An absolute piece of garbage...

**luftfluss** · 08-23-2014, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by spinach

the k-01 is a rangefinder camera (though the rangefinder is not optical) built for an slr lens system. it's like petri in reverse and smarter. no camera should have a mirror now that sensors have advanced to the point that we can use live view for hours without melting the camera and the live view image is and always has been truer to the final composition than any optical viewfinder. here, we have a camera that by default sees only what the film sees and it got thrown away.

"Live View" has lag. OVF doesn't. Ergo, mirrors are still necessary for a specific segment of photographers.

ElJamoquio · 08-23-2014, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

"Live View" has lag. OVF doesn't. Ergo, mirrors are still necessary for a specific segment of photographers.

How much lag is acceptable for 50% of DSLR owners? 75%? 99%?

Doundounba · 08-23-2014, 07:16 PM

Just to confirm, while we're on the subject of the (much praised) OVF... Am I right to assume that if I'm on a Pentax DSLR that has focus peaking, I need to use it in liveview on the back LCD? There is no peaking info in the viewfinder, right? (I'm really asking here - never tried MF with peaking on a Pentax body other than the K-01.)

PiDicus Rex · 08-23-2014, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

What range is the K-01 finding?

Macro, Tele, any distance where the subject stays still enough to focus

ZombieArmy · 08-23-2014, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Doundounba

Just to confirm, while we're on the subject of the (much praised) OVF... Am I right to assume that if I'm on a Pentax DSLR that has focus peaking, I need to use it in liveview on the back LCD? There is no peaking info in the viewfinder, right? (I'm really asking here - never tried MF with peaking on a Pentax body other than the K-01.)

This is correct, there is no focus peaking in the viewfinder.

**luftfluss** · 08-23-2014, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

How much lag is acceptable for 50% of DSLR owners? 75%? 99%?

I don't know. Not sure why you're asking me, though. I think there should be EVF's for those who prefer them and OVF's for those who prefer them.

---------- Post added 08-23-14 at 11:02 PM ----------

Originally posted by Doundounba

Just to confirm, while we're on the subject of the (much praised) OVF... Am I right to assume that if I'm on a Pentax DSLR that has focus peaking, I need to use it in liveview on the back LCD? There is no peaking info in the viewfinder, right? (I'm really asking here - never tried MF with peaking on a Pentax body other than the K-01.)

Right. However, you can use Catch-In-Focus on your Pentax DSLR.

ElJamoquio · 08-23-2014, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

I don't know. Not sure why you're asking me, though. I think there should be EVF's for those who prefer them and OVF's for those who prefer them.

You said there was a segment who needed DSLR's. I was just trying to get a feel for what % of DSLR owners would are OK with current lag. How many are OK with the lag halved, etc.

**luftfluss** · 08-23-2014, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

You said there was a segment who needed DSLR's. I was just trying to get a feel for what % of DSLR owners would are OK with current lag. How many are OK with the lag halved, etc.

Oh, I see, I'm not one of them since I ditched my DSLR stuff a couple years ago and my only ILC is the K-01. So your guess/estimate is as good (or better) as mine.

I guess I could also have mentioned that some people have stated that they feel closer, more-connected to their subject when composing through an OVF rather than digital.

Do you have a preference? I don't, even though I know I've lost shots because of the split-second lag of the LCD on my K-01. I just try to anticipate better.

ElJamoquio · 08-23-2014, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

Oh, I see, I'm not one of them since I ditched my DSLR stuff a couple years ago and my only ILC is the K-01. So your guess/estimate is as good (or better) as mine.

I guess I could also have mentioned that some people have stated that they feel closer, more-connected to their subject when composing through an OVF rather than digital.

Do you have a preference? I don't, even though I know I've lost shots because of the split-second lag of the LCD on my K-01. I just try to anticipate better.

I'm split right now. I prefer the AF of the OVF but prefer the info of the EVF. The AF of the EVF has improved drastically in the past two years though, I suspect it might be better in another two years or so.

Honestly lag has never been a problem for me, but I've never shot sports with an EVF, either. I suspect most of the reported problem is from older tech EVF's though.

philbaum · 08-23-2014, 11:42 PM

I thought the Camera Store reviewers were far more critical of Nikon and Canon, than Pentax. The term garbage was unfortunate, but filming is not like writing a post where its easy to edit and parse every word. Than again, I remember the reception that K01 got from Pentax Forum members when it was first introduced, and it was pretty negative. I had hoped that there was going to be a K02, but Pentax seemed to lose all hope in the project. It certainly wasn't the Camera Store that caused the K01 series to be cancelled.

I actually like Camera STore digital reviews, there's a degree of honesty there that isn't found in a lot of internet reviews.

Cynog Ap Brychan · 08-24-2014, 04:23 AM

I think Kai of DigitalReview TV rather liked the K-01...

You Tube

RonHendriks1966 · 08-24-2014, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

I think Kai of DigitalReview TV rather liked the K-01...

Pentax K-01 Hands-on Review - YouTube

Yes that was my feeling also.

richardwong · 08-24-2014, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Yes that was my feeling also.

I think it's interesting to take both this thread, the K-S1 rumour thread, and Ron's age demographics thread together. If we Pentaxians are truly not so happy about the K-s1 is it because of our higher age group, compared to younger people who like all these electronic lights, design differences, than the majority of the Pentax group, yet didn't buy the K-01 because of the limited marketing funds spent in advertising the product?

Right now Pentax needs new millions more photography consumers or else those Pentax are doomed statements will become true. Ricoh has to try to attract new consumers and that might mean we see for some weird designs but Pentax from the sounds of it was becoming a precarious financial position for them before the Ricoh buyout.

Ricoh has tried to appease the more long term Pentaxians by upgrading lenses, some accessories, but haven't appeased those who would like a Pentax full frame now and have lost some of those to the competition.

I came to Pentax because I liked the fact that the equipment was less expensive that Canikon and Fuji and Sony hadn't gotten to the places they are now. Technology is moving faster all the time and sometimes, not all, you have to let some designers think out of the box and design something different. But you have to spend money marketing or else the best design won't get you the sales. Case in point, Samsung and Apple.

**luftfluss** · 08-24-2014, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

I think Kai of DigitalReview TV rather liked the K-01...

Looks like he has short fingers and coordination issues.

stevebrot · 08-24-2014, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

I think Kai of DigitalReview TV rather liked the K-01...

Pentax K-01 Hands-on Review - YouTube

Yes, but we all know Kai is an idiot. A Pentax-friendly idiot, but an idiot none-the-less

Steve

(...actually likes Kai's reviews...still an idiot though...)

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08-23-2014, 06:06 PM	#106
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by spinach the k-01 is a rangefinder camera (though the rangefinder is not optical) built for an slr lens system. it's like petri in reverse and smarter. no camera should have a mirror now that sensors have advanced to the point that we can use live view for hours without melting the camera and the live view image is and always has been truer to the final composition than any optical viewfinder. here, we have a camera that by default sees only what the film sees and it got thrown away. "Live View" has lag. OVF doesn't. Ergo, mirrors are still necessary for a specific segment of photographers.

08-23-2014, 06:59 PM	#107
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by luftfluss "Live View" has lag. OVF doesn't. Ergo, mirrors are still necessary for a specific segment of photographers. How much lag is acceptable for 50% of DSLR owners? 75%? 99%?

08-23-2014, 07:16 PM	#108
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Just to confirm, while we're on the subject of the (much praised) OVF... Am I right to assume that if I'm on a Pentax DSLR that has focus peaking, I need to use it in liveview on the back LCD? There is no peaking info in the viewfinder, right? (I'm really asking here - never tried MF with peaking on a Pentax body other than the K-01.)

08-23-2014, 07:55 PM	#109
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by ElJamoquio What range is the K-01 finding? Macro, Tele, any distance where the subject stays still enough to focus

08-23-2014, 07:59 PM	#110
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	Originally posted by Doundounba Just to confirm, while we're on the subject of the (much praised) OVF... Am I right to assume that if I'm on a Pentax DSLR that has focus peaking, I need to use it in liveview on the back LCD? There is no peaking info in the viewfinder, right? (I'm really asking here - never tried MF with peaking on a Pentax body other than the K-01.) This is correct, there is no focus peaking in the viewfinder.

08-23-2014, 08:01 PM	#111
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by ElJamoquio How much lag is acceptable for 50% of DSLR owners? 75%? 99%? I don't know. Not sure why you're asking me, though. I think there should be EVF's for those who prefer them and OVF's for those who prefer them. ---------- Post added 08-23-14 at 11:02 PM ---------- Originally posted by Doundounba Just to confirm, while we're on the subject of the (much praised) OVF... Am I right to assume that if I'm on a Pentax DSLR that has focus peaking, I need to use it in liveview on the back LCD? There is no peaking info in the viewfinder, right? (I'm really asking here - never tried MF with peaking on a Pentax body other than the K-01.) Right. However, you can use Catch-In-Focus on your Pentax DSLR.

08-23-2014, 09:01 PM	#112
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by luftfluss I don't know. Not sure why you're asking me, though. I think there should be EVF's for those who prefer them and OVF's for those who prefer them. You said there was a segment who needed DSLR's. I was just trying to get a feel for what % of DSLR owners would are OK with current lag. How many are OK with the lag halved, etc.

08-23-2014, 10:06 PM	#113
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by ElJamoquio You said there was a segment who needed DSLR's. I was just trying to get a feel for what % of DSLR owners would are OK with current lag. How many are OK with the lag halved, etc. Oh, I see, I'm not one of them since I ditched my DSLR stuff a couple years ago and my only ILC is the K-01. So your guess/estimate is as good (or better) as mine. I guess I could also have mentioned that some people have stated that they feel closer, more-connected to their subject when composing through an OVF rather than digital. Do you have a preference? I don't, even though I know I've lost shots because of the split-second lag of the LCD on my K-01. I just try to anticipate better.

08-23-2014, 10:26 PM	#114
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by luftfluss Oh, I see, I'm not one of them since I ditched my DSLR stuff a couple years ago and my only ILC is the K-01. So your guess/estimate is as good (or better) as mine. I guess I could also have mentioned that some people have stated that they feel closer, more-connected to their subject when composing through an OVF rather than digital. Do you have a preference? I don't, even though I know I've lost shots because of the split-second lag of the LCD on my K-01. I just try to anticipate better. I'm split right now. I prefer the AF of the OVF but prefer the info of the EVF. The AF of the EVF has improved drastically in the past two years though, I suspect it might be better in another two years or so. Honestly lag has never been a problem for me, but I've never shot sports with an EVF, either. I suspect most of the reported problem is from older tech EVF's though.

08-23-2014, 11:42 PM	#115
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	I thought the Camera Store reviewers were far more critical of Nikon and Canon, than Pentax. The term garbage was unfortunate, but filming is not like writing a post where its easy to edit and parse every word. Than again, I remember the reception that K01 got from Pentax Forum members when it was first introduced, and it was pretty negative. I had hoped that there was going to be a K02, but Pentax seemed to lose all hope in the project. It certainly wasn't the Camera Store that caused the K01 series to be cancelled. I actually like Camera STore digital reviews, there's a degree of honesty there that isn't found in a lot of internet reviews.

08-24-2014, 08:39 AM	#117
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan I think Kai of DigitalReview TV rather liked the K-01... Pentax K-01 Hands-on Review - YouTube Yes that was my feeling also.

08-24-2014, 09:18 AM	#118
richardwong Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 671	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Yes that was my feeling also. I think it's interesting to take both this thread, the K-S1 rumour thread, and Ron's age demographics thread together. If we Pentaxians are truly not so happy about the K-s1 is it because of our higher age group, compared to younger people who like all these electronic lights, design differences, than the majority of the Pentax group, yet didn't buy the K-01 because of the limited marketing funds spent in advertising the product? Right now Pentax needs new millions more photography consumers or else those Pentax are doomed statements will become true. Ricoh has to try to attract new consumers and that might mean we see for some weird designs but Pentax from the sounds of it was becoming a precarious financial position for them before the Ricoh buyout. Ricoh has tried to appease the more long term Pentaxians by upgrading lenses, some accessories, but haven't appeased those who would like a Pentax full frame now and have lost some of those to the competition. I came to Pentax because I liked the fact that the equipment was less expensive that Canikon and Fuji and Sony hadn't gotten to the places they are now. Technology is moving faster all the time and sometimes, not all, you have to let some designers think out of the box and design something different. But you have to spend money marketing or else the best design won't get you the sales. Case in point, Samsung and Apple.

08-24-2014, 09:29 AM	#119
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan I think Kai of DigitalReview TV rather liked the K-01... Looks like he has short fingers and coordination issues.

08-24-2014, 09:47 AM	#120
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan I think Kai of DigitalReview TV rather liked the K-01... Pentax K-01 Hands-on Review - YouTube Yes, but we all know Kai is an idiot. A Pentax-friendly idiot, but an idiot none-the-less Steve (...actually likes Kai's reviews...still an idiot though...)