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08-17-2014, 09:22 AM - 1 Like   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
But why should we even give a flying f**k? The K-01 is the funnest camera I've ever used. It's idiosyncratic, like me. The fact that the "camera cognoscenti" dismiss it makes it endearing.
We should GAF becasue this kind of dismissive attitude contributes to Pentax's refusal to release a K-02.

08-17-2014, 09:36 AM   #62
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The Q gets dismissed, too, and still sells well.

The K-02 isn't here because Pentax deemed it not-a-good-business-decision. That's because it didn't sell well, which was in part because of the rejection of reviewers.
08-17-2014, 09:43 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
We should GAF becasue this kind of dismissive attitude contributes to Pentax's refusal to release a K-02.
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
The Q gets dismissed, too, and still sells well.

The K-02 isn't here because Pentax deemed it not-a-good-business-decision. That's because it didn't sell well, which was in part because of the rejection of reviewers.
I think a little of both. Bad reviews made the camera less interesting while the price was to high at start. We had on our Dutch forum one K-01 that went around (from http://www.fotolooman.nl/ the shop where we had a good deal starting with the K-5) among 4 members who all did a little review on how they found it. Fun camera, nice images, great IQ, expensive and almost no members who found the love to buy it. Now some have the camera, wen the price came down after some months.

The market did change a lot since 2012 and there is a market for such a camera (maybe less Marc Newson) with futures in it not so common in 2012. It could be Pentax's videocamera for one goal. But then it does need more then the current PRIME M, since 4K is needed and AF during filming.
08-17-2014, 09:57 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
We should GAF becasue this kind of dismissive attitude contributes to Pentax's refusal to release a K-02.
Most reviews I read at K-01 launch were lukewarm, and deservedly so. High price, controversial styling, and AF worse than most P&S I've used.

I'll also note that many Pentax users immediately disliked the K-01. In fact, we have this quote in this very thread:

QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
I won't say the K-01 is "junk" but it's not something you'd ever find in my bag. I've said this before, nope, not even if I got offered it as a gift. That's how little the K-01 impresses me.


08-17-2014, 09:59 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
The Q gets dismissed, too, and still sells well.

The K-02 isn't here because Pentax deemed it not-a-good-business-decision. That's because it didn't sell well, which was in part because of the rejection of reviewers.
Pentax responded with the Q10 and the Q7, which have sold well. The Smurf limited run of K-01 sold out quickly in Japan.

I believe a correctly-priced, improved, videocentric K-02 with mid-range still controls and image quality (technically, the K-50 replacement w/o a VF and mirrorbox) would be a smash hit. 645z and MX-1 prove they can do a hinged LCD.
08-17-2014, 10:15 AM   #66
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Videocentric and Pentax doesn't strike me as two intersecting circles on the Venn Diagram of Photography.

Most of the best Pentax lenses have very noisy screwdrive, for one instance.

Correctly priced... the K-50 is now $450. I'm not sure where you'd want to put it.

I have nothing against mirrorless cameras. I think a four dial (like the A7) camera with a great, but small grip (like the A7), and with a good EVF (like the A7) but with A/F for K-mount (unlike the A7) would be a great camera. Of course if you're paying for all that stuff you'll probably want the K-3 sensor at a minimum.

If Pentax thinks the K-02 is a going to sell well, then it will release a K-02. Wait a year. Heck it's a decade less than the FF people have been waiting.
08-17-2014, 10:18 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
I'll also note that many Pentax users immediately disliked the K-01. In fact, we have this quote in this very thread:
This is just like 2012, only without the rancor. I was immediately drawn to the K-01 and pre-ordered one. I got it in the mail literally the day it was 'released' in USA. I use it, I like it, it does everything I wanted it for and I use a dSLR for the things it cannot (and was not designed to) do.

By the fall of 2012 the criticism was deafening. I felt so personally insulted here that I responded angrily, got a Timeout from a Mod - and went away for six months. See, all these 'rational' assessments are meaningless. I like the camera. I got 12 more months of use from it than the people who bought it on the deals. It was just a first attempt, which was improved with Firmware updates - it wasn't broken. The card door works just fine. The buttons are just fine. It didn't have a noisy sensor. It didn't send Pentax down a Contax hole.

Yet there remains this group-think 'Garbage' opinion supported by people who (mostly - I can't speak for everyone) have never even thought of trying one or sullying their precious camera bags with one (OMG, Newson cooties might rub off) that is just corrosive, unnecessary and not helpful to Pentax.

Does NO ONE associate the pathologically negative K-01 reception with Ricoh's reluctance to invest in mirrorless or video?

Last edited by monochrome; 08-17-2014 at 10:31 AM.
08-17-2014, 10:28 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I think a four dial (like the A7) camera with a great, but small grip (like the A7), and with a good EVF (like the A7) but with A/F for K-mount (unlike the A7) would be a great camera. Of course if you're paying for all that stuff you'll probably want the K-3 sensor at a minimum.
Those aren't mid-range still camera spec's. Don't ask for them and a mid-range camera price.

If Ricoh decides to do video Ricoh can do video at whatever level they choose. It isn't as if they can't figure it out. They just don't want to figure it out.

Why on earth would they?

08-17-2014, 10:39 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Those aren't mid-range still camera spec's. Don't ask for them and a mid-range camera price.
I wouldn't, but honestly, they shouldn't design a MILC for me; they should design it for you.
08-17-2014, 11:06 AM   #70
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Heh. I probably wouldn't buy what the general market seems to want.
08-17-2014, 11:13 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
Who asked you to apologize?
I don't think it was an apology.


Steve
08-17-2014, 11:38 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I don't think it was an apology.


Steve
Of course it wasn't, but he acted like people were demanding one. "I'm not going to apologize" Well no one asked for one. It's a resentment tactic, a form of debate poisoning. The only thing people really want is a more nuanced discussion beyond "garbage." He should just be honest -- the video was made intentionally provocative (especially toward his co-host) for click-bait. The "garbage" comment is really only a throw-away comment to that larger goal. Because apparently, being uncivil is what counts as entertainment these days.


As I've said, I think the whole video was pretty stupid, and I lost interest due to the tone -- even with the cheap knock on the K-01

Last edited by konraDarnok; 08-17-2014 at 11:47 AM.
08-17-2014, 01:24 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
Of course it wasn't, but he acted like people were demanding one. "I'm not going to apologize" Well no one asked for one. It's a resentment tactic, a form of debate poisoning. The only thing people really want is a more nuanced discussion beyond "garbage." He should just be honest -- the video was made intentionally provocative (especially toward his co-host) for click-bait. The "garbage" comment is really only a throw-away comment to that larger goal. Because apparently, being uncivil is what counts as entertainment these days.


As I've said, I think the whole video was pretty stupid, and I lost interest due to the tone -- even with the cheap knock on the K-01
Maybe the surprise to that comment is in this thread!!!!!!!!!!!

---------- Post added 17-08-14 at 22:30 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Videocentric and Pentax doesn't strike me as two intersecting circles on the Venn Diagram of Photography.

If Pentax thinks the K-02 is a going to sell well, then it will release a K-02. Wait a year.
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Those aren't mid-range still camera spec's. Don't ask for them and a mid-range camera price.

If Ricoh decides to do video Ricoh can do video at whatever level they choose. It isn't as if they can't figure it out. They just don't want to figure it out.

Why on earth would they?
Well for video the most important need is a new processor. One that handles different video formats (4K) and saves them in other formats with better quality. You don't need a new or different sensor for that, but ofcourse they will put one inside. The K-01 is an inbetween from K-5 and K-5 IIs and has a less thick AA-filter, so is sharper then K-5 was.

But not likely for Ricoh to enter that market.

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 08-17-2014 at 01:32 PM.
08-17-2014, 02:13 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Videocentric and Pentax doesn't strike me as two intersecting circles on the Venn Diagram of Photography.

Most of the best Pentax lenses have very noisy screwdrive, for one instance.

Correctly priced... the K-50 is now $450. I'm not sure where you'd want to put it.

I have nothing against mirrorless cameras. I think a four dial (like the A7) camera with a great, but small grip (like the A7), and with a good EVF (like the A7) but with A/F for K-mount (unlike the A7) would be a great camera. Of course if you're paying for all that stuff you'll probably want the K-3 sensor at a minimum.

If Pentax thinks the K-02 is a going to sell well, then it will release a K-02. Wait a year. Heck it's a decade less than the FF people have been waiting.
I don't think Pentax is going any further with the K-01, but clearly it can be priced in the 300 dollar range and still turn them a profit, whereas a pentaprism SLR is going to have a base price of about 450, I would think. I am not an engineer, but everyone says mirrorless are cheaper to manufacture due to cost of components and less finicky adjustments in the manufacturing process.

If Pentax goes with a larger sensored mirrorless than the Q, I would prefer it be one that keeps the k mount -- I just can't imagine them launching another lens lineup on top of the k mount (DA and full frame?), Q, 645, and then mirrorless with a different registration distance. And adapters aren't a real solution to me.
08-17-2014, 03:36 PM - 1 Like   #75
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Well I may be the oddball but a big selling point of the K-01 for me is the Marc Newson design. Straightforward with just the right amount of buttons and dials, easy for my big ham hands to grip, and so damn cool. I really think it shares the philosophy of Leica with a cooler edge. Flame away!
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