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01-04-2015, 06:29 AM   #31
JPT
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Have you been to Japan Richard? Because that's the exact sort of thing the younger Asian consumer loves.
The Western market is becoming small by comparison to Asian markets.
I only know about Japan, but when I think about my brother-in-law as an example, I think he'd be impressed by the K-S1. He's early 30s, with a young family, and I think right in the target demographic for these cameras. If someone demonstrated the lights to him, he'd see the value in setting up shots with his whole family using a remote. In other words, he'd just take them at face value as a moderately useful feature and not consider how they affect his sensibilities as a photographer. It does help here that the K-S1 is highly competitive with the Nikon and Canon alternatives when you look at price and specs. Don't let the appearance deceive you.

QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
That's the point where a sales person should have mentioned the Q series as the smallest mirrorless with interchangeable lenses....
The Q series is significantly cheaper, so I think a sales person would be more likely to push the customer towards another mirrorless system (Sony, Panasonic, Olympus) unless they had some particular incentive to sell Pentax. Actually, I think the Pentax Q did well in Japan because it is a relatively easy for sales people to upsell when a customer comes in looking for a compact camera - not much more expensive and not much heavier.

01-04-2015, 06:55 AM   #32
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A mirrorless APS-C camera wouldn't cannibalize Q sales. That's like saying the iPhone competes with the K-3. Not really.

Sony won't sell the A7S sensor to Pentax. Stop dreaming. Sony has already said that in interviews. They will keep that sensor.

What I hope for is that they drop the K mount so we can adapt all sorts of lenses for it, and Pentax can develop smaller lenses just for the new mount (where it makes sense). K mount lenses should be fully, 100% functional on the new mount. Perhaps the new mount is a K mount too, mechanical identical, but closer to the sensor. It's mounted on a tube that can extend out. Twist it, you've got a mirror K mount, twist it back and it is a mirrorless K mount. For storage and transport you can pull in the old K mount lens. Or you can even use it to focus beyond what the lens was designed for.

Grip, buttons etc. should be similar to a K-3, maybe shrunken a bit. Space savings come from the smaller lenses that are closer to the sensor --> the complete package is compact, without sacrificing handling.

EVF is a must. Ideally an OLED screen with a 14 stop dynamic range, so we can see what the raw photo will contain.

Fast processing speed like the NX1 so that there is no lag between real life and screen.

Video AF isn't necessary IMHO, but since a sensor with PDAF is necessary it comes for free. What I mostly care about is focus peaking that works during video.

In terms of video please reactivate SR, that's the biggest thing Pentax can do to gain a competitive edge, and it is FREE.

Reactivate MJPEG for situations where image quality is more important than file size. Or offer raw video, ProRes, ...

4K video would be nice.

Sensor and processor should offer pixel binning without throwing pixels away or adding additional crop. Shooting wide angle video is nice!

A sales man pointing at the Q would receive hysterical laughter from me. If I want to use a sensor that small I'll use my phone.

What I want from Pentax is a NX1.. Admittedly that is hard for Pentax to do. Samsung is the 13th biggest company in the world. Panasonic and Sony are 106th and 105th. Where is RICOH? Nikon is probably somewhere in the 4 to 5 digit area. Every major component in the NX1 is probably developed and produced by Samsung. And Samsung and Sony are two of the major suppliers of sensors. Since they are also in the camera business they will keep the best tech to themselves, making it really hard for Pentax.

Last edited by kadajawi; 01-04-2015 at 07:16 AM.
01-04-2015, 07:46 AM   #33
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I think these statements about keeping sensors exclusive to Sony are just marketing spin. If a customer offers the right kind of money, Sony will supply. In the case of the A7S sensor, who would buy it? None of their regular customers make video oriented full frame cameras. It's a great piece of kit, but it's niche and I doubt Sony had manufacturers banging on their door to buy it.

Samsung's new sensor is another case of hype if you ask me. It probably looks good compared to the sensors in today's cameras, but surely Sony and others will unveil better sensors soon, so we'll see whether Samsung has truly caught up or not. Actually, I hope Samsung does well with it's NX system, because the lenses look good and I think some non-Japanese competition is healthy for the industry.

I believe Ricoh is around 300 in the list of global companies, but that could have changed now. They certainly have enough resources to develop top-class cameras if they want to. And to be honest they have done that. The 645D had a state-of-the-art Sony sensor in it. They clearly thought that one was worth paying for.

Last edited by JPT; 01-04-2015 at 07:52 AM.
01-04-2015, 08:11 AM   #34
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Are you sure? Sony makes more money selling a camera compared to selling a sensor. And they want to, like Samsung, establish their camera system. They can take a hit in short term sales when it means it weakens their competitors long term. They want people to leave Canitax, because once they made the switch the biggest hurdle is gone.

The NX1 sensor is far ahead of what everyone else makes. Maybe Sony can catch up in 2015, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised by either. Canon is gone.

The NX1 processor is also far ahead of what everyone else makes. And they don't sell those. Fujitsu can't compete, IMHO, they lag several generations behind.


Last edited by kadajawi; 01-04-2015 at 08:21 AM.
01-04-2015, 01:46 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
A mirrorless APS-C camera wouldn't cannibalize Q sales. That's like saying the iPhone competes with the K-3. Not really.

Sony won't sell the A7S sensor to Pentax. Stop dreaming. Sony has already said that in interviews. They will keep that sensor.

What I hope for is that they drop the K mount so we can adapt all sorts of lenses for it, and Pentax can develop smaller lenses just for the new mount (where it makes sense). K mount lenses should be fully, 100% functional on the new mount. Perhaps the new mount is a K mount too, mechanical identical, but closer to the sensor. It's mounted on a tube that can extend out. Twist it, you've got a mirror K mount, twist it back and it is a mirrorless K mount. For storage and transport you can pull in the old K mount lens. Or you can even use it to focus beyond what the lens was designed for.

Grip, buttons etc. should be similar to a K-3, maybe shrunken a bit. Space savings come from the smaller lenses that are closer to the sensor --> the complete package is compact, without sacrificing handling.

EVF is a must. Ideally an OLED screen with a 14 stop dynamic range, so we can see what the raw photo will contain.

Fast processing speed like the NX1 so that there is no lag between real life and screen.

Video AF isn't necessary IMHO, but since a sensor with PDAF is necessary it comes for free. What I mostly care about is focus peaking that works during video.

In terms of video please reactivate SR, that's the biggest thing Pentax can do to gain a competitive edge, and it is FREE.

Reactivate MJPEG for situations where image quality is more important than file size. Or offer raw video, ProRes, ...

4K video would be nice.

Sensor and processor should offer pixel binning without throwing pixels away or adding additional crop. Shooting wide angle video is nice!

A sales man pointing at the Q would receive hysterical laughter from me. If I want to use a sensor that small I'll use my phone.

What I want from Pentax is a NX1.. Admittedly that is hard for Pentax to do. Samsung is the 13th biggest company in the world. Panasonic and Sony are 106th and 105th. Where is RICOH? Nikon is probably somewhere in the 4 to 5 digit area. Every major component in the NX1 is probably developed and produced by Samsung. And Samsung and Sony are two of the major suppliers of sensors. Since they are also in the camera business they will keep the best tech to themselves, making it really hard for Pentax.
Nikon is a part of Mitsubishi group which is a pretty huge company. Not sure their number
01-04-2015, 02:48 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by shaolen Quote
Nikon is a part of Mitsubishi group which is a pretty huge company. Not sure their number
Ok, that surprised me and made me curious.


According to Is Nikon a subsidiary of Mitsubishi? | byThom | Thom Hogan at most 5% of it is owned by the bank that was part of Mitsubishi...? There are some ties still, but I'd say it's a separate company then, standing on its own. Compare that to Pentax... part of Ricoh, Pentax is really just a brand name anymore. Canon, well, it's Canon. Sony is Sony, Samsung is Samsung, Panasonic is Panasonic. They are the main companies. Nikon is more on it's own I'd say than those.
01-04-2015, 03:19 PM - 1 Like   #37
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Dunno where he get's his info from but ;
Nikon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mitsubishi is the parent company.
Founded on July 25, 1917 as Nippon Kōgaku Kōgyō Kabushikigaisha "Japan Optical Industries Co., Ltd.", the company was renamed Nikon Corporation, after its cameras, in 1988. Nikon is one of the companies of the Mitsubishi Group.

Also see
mitsubishi.com - Company Search - Search Results -
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Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 01-04-2015 at 03:25 PM.
01-04-2015, 04:26 PM   #38
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Pentax have upped their video offering over the years, moving to full HD and 24fps options etc.
If 4k is too much, then I'd settle for 2.7k, which gives me some wiggle room for stabilisation, as the inbuilt 'Movie SR' permanently turned off for me.


I'll be looking for a new camera in around 2 years time I expect, at which point I'll once again open my sights up to all brands. It will be interesting to see how Pentax fares then. Last time they were leagues ahead of the competition in my price point.

01-04-2015, 06:11 PM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
.... the inbuilt 'Movie SR' permanently turned off for me.
Same here..

<broken_record>
Meanwhile, I can recommend the Sigma 17-70mm f2.8-4 HSM OS lens for optical stabilization during Video recording.
</broken_record>

01-04-2015, 07:07 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Are you sure? Sony makes more money selling a camera compared to selling a sensor.
How is the A7S selling? I've tried a little quick research, and I can't find much information. It is really a niche product and not cheap.

Pentax has lots of lenses, many of which work on a full frame sensor. Sony has the opposite problem--an interesting sensor and few lenses. Unless you are fine with 6mp, you do not want an APS-C lens on a 12mp sensor, so most of Sony's E-mount lenses are a no-go. If K mount lenses were fully functional, Pentax could probably make better use of this sensor than Sony.
01-04-2015, 08:39 PM   #41
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I don't think Nikon could be considered a subsidiary of Mitsubishi, but they may have a strong "keiretsu" style relationship with Mitsubishi. In any case I suspect that Nikon could be merged with another company soon. Perhaps they can find their own benevolent printer maker to be bought by.
01-05-2015, 06:51 AM   #42
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The K02 doesn't need the A7S sensor. It just needs the A6000/A7II features. As I posted on another thread, I might never buy another DSLR if the K02 worked like the A6000, or more preferably the A7II (with internal IS). Hybrid focus is fast, and having both an articulated screen and EVF is a joy.

The Sony mirrorless bodies actually make better use of our legacy Pentax glass than do Pentax DSLR bodies. TTL flash and Av exposure automation work with a completely manual lens. The EVF on the A6000 compensates such that a manual lens stopped down to F8 (or even below in some light) does not darken the screen for viewing, making DOF preview and metering a snap. I am using my Pentax lenses and my wife's old Zeiss/Contax lenses from the '80s. I would gladly carry a little more bulk to get AF on my Pentax lenses, and now is the time for Pentax to act, while Sony's stable of lenses is its biggest drawback.
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