K-01 - why did it not suceed?

brofkand · 11-16-2020, 08:37 PM

I think the K-01 is still quite popular, particularly with IR/full spectrum conversion people.

It is a bit of a cult classic now.

The point is the K-01 required a different kind of camera company, the same kind of company that would produce camera grips that the user can whittle down to their liking for a perfect grip (Pentax did that).

Nikon nor Canon would never have released the K-01. Is that a good thing? Depends upon your perspective.

The main thing is the only reason the K-01 was mirrorless was so the designer could reduce the "prism hump". There were no advantages to the design as it was. There was speculation that Pentax could design lenses that took advantage of that cavity - lenses that protruded into the body like some Nikon designs of the past. But they never came out. Had PDAF-on-sensor been available to Pentax at the time, and thus faster autofocus, the camera might have been more successful at the time - or at least, a K-02 might have happened.

dbs · 11-16-2020, 09:10 PM

How big is the lens on a GR111 ? physical size I mean replace with a K mount and off you go

**luftfluss** · 11-16-2020, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by dbs

How big is the lens on a GR111 ? physical size I mean replace with a K mount and off you go

The lens on the GR is located much closer to the sensor than on K-mount cameras, so the GR lens can be much smaller in comparison.

ZombieArmy · 11-16-2020, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by automorphism

I really think it would require a lot more work than it sounds to make a camera like that...

I don't think it would be "difficult" to make, the real question is why would it exist?

Bertrand3000 · 11-17-2020, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by mlt

Maybe take a KP body, update the sensor to one with dual pixel af, replace the pentaprism along with the mirror mechanicals and the af sensor with a 3-4 meg electronic viewfinder and bingo - a usable mirrorless Pentax. Keeps a decently built body that should be a bit lighter overall.

The problem with that idea is.. what is the point of that? You replace the mirror with an EVF, you will get a mirrorless camera, but how it can be better, or more interesting, than the original KP?

I've thought about this, maybe the new K-02 should use a shorter flange distance (and then a new mount) to be able to mount smaller lens with an APS-C sensor, but it should have a new mount-to-K adapter shipped with the camera, full with exposure and auto-focus.

But it will never happen. Ricoh does not have the resource to make an entire new set of lenses.. and definitely should not. Staying specialized to DSLR is an excellent idea to differentiate themselves from Canon, Nikon and Sony.

**Rondec** · 11-17-2020, 03:33 AM - **2 Likes**

I still like my K-01 a lot. I'd love to see what Pentax could do with a sequel of sorts. At the same time, if I am honest, I know in my heart that mirrorless design probably doesn't fit very well with Pentax's ethos. Video has always seemed an after thought to them, live view auto focus has always been slow and live view tracking has been non existent.

Maybe they could sort all of these things out. Maybe they could buy a top end EVF from some other company. Maybe they could get their specs up while keeping the size fairly small. At the end of the day, I just don't think they have the resources to match the functionality of Sony and Fuji's offerings. A K-02 would likely be a disaster unless they could figure out some niche that isn't targeted by others right now. Otherwise it would just end up being a second camera for the few Pentaxians left who desire an EVF.

**UncleVanya** · 11-17-2020, 07:05 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by luftfluss

The lens on the GR is located much closer to the sensor than on K-mount cameras, so the GR lens can be much smaller in comparison.

To elaborate on this. The DSLR k mount equivalent lens would be retrofocal with added elements to get the wider angle lens to focus on the sensor. These add length and bulk to the lens when compared to one with a shorter registration distance.

larryaustin3 · 11-19-2020, 01:14 PM

Why is the 40mm XS lens that came with the K-01 so small as compared with lenses similar in focal length? Is it because of the mirrorless? Just wondering because I don't have it. Do people think that lens didn't "succeed" either?

lytrytyr · 11-19-2020, 01:43 PM

Larry, as far as we can tell, the glass is the same as in the DA 40 Ltd.
Marc Newson minimized the body of the lens, no distance scale, and just the rubber button lens cap.
It's quite a popular lens, they call it the "Flat Wonder".

gylfimag · 11-19-2020, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by larryaustin3

Why is the 40mm XS lens that came with the K-01 so small as compared with lenses similar in focal length? Is it because of the mirrorless? Just wondering because I don't have it. Do people think that lens didn't "succeed" either?

The small size of the DA 40mm XS lens has nothing to do with the fact that it was a kit lens for the mirrorless K-01. It works just as well on Pentax DSLRs. It was actually based on a film era design, the M series 40mm lens. It is a fine lens optically (much better than the original M series lens) and certainly small. The main problem is that the focal length is not very useful on an APS-c camera. Pentax would have been better off using the DA21mm as a kit lens. It is similar in size but a much more useful focal length. Or they could have used a collapsible zoom, like the DA 18-50 lens that they introduced later.

lytrytyr · 11-19-2020, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by gylfimag

The main problem is that the focal length is not very useful on an APS-c camera.

Topcon did well with their 58mm "normal" lens on film SLRs
(the prototype of the highly esteemed Voigtlaender Nokton 58mm),
and that's about the same angle of view as 40 mm on APS-C.

normhead · 11-19-2020, 02:32 PM

At a lower price point, it could have been a winner. I sold mine because I had way too many bodies, it, my K-5 and my K20D all went to MightyMike for resale.

Transit · 11-19-2020, 02:36 PM

Looking forward to getting a t adapter and trying the old brick on my telescope

gylfimag · 11-19-2020, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

Topcon did well with their 58mm "normal" lens on film SLRs
(the prototype of the highly esteemed Voigtlaender Nokton 58mm),
and that's about the same angle of view as 40 mm on APS-C.

Yes, 40mm on APS-c has the same field of view as a 60 mm lens on film so not much longer than 58 mm. Most film era 'normal' lenses were however shorter or 50 or 55 mm. Compact film cameras often came with a lens in the 35-40 mm range. The M series 40 mm lens was a nice offering in that spirit and a good match for the compact M series cameras (I had the ME Super).

**luftfluss** · 11-19-2020, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by larryaustin3

Why is the 40mm XS lens that came with the K-01 so small as compared with lenses similar in focal length? Is it because of the mirrorless? Just wondering because I don't have it. Do people think that lens didn't "succeed" either?

The 40 XS is only about 1/4" shorter than the DA 40 Ltd. The DA 40 Ltd seems larger than it is, in comparison to the XS, because one nearly always sees it with the hood on.

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11-16-2020, 08:37 PM	#76
brofkand Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 836	I think the K-01 is still quite popular, particularly with IR/full spectrum conversion people. It is a bit of a cult classic now. The point is the K-01 required a different kind of camera company, the same kind of company that would produce camera grips that the user can whittle down to their liking for a perfect grip (Pentax did that). Nikon nor Canon would never have released the K-01. Is that a good thing? Depends upon your perspective. The main thing is the only reason the K-01 was mirrorless was so the designer could reduce the "prism hump". There were no advantages to the design as it was. There was speculation that Pentax could design lenses that took advantage of that cavity - lenses that protruded into the body like some Nikon designs of the past. But they never came out. Had PDAF-on-sensor been available to Pentax at the time, and thus faster autofocus, the camera might have been more successful at the time - or at least, a K-02 might have happened.

11-16-2020, 09:10 PM	#77
dbs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Clare Valley S A Photos: Albums Posts: 7,564	How big is the lens on a GR111 ? physical size I mean replace with a K mount and off you go

11-16-2020, 10:11 PM	#78
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,626	Originally posted by dbs How big is the lens on a GR111 ? physical size I mean replace with a K mount and off you go The lens on the GR is located much closer to the sensor than on K-mount cameras, so the GR lens can be much smaller in comparison.

11-16-2020, 11:39 PM	#79
ZombieArmy Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 3,210	Originally posted by automorphism I really think it would require a lot more work than it sounds to make a camera like that... I don't think it would be "difficult" to make, the real question is why would it exist?

11-17-2020, 12:13 AM	#80
Bertrand3000 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 2,009	Originally posted by mlt Maybe take a KP body, update the sensor to one with dual pixel af, replace the pentaprism along with the mirror mechanicals and the af sensor with a 3-4 meg electronic viewfinder and bingo - a usable mirrorless Pentax. Keeps a decently built body that should be a bit lighter overall. The problem with that idea is.. what is the point of that? You replace the mirror with an EVF, you will get a mirrorless camera, but how it can be better, or more interesting, than the original KP? I've thought about this, maybe the new K-02 should use a shorter flange distance (and then a new mount) to be able to mount smaller lens with an APS-C sensor, but it should have a new mount-to-K adapter shipped with the camera, full with exposure and auto-focus. But it will never happen. Ricoh does not have the resource to make an entire new set of lenses.. and definitely should not. Staying specialized to DSLR is an excellent idea to differentiate themselves from Canon, Nikon and Sony.

11-17-2020, 03:33 AM - 2 Likes	#81
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,662	I still like my K-01 a lot. I'd love to see what Pentax could do with a sequel of sorts. At the same time, if I am honest, I know in my heart that mirrorless design probably doesn't fit very well with Pentax's ethos. Video has always seemed an after thought to them, live view auto focus has always been slow and live view tracking has been non existent. Maybe they could sort all of these things out. Maybe they could buy a top end EVF from some other company. Maybe they could get their specs up while keeping the size fairly small. At the end of the day, I just don't think they have the resources to match the functionality of Sony and Fuji's offerings. A K-02 would likely be a disaster unless they could figure out some niche that isn't targeted by others right now. Otherwise it would just end up being a second camera for the few Pentaxians left who desire an EVF.

11-17-2020, 07:05 AM - 1 Like	#82
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,445	Originally posted by luftfluss The lens on the GR is located much closer to the sensor than on K-mount cameras, so the GR lens can be much smaller in comparison. To elaborate on this. The DSLR k mount equivalent lens would be retrofocal with added elements to get the wider angle lens to focus on the sensor. These add length and bulk to the lens when compared to one with a shorter registration distance.

11-19-2020, 01:14 PM	#83
larryaustin3 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 105	Why is the 40mm XS lens that came with the K-01 so small as compared with lenses similar in focal length? Is it because of the mirrorless? Just wondering because I don't have it. Do people think that lens didn't "succeed" either?

11-19-2020, 01:43 PM	#84
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Larry, as far as we can tell, the glass is the same as in the DA 40 Ltd. Marc Newson minimized the body of the lens, no distance scale, and just the rubber button lens cap. It's quite a popular lens, they call it the "Flat Wonder".

11-19-2020, 01:50 PM	#85
gylfimag Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 90	Originally posted by larryaustin3 Why is the 40mm XS lens that came with the K-01 so small as compared with lenses similar in focal length? Is it because of the mirrorless? Just wondering because I don't have it. Do people think that lens didn't "succeed" either? The small size of the DA 40mm XS lens has nothing to do with the fact that it was a kit lens for the mirrorless K-01. It works just as well on Pentax DSLRs. It was actually based on a film era design, the M series 40mm lens. It is a fine lens optically (much better than the original M series lens) and certainly small. The main problem is that the focal length is not very useful on an APS-c camera. Pentax would have been better off using the DA21mm as a kit lens. It is similar in size but a much more useful focal length. Or they could have used a collapsible zoom, like the DA 18-50 lens that they introduced later.

11-19-2020, 02:16 PM	#86
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by gylfimag The main problem is that the focal length is not very useful on an APS-c camera. Topcon did well with their 58mm "normal" lens on film SLRs (the prototype of the highly esteemed Voigtlaender Nokton 58mm), and that's about the same angle of view as 40 mm on APS-C.

11-19-2020, 02:32 PM	#87
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	At a lower price point, it could have been a winner. I sold mine because I had way too many bodies, it, my K-5 and my K20D all went to MightyMike for resale.

11-19-2020, 02:36 PM	#88
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	Looking forward to getting a t adapter and trying the old brick on my telescope

11-19-2020, 02:44 PM	#89
gylfimag Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 90	Originally posted by lytrytyr Topcon did well with their 58mm "normal" lens on film SLRs (the prototype of the highly esteemed Voigtlaender Nokton 58mm), and that's about the same angle of view as 40 mm on APS-C. Yes, 40mm on APS-c has the same field of view as a 60 mm lens on film so not much longer than 58 mm. Most film era 'normal' lenses were however shorter or 50 or 55 mm. Compact film cameras often came with a lens in the 35-40 mm range. The M series 40 mm lens was a nice offering in that spirit and a good match for the compact M series cameras (I had the ME Super).

11-19-2020, 09:47 PM	#90
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,626	Originally posted by larryaustin3 Why is the 40mm XS lens that came with the K-01 so small as compared with lenses similar in focal length? Is it because of the mirrorless? Just wondering because I don't have it. Do people think that lens didn't "succeed" either? The 40 XS is only about 1/4" shorter than the DA 40 Ltd. The DA 40 Ltd seems larger than it is, in comparison to the XS, because one nearly always sees it with the hood on.