[creampuff]

Israel will continue to go unpunished, just like the too many to name violations the Jewish state has committed over the years. The Jewish lobby has pretty much got a stranglehold of influence on Congress and the corridors of power and media in the US. So the US will yet again or water down or apply the veto at the Security Council for any resolution against Israel. Unfortunately the average US citizen simply believes the pro-Jewish bias of the US media outlets hook, line and sinker without ever pausing to think if US national interests and Israel's national interests are one and the same.
All the European states will protest meekly because like it or not, most of Europe still have influential Jewish communities who can influence public policy. Perhaps because half of Europe comes under the Israel nuclear strike umbrella. Israel is the regional military and nuclear superpower in the middle East and will spare no efforts to prevent nuclear parity by any Arab country (hence it's demonization of Iran's nuclear ambitions), yet it itself has never subjected itself to any IAEA inspection, never signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and maintain a policy of nuclear ambiguity, never acknowledging openly that it has nuclear weapons (a few hundred warheads for sure).
Recent revelations that Israel was close to selling the bomb to South Africa make it no different than Pakistan's Dr. A Q Khan trying to sell nuke technology to Libya and Iran. Ironical thing is it was the enterprising French who first gave Israel nuclear technology. Iraq's Osirak reactor was also sold by the French but the good neighbour that the Israeli state is, they took blew it up in an pre-emptive airstrike.
Israel has held an entire populace under occupation for more than 50 years (perhaps an eerie parallel to the Warsaw ghetto), invaded it's neighbours, killed indiscriminately, held thousands of people in prison without trial and other human right violations. So this latest incident of the aid ships (same modus operandi as Somali pirates) will be yet another incident that will get swept under the carpet. Par for the course. God will keep his covenant and will still love his people, stiff-necked and proud as they are, but they got plenty of atoning for the sins they are racking up.

---------- Post added 06-06-2010 at 06:11 PM ----------

I'm not huge on government and politics but I would assume stuff like this is frowned upon by all countries...even if no one is harmed in the end. But I think the fact that everyone knows Iran has some nukes hidden around somewhere strikes fear into everyone. I think if there ever was a WWIII, it would be because Iran sent off nuke or some other type of missile toward another country

As it stands, Iran is still some way to being able to develop a civilian reactor, much less being able to weaponise whatever nuclear material it currently has. A more probable scenario for a major war would be the Jewish state being threatened and isolated and launch the pre-emptive first strike with it's nukes, dragging the US into a wider war.

[lithos]

SMH Journos Kate Geraghty and Paul McGeogh were on board the flotilla.

(Note: Kate Geraghty only got those photos out by constantly swapping-out memory cards during the raid and gaffer-taping them to her clothing and body. She got three out, despite a stripsearch. The Israelis said onboard the ship that all confiscated equipment - laptops, cameras, audio recorders, etc - would be returned, but that never happened.)

Another of the dead was said to be an Indonesian cameraman, Sura Fachrizaz, shot in the chest. Also among the dead was a Malaysian doctor who, activists said, was shot while treating the wounded.

Has any third-party, reputable source actually confirmed they were actually smuggling weapons to Hamas?

It seems many here are turning the possibility of smuggling weapons into the fact of smuggling weapons. Granted, this is PentaxForums, and given some of the logic I've seen in the News and Rumours thread, I suppose it's to be expected.

Interesting comparison of two IDF filmclips released on YouTube.

Anyone also know for a fact Iran has nukes? Far as I know, the only state in the Mid East that has nukes is...Israel.

Do you think that England inspected shipments into Northern Ireland during the troubles?

I'm sure if the Brits had opened fire, the US would've had a shitfit. Seizing US property and all that...

[newmikey]

I think that this was simply provoked by the Turkish IHH terrorist who wanted to become martyrs. They succeeded.

A passenger ferry with 700 people and a neglible amount of cargo does not make for an effective aid convoy, now does it?

If this would have been a Cuban ship approaching the US coast or vice-versa, the result would have been a torpedo amidships, full stop.

[lithos]

I think that this was simply provoked by the Turkish IHH terrorist who wanted to become martyrs. They succeeded.

And the Malaysian? And the Indonesian?

A passenger ferry with 700 people and a neglible amount of cargo does not make for an effective aid convoy, now does it?

Of course not. It was a symbolic gesture designed to draw attention to the issues in Gaza. Worked a treat, though I'm not sure what'll happen - there are too many Israeli supporters around the world for world governments to do anything without alienating significant portions of voters.

Then again, it's not exactly paradise, living in the world's largest open-air prison. I'm sure any supplies would've been welcome.

Still, you've got to laugh at how quickly people jump to conclusions about the people on the boats.

[newmikey]

I'm sure any supplies would've been welcome.
.

Yep, I would certainly have thought so... but:

"Hamas officials on Wednesday refused to allow into the Gaza Strip 21 truckloads of humanitarian aid that had been offloaded from the Gaza-bound flotilla ships currently docked at Ashdod Port, until “all” of those detained in Monday’s naval raid were released."

That was last week. The 21 truckloads are still waiting...

[gokenin]

I just wonder where is the public demand that Hamas disarm and declare that Isreal has a right to co-exist with a Palastinian state? Why should a nation allow uninspected materials to flow into a region that is controlled by an organization thats sole purpose is the destruction of your nation?

but back to the OP instead of this attack on Isreal

The Iranians would not have stopped a flotilla attempting to enter their nation with the sole purpose of bringing aid to the Kurds for example. The Iranians would have captured or destroyed the ships under the assumption that they were bringing aid to a segment of Iran that was attempting to overthrow the central government. They would not allow the materails to come ashore be inspected and then allow them to go on to the original destination.

[lithos]

"Hamas officials on Wednesday refused to allow into the Gaza Strip 21 truckloads of humanitarian aid that had been offloaded from the Gaza-bound flotilla ships currently docked at Ashdod Port, until “all” of those detained in Monday’s naval raid were released."

Oh, absolutely. They're fundamentalist dicks. Hamas only looks out for itself.

But, you're fool if you think all Gazans support Hamas.

And you're a bigger fool if you think there aren't any fundie f**kwits on the Israeli side, either. Just as Hamas and Iran seek the destruction of Israel, so are there many Israelis who honestly believe it's ok to treat everyone else like shit because they are, after all God's Chosen People™ and that god gave them the land.*

*Note to the British: you are not god.

[newmikey]

But, you're fool if you think all Gazans support Hamas.

I just read back the thread to see where I said such a thing. Very relieved I did nothing of the sort.

A*Note to the British: you are not god.

I'd wholeheartedly agree with that, but the same goes for the French, the Polynesian, the Kazakhs etc. etc. I'm curious as to why are you aiming at the British here though? The Marmara's crew weren't British, the Israeli soldiers were .. ahem.. Israeli and I'm Dutch myself so a fail to see a connection?

if you think there aren't any fundie f**kwits on the Israeli side, either

Oh, there are thousands, but the majority of non-fundie Israeli f**kwits supported this action too. Does that make them...oh well, let's not go there shall we?

[lithos]

I just read back the thread to see where I said such a thing. Very relieved I did nothing of the sort.

Was a generalisation, not specifically referring to you.

I'd wholeheartedly agree with that, but the same goes for the French, the Polynesian, the Kazakhs etc. etc. I'm curious as to why are you aiming at the British here though? The Marmara's crew weren't British, the Israeli soldiers were .. ahem.. Israeli and I'm Dutch myself so a fail to see a connection?

Joke. That's who gave the Palestinian territories to make Israel back in the forties.

Oh, there are thousands, but the majority of non-fundie Israeli f**kwits supported this action too. Does that make them...oh well, let's not go there shall we?

Probably. And the millions of people who support the flotilla's action?

[aliquis]

If Iran had committed an act of piracy on the high seas, including killing passengers on a ship and seizing ships that were in international waters and kidnapping the crews and surviving passengers, would the world be quiet about it?

The world isn't exactly silent after Israel did it either ..

But yeah, USA would probably react differently ..

[justinr]

*Note to the British: you are not god.

The trouble is that many senior figures in the British establishment think just that and there are many many people who have tried in vain to alliviate them of this this misunderstanding over the years, but it is both inbred and cultured I'm afarid (see the various notes on the public school system). It's one of the reasons I got out.

[Votesh]

It would be a different story if Israel merely inspected shipments for weapons, and let everything that wasn't a weapon through. They don't though. Anything that could conceivably be used by "terrorists"(cement, pipes, etc.), is not allowed through. Getting the people of Gaza food and medical supplies is great, but if you don't also get them things like concrete and other building supplies they will remain in the terrible situation that they are in currently. Not to mention, most Gazans still only get one meal a day, or less. That's with "humanitarian aid".

It's stuff like this that will perpetuate the hate of the state of Israel by Palestinians. Not that allowing building supplies and the like to enter Gaza will instantly make the Palestinians love Israel, but their current course of action will cause only harm to relations.

well before you go and throw Isreal under the bus lets look at it another way. Would wheatfield have any objection to say someone smuggling arms into the Quebecois if they were in open revolt against the Canadian government? would the US object to someone smuggling surface to surface missles to milita groups in the US if they were in active conflict with the US goverment? Isreal is simply inspecting shipments going into an area controlled by Hamas who has simply expressed that they will not stop until they have seen Isreal removed from the map.
Do you think that England inspected shipments into Northern Ireland during the troubles? Does every nation on the planet routinely inspect every shipment that comes into their territorial waters? Before you say it I do not believe that the troubles in the middle east will simply dissapear if Isreal were to allow unmonitored flow of materials into areas that are controlled by organizations that are out to elimnate it from the earth.

[gokenin]

It would be a different story if Israel merely inspected shipments for weapons, and let everything that wasn't a weapon through. They don't though. Anything that could conceivably be used by "terrorists"(cement, pipes, etc.), is not allowed through. Getting the people of Gaza food and medical supplies is great, but if you don't also get them things like concrete and other building supplies they will remain in the terrible situation that they are in currently. Not to mention, most Gazans still only get one meal a day, or less. That's with "humanitarian aid".

It's stuff like this that will perpetuate the hate of the state of Israel by Palestinians. Not that allowing building supplies and the like to enter Gaza will instantly make the Palestinians love Israel, but their current course of action will cause only harm to relations.

Of course the embargo could simply be lifted if the people of Gaza would elect someone other than Hamas as their leaders as well. The embargo only went into place after Hamas won majority rule in the Gaza Strip. One could simply say that if the people of Gaza really wanted peace with Isreal they would not support an organization thats goal is the destruction of Isreal.

[Rico]

Here is a video of the Israeli Naval soldiers boarding the ship. Where are the peace activists again?

You Tube

You Tube

[Ira]

Slight confusion here, could you confirm that you are referring to the sliding down of ropes of fully armed soldiers on to unarmed boats as the start of the violence?

Not at all:

Naval blockades are totally legal when you're in a state of war, as is Israel is with Hamas. So you're wrong on your initial premise to begin with.

The video, and eyewitness accounts, all attest to the fact that a civilian ship near a nation's border was bordered by that nation's military, and the passengers first attacked those soldiers. More importantly, when you look at who sponsored this voyage, and many who were passengers, they were members of Hamas-supporting groups in Turkey. It doesn't matter that they tried to sail under the false pretense of a civilian humaitarian mission, because it wasn't. It was a staged political act.

And I can guarantee you that they were dancing in the Hamas offices that 9 people died, because this has always been their modus operandi, like Hezbollah. They launch their rocket attacks from civilian populations...Israel retaliates...and they relish in the thousands of deaths that they themselves have caused, and enjoy the PR value.

The problem is, they've been playing this same game for 20 years. And the bigger problem is those without the IQ to realize it, or those where when it comes to Jews, the facts don't matter.

Israel is at war with Hamas and Hezbollah, because Hamas and Hezbollah have declared it so. But when Israel behaves like it's in this very real war, they're called Nazis.

Mind you--no problems in the West Bank.

---------- Post added 06-06-2010 at 03:53 PM ----------

Israel will continue to go unpunished, just like the too many to name violations the Jewish state has committed over the years. The Jewish lobby has pretty much got a stranglehold of influence on Congress and the corridors of power and media in the US. So the US will yet again or water down or apply the veto at the Security Council for any resolution against Israel. Unfortunately the average US citizen simply believes the pro-Jewish bias of the US media outlets hook, line and sinker without ever pausing to think if US national interests and Israel's national interests are one and the same.
All the European states will protest meekly because like it or not, most of Europe still have influential Jewish communities who can influence public policy.

Did you copy this verbatim from Mein Kampf, or do you actually believe it?

---------- Post added 06-06-2010 at 04:05 PM ----------

Getting the people of Gaza food and medical supplies is great, but if you don't also get them things like concrete and other building supplies they will remain in the terrible situation that they are in currently. Not to mention, most Gazans still only get one meal a day, or less.

It's stuff like this that will perpetuate the hate of the state of Israel by Palestinians.

Israel is reconsidering the cement embargo based on the fallout from the tragic flotilla incident, but make no mistake about it--Hamas uses this material to build bunkers. Israel has no other motivation to disallow this material, and if you think they're doing it just to be mean, you're just plain wrong.

Next, it really doesn't matter what Israel does or doesn't do to perpetuate the hate of Hamas--and non-Arabs around the world. They're simply "Jews," and for thousands of years, that's been reason enough for people to condemn them.

Do you know about one of the more recent major Ehtiopian famines? Well, there's an African Jewish tribe there, and during the famine, Israel sent in Jumbo Jets to rescue them and bring them to Israel. And dozens of world leaders complained how "racist" Israel was, only evacuating the Jews.

While none of these countries evacuated and saved a single soul.

Of course, there are little things like Israel having a true democracy and elections, freedom of worship, no stoning of sinners or mandatory prayer calls or wardrobe.

But of course--what does any of this mean to some of you? They're Jews, therefore inferior to even the most radical of Islamic cultures.