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11-17-2015, 08:54 AM   #1
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K-01 vs gx-8

Just looking around (not buying anything) and came across the Panasonic GX-8 wich is their newest. A new sensor inside this micro 4/3th camera that is large. It is around the same as K-01 but with an EVF. This gives us to think about the size of the K-01 wich was screamt to be to big by many.

http://camerasize.com/compare/#285,629

It is expensive, since it looks like double the price of the K-01 at introductie in 2012. The EVF is probably adding to this cost and overal prices are higher then 3 years ago.

The sensor is interesting since it scores the highest rates at dxo with 75 points. That is only 4 points less then thè K-01 did in 2012! So it took three years to get sensor technology at this level for the smaller format. The sensor inside K-01 is 60% larger then in the GX-8. The difference in practice is now down to half a stop, wich is to overcom with either lens choice or photographers technic.

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GX8-versus-Pentax-K-01___1041_783

So is the future to this smaller sensors, or is the future to bigger sensors? Is K-mount still good for a new generation of milc or is this going in different direction?

Preview of the GX-8

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9485436827/the-big-beast-hands-on-with-the-panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx8


Looks to me as a great, but expensive camera.

11-17-2015, 09:31 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So is the future to this smaller sensors, or is the future to bigger sensors? Is K-mount still good for a new generation of milc or is this going in different direction?
My opinion is: both. The smaller sensors are gaining rapidly, the 1" ones are producing images quite good enough for work. But large sensors are not going away either. There is too much existing gear out there supporting FF or APS-C mounts for them to just go away. Owners of existing lenses are not going to just walk away from their investment.

I would love to see a new Pentax mirrorless line based on a new mount with an integral k-mount adapter.
11-17-2015, 09:35 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I would love to see a new Pentax mirrorless line based on a new mount with an integral k-mount adapter.
Stand alone or joining micro 4/3th? Wich sensor size? I do see lots of new mounts coming out in the last years, but some of them are strugling to get customers.
11-17-2015, 09:39 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I would love to see a new Pentax mirrorless line based on a new mount with an integral k-mount adapter.
The adapter mount should be able to use AF (screw-drive and DC/SDM) control aperture (lever and contacts), then that would be pretty perfect. (Also make it non-crippled as well...)

11-17-2015, 09:48 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Stand alone or joining micro 4/3th? Wich sensor size? I do see lots of new mounts coming out in the last years, but some of them are strugling to get customers.
I was thinking APS-C
If they sold the adapter as part of the camera, with full automation: exposure, AF, both screwdrive and SDM it would be a k-mount APS-C camera without a mirror. But with the ability to use new "k-mirrorless" lenses. By starting it as a k-mount the lack of new mount lenses is immaterial. It would be a transition model, with perhaps later models not having the adapter as more k-mirrorless lenses come on line.
If the future is mirrorless Pentax needs a strategy to transition customers to that without them going to other brands. It would serve both as the smallest K-mount camera and a transition path to a new mount.
QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
The adapter mount should be able to use AF (screw-drive and DC/SDM) control aperture (lever and contacts), then that would be pretty perfect.
Yes. And with a few k-mirrorless primes that should be quite small it would be almost pocketable.
11-17-2015, 10:20 AM   #6
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The problem is that if you are including the motors and linkages in the mount and integrating it into the body, you need a sizable snout to house them, negating much of the size benefits of a modern all-electronic mount. You'd also need a large enough battery in the body to power them without killing shot count. I would hope that a new mount would be fully pocketable - we can get "almost" from K-mount now.

For comparison, this is the NEX-to-Alpha mount adapter that supports AF on screwdrive lenses:


Last edited by THoog; 11-17-2015 at 11:42 AM.
11-17-2015, 11:27 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
For comparison, this is the NEX-to-Alpha mount that supports AF on screwdrive lenses:
There is no sense in making this. Who in his right mind buys this?

So ditch support for screwdrive and just add a ring that support af with sdm and make it a camera for recent lenses. That along with some new lenses could make a nice system.
11-17-2015, 11:56 AM   #8
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I can't imagine too many people are cross-shopping K-01 vs. GX-8. As for the future of mirrorless K-mount...

Hard to know whether Pentax will take a chance on a K-02 or not. K-01 was a bit of a bust...sure, they eventually sold a bunch of them but only once they dropped the price to $300 or so. K-01 wasn't a great proof-of-concept because its cosmetics were polarizing and ergonomics were a bit suspect, below normal Pentax standards. I'll bet Pentax would have moved more of them if the body was WR with a more comfortable grip and better-placed buttons. Maybe they should have their MX-1 retro aesthetics efforts could also have been better applied here. Some combination of variable-angle rear LCD and/or EVF (either built-in or accessory) would also have helped. K-01 ticked none of these boxes.

In addition, the contrast-detect live-view focusing was barely viable at the time that K-01 was released, suffering badly in low light. It was improved somewhat with firmware updates but I think for it to work right you really need the most recent processors combined with continuous improvement in tuning the focus algorithms. I imagine a model released today would be in much better shape than the K-01. A K-02 package would also benefit from the newer collapsible kit zoom which was not available in 2012.

There are some photographers who will prioritize performance and ergonomics and will insist on a body large enough to fit their hands. Cameras like the GX-8 and GH series will appeal to them, and they'll still get the system benefit of smaller & lighter lenses. A K-01 would not appeal for the reasons mentioned above. I think a K-02 done right would at the very least have the potential do to better than KS-1.

While I don't think the Q is as big a fail as many might say, I think it was a lost opportunity...I think the Q would have had a much better chance had it been designed for the 1" sensor. I have no doubt that Pentax would have released a Q that was smaller and more photographer-friendly than Nikon's '1' (though in the finest Pentax tradition, it's AF would probably fall short), and a system like this would have had the potential for much wider appeal while maintaining respectful separation from APS-C gear.

The thin-body + adapter for legacy glass approach has some merit but only seems worthwhile as a stopgap while glass for the new mount is developed. The adapter doesn't have to be as bulky as Sony's Alpha to e-mount adapter mentioned above -- this adapter is impressive because it not only incorporates the screwdrive but also includes a phase-detect AF module with a translucent mirror. Pentax would really need AF screwdrive capability but could theoretically rely on contrast detect AF for legacy lenses.

11-17-2015, 12:03 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
There is no sense in making this. Who in his right mind buys this?
I guess the only people who would buy it are former Minolta Alpha-lens shooters, who want AF but can't / won't buy new lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So ditch support for screwdrive and just add a ring that support af with sdm and make it a camera for recent lenses. That along with some new lenses could make a nice system.
I think that's the direction Ricoh should go - and probably will go, but only when it is profitable to do so. At present, it's a crowded segment.

While u4/3 today can do what APS-C did a few years ago, I think the same is true for each step up - APS-C compared to FF, FF compared to MF, etc.
11-17-2015, 12:09 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
I think that's the direction Ricoh should go - and probably will go, but only when it is profitable to do so. At present, it's a crowded segment.

While u4/3 today can do what APS-C did a few years ago, I think the same is true for each step up - APS-C compared to FF, FF compared to MF, etc.
Wich format to choose then?


Some how aps-h comes to my mind. ...... Joining micro4/3 would be good for having a nice system from start. I don't see Q surviving over the next 5 years. The Q-system just doesn't bring enough over p&s and smartphones.
11-17-2015, 12:17 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by AndrewG NY Quote
The adapter doesn't have to be as bulky as Sony's Alpha to e-mount adapter mentioned above -- this adapter is impressive because it not only incorporates the screwdrive but also includes a phase-detect AF module with a translucent mirror. Pentax would really need AF screwdrive capability but could theoretically rely on contrast detect AF for legacy lenses.
If you include screwdrive, aperture lever AND gear for un-crippling the K-mount, I think the overall volume for a K/AF adapter is going to come out about the same. It would probably be more symmetrical because the lens lock, aperture lever, and screwdrive aren't all on the same side for K-mount. I figure PDAF-on sensor will be the norm before long.
11-17-2015, 12:43 PM   #12
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yes its good

Ive read plenty of reviews and watch a bit of Youtube on the GX8, I'm impressed....its what the K-01 should have been


As for high priced ? ? ?....it does everything and has everything(well most of the bells and whistles)...$1145 equivalent US dollars with the 14/42 and 45/140 in Australia at present


One review referred to it as "brick" like, but no reference to our brick.



A soon to be released 100/400 telephoto gives 800mm equivalent AF( don't know price of that yet?), so for my purposes its appealing.
11-17-2015, 12:48 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Wich format to choose then?


Some how aps-h comes to my mind. ...... Joining micro4/3 would be good for having a nice system from start. I don't see Q surviving over the next 5 years. The Q-system just doesn't bring enough over p&s and smartphones.
APS-H has a lot to offer... For a sub-FF format, I think Ricoh would be more inclined to stick with APS-C, just because they have more familiarity there (and an established user base). On the other hand, Sony has gotten FF down to almost K-01 size. If they get FF sensor costs down to APS-C levels (which some have predicted but I doubt, at least in the next couple years), then it would make sense for Ricoh to jump in with the larger sensor.

The Q went into a good niche (superior image quality in a small package), but that niche is being eroded on both sides - smartphone IQ is getting better and better, and u4/3 has met it on size. The Q still has better optics than phones in smaller packages than u4/3, but that's probably not enough.
11-17-2015, 01:10 PM   #14
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The GX8 is indeed an interesting camera. I'd say it's one of the most exciting cameras to come around in recent years, and I've been devouring reviews of it since it was released.

It has an image sensor that provides outstanding image quality and resolution, and a body that provides DSLR-like ergonomics while still remaining smaller and much lighter than most serious DSLR's. And it's jam-packed with high-end features, such as 4K video, Dual IS, weather sealing, silent mode (e-shutter) etc. And since it's m43, it comes with a vibrant and growing lens system that is filled with incredible, compact lenses.

Sure, the best m43 sensors give up maybe a stop against the best APS-C sensors, but the sensor technology has reached a level where in most cases it doesn't matter.

And if you use a lens like the Panasonic Leica 42.5mm f/1.2, then you could gain that back anyway since f/1.2 is very sharp and is completely usable on that lens. And Olympus is also supposed to be coming out with a line of f/1.2 lenses, which should also impress.

I started out on 4/3 with an Olympus DSLR, but I went to Pentax for the APS-C image quality advantage when the K-x was released. When the GX8 was announced, I got very interested in m43, so I bought a GX7 to hold me over and ease me into the system until the GX8 comes down in price. And let me tell you, the sensors have come a loooong ways from my old Olympus e-510!

The GX7 is such an amazing camera, that when I do get a GX8, I'll probably keep the GX7 as a second body. I've already got four great m43 lenses, and I can't wait to get more.

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 11-17-2015 at 01:19 PM.
11-17-2015, 01:16 PM   #15
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I bought a K-01 last month to give it a try. And I've been using it. It's quirky. Which is normally right up my alley. But, I just am not really gelling with it. I'm trying, but it's just not happening.
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