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05-25-2010, 08:52 PM   #1
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Troops to the Mexican border: Obama to send 1,200

WASHINGTON AP - Under pressure to take action, President Barack Obama on Tuesday ordered 1,200 National Guard troops to boost security along the U.S.-Mexico border, pre-empting Republican efforts to force a congressional vote to send the troops.
Obama will also request $500 million for border protection and law enforcement activities, according to lawmakers and administration officials.

The president's action comes as chances for comprehensive immigration reform, Obama's long-stated goal, look increasingly dim in this election year. Obama has been all but compelled to do something since Arizona's passage of a tough illegal-immigration law thrust the border problem into the public spotlight.

The Mexican Embassy said Tuesday it hoped the National Guard troops would be used to fight drug cartels and not enforce immigration laws. Mexico has traditionally objected to the use of military forces to control undocumented migration, saying such measures would criminalize migrants and open the way for potential abuse.

What a crock! 1200 troops without bullets is a joke. A bad one. Obama reminds me of a greenhorn rancher that closes the gate after all the livestock has gotten out. Too little too late, just like the oil spill except he has done nothing about it except putting a boot on the throat of BP. Yeah right.
The mexican Embassy complaining about undocumented migration? That is really a joke. Try to sneak in Mexico from the south. What do you think happens if one gets caught? Warning, Warning, do not try it and get caught.
A

05-25-2010, 09:10 PM   #2
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I think your worries are exaggerated Steve....George submitted a plan earlier that is sure to be taken up by Arizona any day now, where illegals are just shot on sight. So there is no need for the National Guard to waste taxpayer money on bullets, when Arizonans are going to spend their own cash on them. I guess they will shoot first and then check for "Papers"? I'm sure the smart people of Arizona will figure it out.........

Too bad Mr Gringe is out of town, you two could get together here and have a two man Pity-Party for BP....isn't it a shame how they have been maligned and villified just for murdering eleven men and ruining the Gulf of Mexico.....and they did it all for Greed, which, after all, is as American as you can get........right?
I requested Mr Ginge to take his BP sympathies down to the Coast of Louisiana and put together some Town Hall Meetings where he could explain how this is all "No Big Deal" and gather the support of the people there for poor abused BP, with that Obama Boot at their throat........but he never responded. Since you are much closer, perhaps you could take up my offer....I did advise that I would cover your expenses for going along the Coast and singing the praises of BP. I do want to add that my offer does not include Burial Expenses.......
Best Regards!
05-26-2010, 04:01 AM   #3
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Now, Rupert, I believe you hit on a brilliant scheme. BP... British Petroleum... Border Patrol... make BP operate the BP! They will siphon off a smallish trickle of illegal Mexicans, enough to ensure a profitable price level is maintained in the market. All will be fine - till someone makes a mistake, forgets a battery, or finds the flaw in Halliburton's wall, and we get a gusher. 11,000 Mexicans a day - though our conservatives here will insist that's more like 1,100 except for the liberal press getting all hysterical... and someone will point out that to put things into perspective, you can actually fit 1,100 Mexican bodies in a olympic size swimming pool.

All efforts to cap the gusher prove useless. The fundie right denies scientists' projections of the impact of so many brown skinned people spreading over large areas of land ... telling us nature can absorb them, and besides, the tide's taking them to the People's Republic of California, so who cares? Texas is overrun, and Colorado, where for the first time an apprciable minority nears 50% of the ski population. Turns out Mexicans are excellent skiers, and suddenly the US Olympic committee starts to worry about the next olympics.

The conservatives accuse Democrats of flogging BP and environmental protection as fomenting hysteria for political purposes.
05-26-2010, 04:24 AM   #4
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Respectfully, the OP has nothing to do with BP or the oil spill other than an offhand and minor remark. Please keep this thread on track about the troops being sent to our border with Mexico.

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05-26-2010, 06:22 AM   #5
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It is generally accepted that there is a definite correlation between the economy and the numbers of illegal or undocumented (or whatever you want to call them) immigration. Border enforcement has very little to do with it. See table below.

What the right wing conveniently forgets is that there are over 20 million illegal/undocumented immigrants already here. All they talk about is border control without any mention of those here. Or they talk about rounding them all up and sending them back. This is not feasible in terms of the numbers.

For immigration reform to actually work, a comprehensive program must be enacted that looks at both border control as well as a plan for those already here. Congress will never tackle this during an election year. So, we are stuck with listening to the radicals on both sides of the issue with little being done.
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05-26-2010, 06:37 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldschool Quote
It is generally accepted that there is a definite correlation between the economy and the numbers of illegal or undocumented (or whatever you want to call them) immigration. Border enforcement has very little to do with it. See table below.

What the right wing conveniently forgets is that there are over 20 million illegal/undocumented immigrants already here. All they talk about is border control without any mention of those here. Or they talk about rounding them all up and sending them back. This is not feasible in terms of the numbers.

For immigration reform to actually work, a comprehensive program must be enacted that looks at both border control as well as a plan for those already here. Congress will never tackle this during an election year. So, we are stuck with listening to the radicals on both sides of the issue with little being done.
I don't know what you're talking about but what I'm talking about is shutting off the flow first. Stop, or at least curtail the influx of illegals coming into this country. Once that's done we can deal with the illegals here already. And amnesty is not an option. Reagan tried that and it didn't work. We need to actually start enforcing out laws. Not enacting new legislation that just will be ignored again and again. mexico can do it so we should be able to also. No one accuses them of racial profiling.
05-26-2010, 06:50 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
I don't know what you're talking about but what I'm talking about is shutting off the flow first. Stop, or at least curtail the influx of illegals coming into this country. Once that's done we can deal with the illegals here already. And amnesty is not an option. Reagan tried that and it didn't work. We need to actually start enforcing out laws. Not enacting new legislation that just will be ignored again and again. mexico can do it so we should be able to also. No one accuses them of racial profiling.
What I expected.

05-26-2010, 06:51 AM   #8
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2 way border

QuoteQuote:
"The Mexican government considers that the decision ... should translate into the channeling of additional resources to make efforts more effective to combat the trafficking of illegal arms and cash to Mexico," the Mexican foreign ministry said in a statement.
UPDATE 6-Obama to send troops, bolster border security | Reuters
As a side note... police input on law:
Attorney general, police chiefs to meet about Arizona immigration law - CNN.com
QuoteQuote:
Washington (CNN) -- Police chiefs from about a dozen cities are scheduled to meet with U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder on Wednesday to talk about concerns they have with Arizona's new immigration law.

The group includes police chiefs from Phoenix and Tucson in Arizona; Los Angeles, California; and Houston, Texas.

The chiefs will tell Holder that they worry the new law will "drive a wedge" between the community and police, and damage the trust that officers have worked to build "over many years," according to a statement by the group.
05-26-2010, 07:38 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldschool Quote
What I expected.
Soooo you would rather just keep trying to bail out the boat 1 gallon at a time while 20 gallons is gushing in I take it? Stop the hemorrhage. Then once stopped or at least under control where there is time to assess correctly do so. As it stands now we are doing neither.
05-26-2010, 08:15 AM   #10
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If we increase border control or stop the hemmorage as you call it (which will not stem the tide of immigration), Congress will consider their job done and nothing will be done to address the any of the other issues around the 20 million or so that are here. The right wing will declare success and we'll be in the same situation as now.

The only way to have any success is to address the whole issue. This means some type of guest worker program, a plan for those already here, as well as border control. Anything done that doesn't address these and all the other issues won't solve anything.
05-26-2010, 08:16 AM   #11
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Oldschool wrote: What I expected.

It doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever to "do something" about those already here illegally without making sure they are not able to simply return whenever they are ready to do so. Simply sending them home only gets them a free trip to visit the relatives. If the job awaits them in the US and the means to attain it is still available, they will simply return at will and continue with life.
The first step in any rational immigration policy is to block entry then enforce the current laws. If the federal government (in whose balliwick this responsibility lies) is unwilling to meet its Constitutional obligation, then the States are going to have to take this task upon themselves.
05-26-2010, 08:21 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldschool Quote
If we increase border control or stop the hemmorage as you call it (which will not stem the tide of immigration), Congress will consider their job done and nothing will be done to address the any of the other issues around the 20 million or so that are here. The right wing will declare success and we'll be in the same situation as now.

The only way to have any success is to address the whole issue. This means some type of guest worker program, a plan for those already here, as well as border control. Anything done that doesn't address these and all the other issues won't solve anything.
Why wouldn't it stop the "tide" of illegal immigration. Oh. They're not undocumented workers. Let's call them what they are. ILLEGAL. Someone breaks into your home are they just uninvited guests? Would you not call the local leos? Or would you feed them and let them live in your house?
05-26-2010, 08:26 AM   #13
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We had eight years of Jesus George running the show and during that time span, and before, Arizona was having a record Boom of growth and building across the State. The economy was growing, the physical growth was phenomenal, and I heard little complaint about the hundreds of thousands of illegals that were the backbone of the cheap labor that fueled the fires of their economy. Now that some Fat Cats have fallen on hard times, and overspent their budgets, we see that they can't possibly be responsible...it has to be the Mexicans that has brought them this downturn in their fortunes?
I agree that there is a problem, but it didn't come with Obama, it came decades ago when people turned their backs to the illegals building their new McCastle in the Arizona Hills....and then started keeping their well manicured lawns and washing their giant SUV's and desert Hummers. Now they holler FOUL! Yes, I agree with that too, and the people of Arizona are the ones that have fouled their own waters.....and demand that "Obama Fix It!".
It is the right that is always screaming "Acccountability"....well, let's see some here.
Regards!
05-26-2010, 08:34 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
We had eight years of Jesus George running the show and during that time span, and before, Arizona was having a record Boom of growth and building across the State. The economy was growing, the physical growth was phenomenal, and I heard little complaint about the hundreds of thousands of illegals that were the backbone of the cheap labor that fueled the fires of their economy. Now that some Fat Cats have fallen on hard times, and overspent their budgets, we see that they can't possibly be responsible...it has to be the Mexicans that has brought them this downturn in their fortunes?
I agree that there is a problem, but it didn't come with Obama, it came decades ago when people turned their backs to the illegals building their new McCastle in the Arizona Hills....and then started keeping their well manicured lawns and washing their giant SUV's and desert Hummers. Now they holler FOUL! Yes, I agree with that too, and the people of Arizona are the ones that have fouled their own waters.....and demand that "Obama Fix It!".
It is the right that is always screaming "Acccountability"....well, let's see some here.
Regards!
Rupert it has been going on a long time. Before Reagan as well. Reagan tried the amnesty and it didn't work. This is a truly bipartisan failure that needs to be addressed. However it doesn't help when the administration instructs BP not to do their job. And even if AZ sends the illegals to them they say they won't pursue. So they still won't do the job the taxpayers are paying them for. Time for some turnover.
05-26-2010, 08:51 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Why wouldn't it stop the "tide" of illegal immigration. Oh. They're not undocumented workers. Let's call them what they are. ILLEGAL. Someone breaks into your home are they just uninvited guests? Would you not call the local leos? Or would you feed them and let them live in your house?
But that's where you're wrong. We did invite them. All those meat packing plants, farms (that probably collect billions in corporate welfare called farm subsidies) needing seasonal workers, mc mansion owners wanting cheap landscapers, and live in nannies, etc.

As long as there is demand for these workers, they will be here. Additional money thrown at border control will do little. Look at drugs. How much money do we spend on the supply side. Until we control demand, there will be no change.
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