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05-27-2010, 02:14 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
This argument cuts both ways.

Abolitionist churches were important drivers for change, based on the moral convictions of their members. MLK received lots of support from churches in the civil rights movement. Neither of these could be said to have been popular across the entire country, and arguably was political as well as moral.

Who gets to determine if a congregation, acting from their perceived moral convictions, is preaching good or evil, or is political?
It's not the question, though I'm well-aware people like me are just the next in line for the same treatment and arguments drawn out through history over and over.

Frankly, I think by any standards, it's hardly *goodness* to think *goodness* comes from fixating on harming others, but that's not really the point.

Is it *political?*
That's the question here.

I'd have to say, yes. Their efforts are hardly meant to apply only to their church members, and if people want to leave cause they're way off base, that's not surprising.

More than that, what does 'Preaching against' so obsessively mean in reality, ...what are they exhorting people to do, assuming they won't admit they're exhorting people to do harm to (people they conveniently *call* a certain kind of) 'sinners' more directly? If the message is so 'purely religious,' ...why harp on *this?* When there are much more clearly-stated 'sins' in their own demigods' supposedly-incontrovertible words that they seem to embrace?

Seriously. This isn't called a 'wedge issue' for nothing, and no one knows that better than who gets hammered upon.

05-27-2010, 02:31 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
....................
I know you have an "Agenda" to spread the word Ratlady, but we have heard it a thousand times. If you were going to change minds, it would have already happened, and if not you are just covering the same territory over and over for naught......
Regards!
Most of us here have an "agenda" about something and have posted about it a thousand times, so what's your point?
05-27-2010, 06:56 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Most of us here have an "agenda" about something and have posted about it a thousand times, so what's your point?
My point is that even George with his constant Obama bashing is not as agenda orientied as the Ratlady is on her perceived abuse. If there is anything on earth that the Ratlady can't turn into a LGBT situation, I haven't seen it....be honest...have you?
Regards!

As a matter of record, I do not disagree with many of her points, but find getting hammered with them over and over to be counter productive to her cause. Just my thoughts......
05-27-2010, 08:28 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
As a matter of record, I do not disagree with many of her points, but find getting hammered with them over and over to be counter productive to her cause. Just my thoughts......
This is just a guess; but it's possible that some people feel the same way about an awful lot of your posts, Rupert. Just my thoughts....

05-27-2010, 08:57 PM   #50
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Just observing engagement in the worst form of Gossip, by guys no less. Women here must be ROTFL their AO!
05-27-2010, 08:57 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
This is just a guess; but it's possible that some people feel the same way about an awful lot of your posts, Rupert. Just my thoughts....
And you can show me a common and continuing link to some specific cause in most all of my posts here? Well, let's start showing it Mr Jim! I'll be right here waiting.....
Regards!
05-27-2010, 09:26 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
And you can show me a common and continuing link to some specific cause in most all of my posts here? Well, let's start showing it Mr Jim! I'll be right here waiting.....
Regards!
Purely speculation on my part, Jim. Purely speculation.

05-28-2010, 06:30 AM   #53
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In RML's defense here - My first reaction was, jeez, there's plenty of other things the fundie churches preach, I could probably come up with a real long list, easy. Turns out, I couldn't.

Abortion. Guns? Gays. Welfare? Illegal Immigration? NPR? I can't think of very many, the Family Values thing covers abortion, gays and welfare.

So yes, currently I'd guess gays and abortion would be vying for #1
05-28-2010, 06:33 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
My point is that even George with his constant Obama bashing is not as agenda orientied as the Ratlady is on her perceived abuse. If there is anything on earth that the Ratlady can't turn into a LGBT situation, I haven't seen it....be honest...have you?
Even if in fact, you or George are the ones to broach the topic, then say, 'You're bringing this up by disagreeing with my blithe assertions of your sinful inferiority?'

And you haven't answered any of the questions I raised. Just gone on the attack, yourself.

QuoteQuote:
As a matter of record, I do not disagree with many of her points, but find getting hammered with them over and over to be counter productive to her cause. Just my thoughts......
Well, I've never been very convinced by arguments that 'Shut up and take it or what I'm doing to you is your own fault,' really makes any sense.

People's human rights aren't up to you to decide on just cause you claim your religion allows you to. Frankly, as long as people are free to leave, you can say what you want in your churches, and if it's lies about others, yes, others will probably suffer for it.

But, yeah, it's political speech to have some preacher say all of Christianity will fall apart if they can't 'preach against' equal rights.

Blaming the victims for what you do to them seems pretty well-ingrained, especially when these kinds of churches are promised *political power over others.* It corrupts, pretty badly, I can't help but notice. Go ahead and blame messengers and victims, treat every single instance of anything as an isolated incident, blame someone else...

Consider that every *other* minority the conservative churches justified hating... Well, they turned out to be *wrong,* didn't they?

One of the better points of Christianity is you're *theoretically allowed to change your ways* ....but not if you're too concerned about temporal power and authority over others.

Frankly, when these same preachers claim that any law not maintaining injustice and inequality for LBGTs threatens to 'stifle their speech,' (even if they're specifically-protected when it comes to speaking hate against LBGTs) ...particularly regarding hate * crimes* laws, they're admitting there's a connection there between what they say and what LBGTs live to one degree or another, in fear of happening to ourselves or ones we love.)

If they don't think the blatant political campaigning, using hate and fear, (even on 'issues:' Vote Homophobe or God hates you!')
*is actually political,* ...why are they on all the *politics* shows and boards and everything? Who are they talking to?

---------- Post added 05-28-2010 at 09:39 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
In RML's defense here - My first reaction was, jeez, there's plenty of other things the fundie churches preach, I could probably come up with a real long list, easy. Turns out, I couldn't.

Abortion. Guns? Gays. Welfare? Illegal Immigration? NPR? I can't think of very many, the Family Values thing covers abortion, gays and welfare.

So yes, currently I'd guess gays and abortion would be vying for #1
Yeah, but be fair, Nesster, they also go after the 'sin' of not being a Christian, or of being environmentalist, or of using science to evaluate the world... competently...
05-28-2010, 06:43 AM   #55
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Relax Ratlady! I just started a new thread for you! Have fun!
Best Regards!
Rupert
05-28-2010, 06:47 AM   #56
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*Doh!* teaching of evolution completely slipped my mind! And Thomas Jefferson
05-28-2010, 09:29 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
*Doh!* teaching of evolution completely slipped my mind! And Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson is that other thread.
05-28-2010, 09:39 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by mel Quote
Thomas Jefferson is that other thread.
And which is the Evolution thread? Thomas who? Do we know him?
Regards!
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