOT 20 years ago, and since the K-01 sold for $900 new, you'd expect to see what you set, on M Manual. I think we have a disconnect going on here... can't seem to communicate what I'm feeling about this... so, time to drop out of this thread and watch the Oscars. Maybe they used that great K-01 video to shoot Gravity... we'll see!
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