Let's talk about the Maine GOP's new party platform for a moment...

deadwolfbones · 05-12-2010, 11:59 AM

Climate Bill's Release Coincides With Rising Conservative Backlash - NYTimes.com

Quote:

Maine's GOP convention replaced its modest party platform Saturday with a last-minute substitute that seeks defeat of federal cap-and-trade efforts and calls for an investigation into "the warming myth."

The three-page document, which was approved by a majority of the 1,800 party members estimated to be attending, recognizes the conservative tea party movement and promotes eliminating the U.S. Department of Education, opposes abortion and gay marriage, and warns against "one world government."

Maine Republicans Adopt Tea Party Platform | Maine Politics

Quote:

The document calls for the elimination of the Department of Education and the Federal Reserve, demands an investigation of "collusion between government and industry in the global warming myth," suggests the adoption of "Austrian Economics," declares that "'Freedom of Religion' does not mean 'freedom from religion'" (which I guess makes atheism illegal), insists that "healthcare is not a right," calls for the abrogation of the "UN Treaty on Rights of the Child" and the "Law Of The Sea Treaty" and declares that we must resist "efforts to create a one world government."

It also contains favorable mentions of both the Tea Party and Ron Paul. You can read the whole thing here.

Dan Billings, who has served as an attorney for the Maine GOP, called the new platform "wack job pablum" and "nutcase stuff."

Despite the document's crazy content, Maine Republican Party Chair Charlie Webster insisted to the AP that all of the elements in the platform are things that Republicans support. He claimed to the Press Herald that these issues reflect the values of working-class Mainers.

I mean, on the one hand I'm all for the GOP continuing to marginalize itself by racing for the extreme right wing, but on the other hand, who the hell are these nutcases?

But then again it's just Maine...

Ratmagiclady · 05-12-2010, 01:16 PM

Eh, teabaggers, carpetbaggers... Just like the people from out of state who came in to spend millions to try and put fear-factor and falsehood out there about marriage equality, (A very corrupt enterprise, that.)

There's always been an ultraconservative element in various parts of Maine, but of late, the wingnuts have been represented by some truly outrageous haters. I think the land-use and property-values-obsessed conservatives are going to have to grow a pulse on this one.

Definitely it'll split the Republican party up there. Probably the GOP is going to roll in with the same kind of stuff said in less extreme language and claim how 'moderate' they really are by comparison.

deadwolfbones · 05-12-2010, 01:25 PM

**NaClH2O** · 05-12-2010, 02:34 PM

I don't know what to think, on the other side Maine has elected two of the most moderate Republicans in the Senate in Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe. The state also has a record of fairly liberal social initiatives. Medical marijuana and the like. And like RML said above, it will split the party. I personally think that a LOT of it has to do with the fact that many ppl are hurting financially.

NaCl("I'm scared and maybe even hungry...I'll do anything" )H2O

SteveM · 05-12-2010, 03:08 PM

"promotes eliminating the U.S. Department of Education"?? Why do they want to do that? Sounds like a taliban tactic to me.

GingeM · 05-12-2010, 03:30 PM

Quote:

"promotes eliminating the U.S. Department of Education"?? Why do they want to do that? Sounds like a taliban tactic to me.

No, not at all. It allows for localities to educate their children in the manner they see fit. Do you have a problem with parents having a direct say in the education of their children? Would you prefer a monolithic education system where everyone is taught exactly the same thing as dictated by a central government?

Oldschool · 05-12-2010, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by GingeM

No, not at all. It allows for localities to educate their children in the manner they see fit. Do you have a problem with parents having a direct say in the education of their children? Would you prefer a monolithic education system where everyone is taught exactly the same thing as dictated by a central government?

Actually I do want federal standards for education. We are in an information, science based economy and I want our children to be able to compete with the rest of the world. It's been proven over and over that a well education population is related to better economic output.

GingeM · 05-12-2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Actually I do want federal standards for education. We are in an information, science based economy and I want our children to be able to compete with the rest of the world. It's been proven over and over that a well education population is related to better economic output.

If you are educated then you know that the words "federal" and "standards" should never be placed next to each other unless to demonstrate incompetence.

That aside, are you saying that in this internet connected world a locality cannot be globally educated? The very power of modern communication is that the information is globally available, (despite certain governments blocking said information). Or is it that you prefer a small number of people, (government), control the "information"... Because that's what you said when you said "I do want federal standards for education."

SteveM · 05-12-2010, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by GingeM

No, not at all. It allows for localities to educate their children in the manner they see fit. Do you have a problem with parents having a direct say in the education of their children? Would you prefer a monolithic education system where everyone is taught exactly the same thing as dictated by a central government?

Yes, without a standard set of exams there is no baseline. I would want my child to be smart enough to pass a collage entrance exam for example. Let's face it, that baseline is set pretty low so I hope as a parent you would add to it, but that doesn't mean the baseline has to be removed. Why would they want to destroy the entire institution for everyone unless you had some sort of extremist agenda.

deadwolfbones · 05-12-2010, 04:08 PM

Our Tea Party Patriots at Work | The Moderate Voice

Quote:

How about eliminating the Department of Education? When first proposed by Ronald Reagan, the Department was in its infancy, only sucking up $6 billion dollars of taxpayer monies and serving as a repository for federal education programs that previously had existed in the various departments.

No more today. The Department is now a $60 billion behemoth with almost every school district in the country dependent on its largess. Cutting it down to size while gradually getting the feds out of the education business might be more to the point. But for our tea party patriots, no half measures and nothing “gradual” allowed.

GingeM · 05-12-2010, 04:16 PM

Quote:

I would want my child to be smart enough to pass a collage entrance exam for example.

Then why not let the colleges set the standard?

jeffkrol · 05-12-2010, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by GingeM

No, not at all. It allows for localities to educate their children in the manner they see fit.

It's called "home school" but unfortunately many are too lazy or "busy" (which is usually a euphemism for "don't bother me") to do it... so they just want it done their way but someone else to 1) do it 2) pay for it.

SteveM · 05-12-2010, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by GingeM

Then why not let the colleges set the standard?

They don't now?...that's weird. The government here (Provincial) introduced a few years ago a standardized set of final exams that a student must pass before being accepted into the next grade. I think it helped level the playing field and some of the school districts were being lobbied by groups with various agendas.

A popular one was that testing is too stressful and doesn't encourage individuals to learn at their own rate....therefore everyone passes into the next grade regardless where that are and each student works on whatever level they are at. There was no consideration that students might "coast" never having to work hard or worry about failing. Then they graduate and then find out the hard way that collage/university and working life doesn't operate that way.

I'd hate to see the government tests go away...

Anyways, I am presuming it wouldn't be a free for all if the dept of education was dismantled....??

GeneV · 05-12-2010, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

Our Tea Party Patriots at Work | The Moderate Voice

Very interesting site.

Ratmagiclady · 05-12-2010, 04:45 PM

Local school boards aren't something to idealize: they're easily dominated by people with religious agendas, book-banning manias, bigotries, and all the other things that can happen when, in fact, the only people fired up enough about it tend to be those who have indoctrination, not education, on their minds.

One town gets a stealth candidate or some other crony in charge, and all the kids can suffer for it. Some standards are needed, especially when a lot of people out there actually intend to gut the public schools so as a) not to pay their taxes and b) privilege people who can pay for private schools, (at least with 'taking taxpayer handouts' in the form of vouchers for 'private schools.' )

Frankly, a lot of people I know homeschool (it helps to be in a community where people are literate in the first place,) cause this state of affairs is often quite bad enough, already.

05-12-2010, 11:59 AM	#1
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Let's talk about the Maine GOP's new party platform for a moment... Climate Bill's Release Coincides With Rising Conservative Backlash - NYTimes.com Quote: Maine's GOP convention replaced its modest party platform Saturday with a last-minute substitute that seeks defeat of federal cap-and-trade efforts and calls for an investigation into "the warming myth." The three-page document, which was approved by a majority of the 1,800 party members estimated to be attending, recognizes the conservative tea party movement and promotes eliminating the U.S. Department of Education, opposes abortion and gay marriage, and warns against "one world government." Maine Republicans Adopt Tea Party Platform \| Maine Politics Quote: The document calls for the elimination of the Department of Education and the Federal Reserve, demands an investigation of "collusion between government and industry in the global warming myth," suggests the adoption of "Austrian Economics," declares that "'Freedom of Religion' does not mean 'freedom from religion'" (which I guess makes atheism illegal), insists that "healthcare is not a right," calls for the abrogation of the "UN Treaty on Rights of the Child" and the "Law Of The Sea Treaty" and declares that we must resist "efforts to create a one world government." It also contains favorable mentions of both the Tea Party and Ron Paul. You can read the whole thing here. Dan Billings, who has served as an attorney for the Maine GOP, called the new platform "wack job pablum" and "nutcase stuff." Despite the document's crazy content, Maine Republican Party Chair Charlie Webster insisted to the AP that all of the elements in the platform are things that Republicans support. He claimed to the Press Herald that these issues reflect the values of working-class Mainers. I mean, on the one hand I'm all for the GOP continuing to marginalize itself by racing for the extreme right wing, but on the other hand, who the hell are these nutcases? But then again it's just Maine...

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05-12-2010, 01:16 PM	#2
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Eh, teabaggers, carpetbaggers... Just like the people from out of state who came in to spend millions to try and put fear-factor and falsehood out there about marriage equality, (A very corrupt enterprise, that.) There's always been an ultraconservative element in various parts of Maine, but of late, the wingnuts have been represented by some truly outrageous haters. I think the land-use and property-values-obsessed conservatives are going to have to grow a pulse on this one. Definitely it'll split the Republican party up there. Probably the GOP is going to roll in with the same kind of stuff said in less extreme language and claim how 'moderate' they really are by comparison.

05-12-2010, 01:25 PM	#3
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450 Original Poster

05-12-2010, 02:34 PM	#4
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	I don't know what to think, on the other side Maine has elected two of the most moderate Republicans in the Senate in Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe. The state also has a record of fairly liberal social initiatives. Medical marijuana and the like. And like RML said above, it will split the party. I personally think that a LOT of it has to do with the fact that many ppl are hurting financially. NaCl("I'm scared and maybe even hungry...I'll do anything" )H2O

05-12-2010, 03:08 PM	#5
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	"promotes eliminating the U.S. Department of Education"?? Why do they want to do that? Sounds like a taliban tactic to me.

05-12-2010, 03:30 PM	#6
GingeM Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North of Canada Posts: 612	Quote: "promotes eliminating the U.S. Department of Education"?? Why do they want to do that? Sounds like a taliban tactic to me. No, not at all. It allows for localities to educate their children in the manner they see fit. Do you have a problem with parents having a direct say in the education of their children? Would you prefer a monolithic education system where everyone is taught exactly the same thing as dictated by a central government?

05-12-2010, 03:51 PM	#7
Oldschool Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 1,278	Originally posted by GingeM No, not at all. It allows for localities to educate their children in the manner they see fit. Do you have a problem with parents having a direct say in the education of their children? Would you prefer a monolithic education system where everyone is taught exactly the same thing as dictated by a central government? Actually I do want federal standards for education. We are in an information, science based economy and I want our children to be able to compete with the rest of the world. It's been proven over and over that a well education population is related to better economic output.

05-12-2010, 04:00 PM	#8
GingeM Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North of Canada Posts: 612	Quote: Actually I do want federal standards for education. We are in an information, science based economy and I want our children to be able to compete with the rest of the world. It's been proven over and over that a well education population is related to better economic output. If you are educated then you know that the words "federal" and "standards" should never be placed next to each other unless to demonstrate incompetence. That aside, are you saying that in this internet connected world a locality cannot be globally educated? The very power of modern communication is that the information is globally available, (despite certain governments blocking said information). Or is it that you prefer a small number of people, (government), control the "information"... Because that's what you said when you said "I do want federal standards for education."

05-12-2010, 04:05 PM	#9
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	Originally posted by GingeM No, not at all. It allows for localities to educate their children in the manner they see fit. Do you have a problem with parents having a direct say in the education of their children? Would you prefer a monolithic education system where everyone is taught exactly the same thing as dictated by a central government? Yes, without a standard set of exams there is no baseline. I would want my child to be smart enough to pass a collage entrance exam for example. Let's face it, that baseline is set pretty low so I hope as a parent you would add to it, but that doesn't mean the baseline has to be removed. Why would they want to destroy the entire institution for everyone unless you had some sort of extremist agenda.

05-12-2010, 04:08 PM	#10
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450 Original Poster	Our Tea Party Patriots at Work \| The Moderate Voice Quote: How about eliminating the Department of Education? When first proposed by Ronald Reagan, the Department was in its infancy, only sucking up $6 billion dollars of taxpayer monies and serving as a repository for federal education programs that previously had existed in the various departments. No more today. The Department is now a $60 billion behemoth with almost every school district in the country dependent on its largess. Cutting it down to size while gradually getting the feds out of the education business might be more to the point. But for our tea party patriots, no half measures and nothing “gradual” allowed.

05-12-2010, 04:16 PM	#11
GingeM Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North of Canada Posts: 612	Quote: I would want my child to be smart enough to pass a collage entrance exam for example. Then why not let the colleges set the standard?

05-12-2010, 04:21 PM	#12
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by GingeM No, not at all. It allows for localities to educate their children in the manner they see fit. It's called "home school" but unfortunately many are too lazy or "busy" (which is usually a euphemism for "don't bother me") to do it... so they just want it done their way but someone else to 1) do it 2) pay for it.

05-12-2010, 04:28 PM	#13
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	Originally posted by GingeM Then why not let the colleges set the standard? They don't now?...that's weird. The government here (Provincial) introduced a few years ago a standardized set of final exams that a student must pass before being accepted into the next grade. I think it helped level the playing field and some of the school districts were being lobbied by groups with various agendas. A popular one was that testing is too stressful and doesn't encourage individuals to learn at their own rate....therefore everyone passes into the next grade regardless where that are and each student works on whatever level they are at. There was no consideration that students might "coast" never having to work hard or worry about failing. Then they graduate and then find out the hard way that collage/university and working life doesn't operate that way. I'd hate to see the government tests go away... Anyways, I am presuming it wouldn't be a free for all if the dept of education was dismantled....??

05-12-2010, 04:41 PM	#14
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by deadwolfbones Our Tea Party Patriots at Work \| The Moderate Voice Very interesting site.

05-12-2010, 04:45 PM	#15
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Local school boards aren't something to idealize: they're easily dominated by people with religious agendas, book-banning manias, bigotries, and all the other things that can happen when, in fact, the only people fired up enough about it tend to be those who have indoctrination, not education, on their minds. One town gets a stealth candidate or some other crony in charge, and all the kids can suffer for it. Some standards are needed, especially when a lot of people out there actually intend to gut the public schools so as a) not to pay their taxes and b) privilege people who can pay for private schools, (at least with 'taking taxpayer handouts' in the form of vouchers for 'private schools.' ) Frankly, a lot of people I know homeschool (it helps to be in a community where people are literate in the first place,) cause this state of affairs is often quite bad enough, already.