[Artesian]

Ira,
You speak the truth. Very well said and I agree 100%. It is sad that the majority of Cubans have had to suffer for all these years. Yes, "VIVA SANTOS!!! God bless this soon-to-be new president of Colombia!!!"

He's going to teach the Fidelistas and Chavistas a thing or two about cojones and democracia. Lets hope he does.
A

[Phil1]

'Or, if we finally get a president with balls in this country, an invasion.
This, my friends, is the only thing that will change Cuba for the better.

Geeezuzz NO! Cuba is doing fine 1/4 afloat. WTH do we care about Cuba? Let the Mexicans and Canadians take it over and run it better. There is nada there we need, or covet, absolutly nothing and we certainly don't need more debt. Even the Russians dumped it after pumping millions into it for nothing.

If you need sunshine, beaches, A/C and toilet paper pick any island in the Carib or Mexico. Better yet visit Florida, Hawaii or Las Vegas. If you have to have a few Cohibas buy them in Canada or Mexico but be wary, about 1/2 of them are fakes.

Light up a Costa Rican banana instead, you won't get cancer.

Viva Zapata, Viva Villa!

i go there at least once a year

its awesome

its a no luxury life with everything that you NEED provided for.

Now that's a bunch of crappola.

[Gooshin]

Go to Cuba and talk to the locals, then tell me what crapola is or not.

I was in Cuba for a while and used Bertolt Brecht for Toilet paper a couple of times but actually I know a bunch of havaneros who'll go out and buy expensive shoes (if possible Nike or Adidas) or perfumes before they'll get toilet paper. Apart from that, toilet paper is fairly unhygienic and not very ecological. Using water sprays like in Japan is actually much cleaner, and apparently really female-friendly, too :-D

"no air-conditioning"?? lol. As if that was a concern for a 3rd world country. Humanity did well enough without it for the last couple of hundred thousand years. Given that it's ecological nonsense, extremely energy intensive and not exactly good for your health you might as well skip it and invest the money in biotechnology.

At least most Cubans have a good grasp of the difference between the French, the Brits, the Italians, the Nigerians, the Mexicans and the Russians (among others). I think you go to a good many places in the US and... well, maybe you should just catch up on what Oprah Winfrey has been saying, or Paris Hilton's latest tricks. That way you don't have to explain where Europe is. Or that Africa isn't actually a country.

No offense to the gringos. I spent a couple of months there in winter and loved it. But don't compare apples with pears, or it'll come back to haunt you.

Did you mean viva Zapata?

Try no electricity. Or no water. Fidel, now Raul has it shut off at his discretion. Food from other countries? Humanitarian donations? You've got to be kidding me. Castro takes those "humanitarian" donations then sells them. Most of the Cubans get money from relatives in the US and buy black market items when they can. Food is rationed. Everything is rationed. Need a prescription? The doctor will tell you to try and get it from a relative in the States. How do I know this? Glad you asked. My wife was on the last legal flight out of Cuba in the 70's. Her mom visits her mother still there in Cuba whenever she can. So she's not going to the tourist areas. She's living it for the time she's there. But don't worry. We'll think that's paradise after the Obama gets done with us.

[seacapt]

Go to Cuba and talk to the locals, .

Goosh , I might be wrong here (never been to Cuba although I was married to a Cubanita ) but from personal experience in several other Latin countries I don't think you were talking to the real locals. There are allways a happy group of locals working around the tourists. In the Central and South American countries I've visited the closest thing to a middle class are hotel workers and hookers.

[Ratmagiclady]

Frankly, it's really about the conservatives needing the highl-conservative and anti-Communist Cuban expats for influence in FLA and elsewhere,and they also need their little 'object lesson in how you don't want anything we can call 'Communist,' and, well, they need Commies to hate on, as we can see here,right? Even if they're pretty irrelevant as such.

There's very little reason for an embargo, at this point, ...right now the Cuba thing is just one more long-neglected issue that the administration could have been working on by now if every darn little thing weren't under filibuster-threat and delay.

Goosh , I might be wrong here (never been to Cuba although I was married to a Cubanita ) but from personal experience in several other Latin countries I don't think you were talking to the real locals. There are allways a happy group of locals working around the tourists. In the Central and South American countries I've visited the closest thing to a middle class are hotel workers and hookers.

The "locals" around the tourist spots do fare a bit better. They get US dollars among other currencies and therefore can usually buy at the black markets so they are a little better off.

[reeftool]

I think it's totally lame to continue the trade embargo with Cuba. For what reason and why? We have no problem trading with every other communist/socialist country in the world. Most of the products in our stores come from China, which is still as totalitarian and repressive as ever. The embargo is about electorial votes in Florida, nothing more.

[Parallax]

I think it's totally lame to continue the trade embargo with Cuba. For what reason and why? We have no problem trading with every other communist/socialist country in the world. Most of the products in our stores come from China, which is still as totalitarian and repressive as ever. The embargo is about electorial votes in Florida, nothing more.

Reeftool, that's how I felt when I started the thread, but after considering what Ira said I'm not so sure. If the money is only going to flow one way, it may not be such a good arrangement.

I think it's totally lame to continue the trade embargo with Cuba. For what reason and why? We have no problem trading with every other communist/socialist country in the world. Most of the products in our stores come from China, which is still as totalitarian and repressive as ever. The embargo is about electorial votes in Florida, nothing more.

The only thing opening up trade with Cuba would do is make Castro richer. There is no such thing as trickle down economics there.

[reeftool]

If I'm not mistaken, somebody always gets rich off trade. Thats why it is done.

Non-stop obstructionism only allows so much to happen, right?

What were the first things the Neocons and corporate media were saying the day Obama took office? 'Hope and change is nonsense' ..Filibuster,' and 'You're doing too much too fast, Obama,' ...while allowing nothing ...nothing.. to get done without filibuster threats and media circuses. Even routine regulatory appointments. Bound up in filibuster threats.

Ain't 'basihing,' Parallax, it's just that our part in the Cuba situation is mostly symbolic, the rest is about property rights, and that politically benefits just one group: Anti-Communist conservatives who need symbolism.

Frankly, I figure Cuba's a pretty logical state of the Uniion for sometime in the next century, probably we could be nearly there already. If not for stuff like that.

Basically like I said about Saddam, people don't think much about how dictatorsplay things for the home audience.... And we could have been *not-the-bad-guys-to-the-Cuban-people* for a long time now, even with Castro still there. People now twenty or thirty could never have really had a personal reason to dislike us....

Instead, this gets dragged out cause of how it plays *here.*

I dunno if it's 'bashing' conservatives to point out that you can stretch a lot of stupid things out, election by election, with your us vs-them-all-or-nothing, win at all costs mentalities.

Our relations with Cuba needn't be so darn hard. Needn't have been. For a long time. But nothing gets done cause what happens whenever anyone raises the issue? Anti-Communist noise and... Nothing.

It's one of those situations where, if not for such political concerns, it probably would have been cheaper to just *buy* the country, start turning a profit, instead of posturing and depriving for decades.

Spoken just like a person who knows nothing about Cuba. Or the people. Or the situation.

[Phil1]

'Go to Cuba and talk to the locals, then tell me what crapola is or not.'

If you do you will probably find that a big percenatge would GTF otta there rather rapidly if they had the means and would not get shot or prison. That comment is laughable considering the many thousands that risked everything including lives to get out. It shows to go yuh how mush heads think.

'I think it's totally lame to continue the trade embargo with Cuba. For what reason and why? We have no problem trading with every other communist/socialist country in the world. Most of the products in our stores come from China, which is still as totalitarian and repressive as ever. The embargo is about electorial votes in Florida, nothing more.'


Hardly. It's about extending normal trade credits to a country with worthless currency. It's about debts owed to US citizens that remain unpaid to this day. It's about the Peoples Socialist Prison Paradise that the mush heads love so much. Cuba can trade with any country. WTF do they need the US? Knowing that, why do they remain such a ship hole? Have a banana.

[Gooshin]

'Go to Cuba and talk to the locals, then tell me what crapola is or not.'

If you do you will probably find that a big percenatge would GTF otta there rather rapidly if they had the means and would not get shot or prison. That comment is laughable considering the many thousands that risked everything including lives to get out. It shows to go yuh how mush heads think.

If i do?

How about if i DID.

When you give a Cuban a ride from one city to another, there is quite a bit of time for chit chat. Either that or i must be meeting some pretty off the wall Cubans :/