That's a null statement - you can say the same about conservatives, and especially corporate capitalists.

Don't think for a minute that a reactionary-conservative running a capitalist corporation won't hesitate to force-sell others' private property in order to get a right of way - think of the railroad tycoons.

Don't think for a minute that a crew of right wing nutcase militia won't hesitate to march right through private property to get at someone who's doing something - on their own property - they don't like.

Very often them liberals are on the side of the rights of the property owner, against enroachment by officers of the law, for example, or corporate interests.

---------- Post added 05-25-2010 at 12:00 PM ----------



To a point, yes. However, there's a cost involved that e.g. terrorist groups exploit.

One may point out statistics as well that demonstrate crime rates in NYC went down due to demographics rather than Law & Order, though the intelligent application of L&O played a role.

Finally, medieval punishment certainly tended to outweigh any potential benefit from crime, yet crime existed.

Biggest problem is everything is about the money. And both parties went too far to the left.

[Parallax]

............

Finally, medieval punishment certainly tended to outweigh any potential benefit from crime, yet crime existed.

And it always will. So does that mean criminals shouldn't be punished? We can't stop it, so why fight it?
I don't know whether you have kids or not; but..............
If your child picked up a brick and through it through the neighbors window,
or went to the local China-Mart and shoplifted an MP3 player, would you:

A: Explain that what he did was wrong and mete out an appropriate punishment that was
fair, but sufficiently undesirable that it would make him less likely to commit that offense again?

B: Take a long introspective look into your parenting to see where you went
wrong and what you could change about it so as to provide
an environment where he wouldn't feel a need or desire to do it again?

C: Do nothing

There are no absolutes, but I'm betting a substantial majority of the people
in prison had parents that chose option B or C.

And it always will. So does that mean criminals shouldn't be punished? We can't stop it, so why fight it?
I don't know whether you have kids or not; but..............
If your child picked up a brick and through it through the neighbors window,
or went to the local China-Mart and shoplifted an MP3 player, would you:

A: Explain that what he did was wrong and mete out an appropriate punishment that was
fair, but sufficiently undesirable that it would make him less likely to commit that offense again?

B: Take a long introspective look into your parenting to see where you went
wrong and what you could change about it so as to provide
an environment where he wouldn't feel a need or desire to do it again?

C: Do nothing

There are no absolutes, but I'm betting a substantial majority of the people
in prison had parents that chose option B or C.

Is that beating him to within an inch of his life? If so than count me on that one.

[Ratmagiclady]

B: Take a long introspective look into your parenting to see where you went
wrong and what you could change about it so as to provide
an environment where he wouldn't feel a need or desire to do it again?

C: Do nothing

There are no absolutes, but I'm betting a substantial majority of the people
in prison had parents that chose option B or C.

Quite the contrary, actually, particularly for violent crime. Corporal punishment as children, particularly arbitrary or 'Because I said so' punishment disconnected from any 'offenses' is in fact a major contributor to criminal behavior.

All that some attitudes about punishment teach, really, is to avoid punishment. And that only goes so far. Tends to instill a 'might makes right' attitude in a lot of people. Not to have respect for others.

[Parallax]

Quite the contrary, actually, particularly for violent crime. Corporal punishment as children, particularly arbitrary or 'Because I said so' punishment disconnected from any 'offenses' is in fact a major contributor to criminal behavior.

All that some attitudes about punishment teach, really, is to avoid punishment. Not to have respect for others.

Where did I say anything about corporal punishment?

What I said was "Explain that what he did was wrong and mete out an appropriate punishment that was fair, but sufficiently undesirable that it would make him less likely to commit that offense again?"

Isn't "an appropriate punishment that was fair," pretty much the antithesis of "arbitrary" or "because I said so" punishment?
I'm pretty sure the "appropriate" part disqualifies it from being classed as "disconnected from any 'offenses' ".

[Oldschool]

With all this talk on crime and punishment, it's interesting to note that the national crime rate continues to decline. Even Arizona, which used crime as one its key drivers for the new immigration law, reported a sharp decline in violent crime. Phoenix reported a 16.6% decline from 2008 to 2009.

Violent-Crime Rate Falls Again, FBI Reports - WSJ.com

Where did I say anything about corporal punishment?

What I said was "Explain that what he did was wrong and mete out an appropriate punishment that was fair, but sufficiently undesirable that it would make him less likely to commit that offense again?"

Isn't "an appropriate punishment that was fair," pretty much the antithesis of "arbitrary" or "because I said so" punishment?
I'm pretty sure the "appropriate" part disqualifies it from being classed as "disconnected from any 'offenses' ".

Jim, you know that's what you really meant now don't you?

Jim. Come on now. You know better. RML knows what you meant even if you never even thought it.

[Parallax]

Jim, you know that's what you really meant now don't you?

Jim. Come on now. You know better. RML knows what you meant even if you never even thought it.

Ya, sometimes me forgets.

[Rupert]

I never used corporal punishment with my two boys, it was not my style of parenting....but I can't give any proof that my way was effective....since Mrs Rupert beat them both half to death, with regularity.
Regards!

[Nesster]

Rupert! I finally found the perfect camera for your squirrels!

I never used corporal punishment with my two boys, it was not my style of parenting....but I can't give any proof that my way was effective....since Mrs Rupert beat them both half to death, with regularity.
Regards!

Rupert I've never punished a corporal in my life.

[Rupert]

Nesster, I appreciate your Squirrel...I always appreciate a good Squirrel!

Rupert! I finally found the perfect camera for your squirrels!

Here is Baby Otie trying to teach me to balance staying on topic and spreading Squirrel Propaganda....
(Shot with a 645 120 Macro Lens mounted on my K20D.....someday to be mounted on a 645D?)


I know that this is OT, but we are having a WSSA (Worldwide Squirrel Shooters Association) Frenzy from June 9th-13th here Flickr: Pentaxians and anyone with a Squirrel shot can join. I am proud to announce that PF will be hosting the WSSA Gallery in an Album here (Thanks Adam!), and since the WSSA includes Canon and Nikon shooters, we hope to bring many new Members to this Great Forum!
Best Regards!
Rupert

Nesster, I appreciate your Squirrel...I always appreciate a good Squirrel!




Here is Baby Otie trying to teach me to balance staying on topic and spreading Squirrel Propaganda....
(Shot with a 645 120 Macro Lens mounted on my K20D.....someday to be mounted on a 645D?)


I know that this is OT, but we are having a WSSA (Worldwide Squirrel Shooters Association) Frenzy from June 9th-13th here Flickr: Pentaxians and anyone with a Squirrel shot can join. I am proud to announce that PF will be hosting the WSSA Gallery in an Album here, and since the WSSA includes Canon and Nikon shooters, we hope to bring many new Members to this Great Forum!
Best Regards!
Rupert

No Remington shooters?

[Rupert]

No Remington shooters?

George, I sort of like you, and hope you never trip and fall out in the woods, there is nothing worse than a pack of Angry Squirrels led by Baby Otis....
Regards!