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06-15-2010, 10:32 AM   #1
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Presidentail approval ratings

Just for fun..........
Polls can affect president's hold on party - USATODAY.com
Might as well add this since it's "graph day"

http://assets.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/assets_c/2010/06/Bus...x369-28017.jpg


Last edited by jeffkrol; 06-15-2010 at 10:39 AM.
06-15-2010, 10:54 AM   #2
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"is more responsible"

What does Obama have to do with what Bush did?

the question should be: "how well do you think Obama is cleaning up Bush's mess?"

more responsible.. that's not even proper grammar.
06-15-2010, 12:09 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
"is more responsible"
What does Obama have to do with what Bush did?
the question should be: "how well do you think Obama is cleaning up Bush's mess?"
more responsible.. that's not even proper grammar.
"Responsible for" is a prepositional phrase. Many prepositional phrases have evolved through common useage and do not necessarily make logical sense. However, some sense can be made in this case.

Prepositions perform three formal functions in sentences. They act as an adjective modifying a noun, as an adverb modifying a verb, or as a nominal when used in conjunction with the verb form to be.

"Obama is [more] responsible for the problems..." appears to be in fact, a nominal. Back to that in a moment.
In semantic terms, the preposition functions to illustrate a logical, temporal, or spatial relationship between the object of the prepositional phrase and the other components of the sentence.

The object is "the problems...", and the nominal "responsible for" seeks to illustrate the logical relationship between those problems and Obama.

I take it the trouble you have with this is the "more" part. There is an implied piece here. The sentence might really read:
Obama is [more] responsible for the problems... [than is Bush.]

This would make the sentence very much like the following example:

Since modern grammar is more concerned with the way words function in a sentence than with part-of-speech designations in a dictionary, it's a little different from the conventional understanding of noun, but it's very close.

You could extract the sentence "Modern grammar is more concerned with the way words function in a sentence." without doing any violence whatsoever to the meaning encapsulated therein.

Now, unless you subscribe to the notion that there cannot be varying degrees of responsibility, and that responsibility itself is either absolute or null, then I am pretty certain that the use of "more" to modify the prepositional phrase "responsible for" is simply a way of modifying the prepositional phrase to assign the relative degree of logical relationship... ie: more or less.

But don't take my word for it...

Nonpredicative (or nominal) prepositional modifiers behave like adjectives while predicative prepositional modifiers behave like adverbs.

So our prepositional phrase here should equate to an adjective. That said, there are multiple ways to use the word "more."

I think the governing definition is of more as an adverb, which is:

"In or to a greater degree or extent: used with many adjectives and adverbs (regularly with those of three or more syllables) to form the comparative degree: more satisfying, more intensely."

In short, I cannot find any reason to say that the usage here is grammatically incorrect.

Rather, I would say that in some ways, the sentence is poorly constructed as it assumes certain things. On the other hand, this sentence is used in a manner that splits a single sentence into two in order to cater to the special needs of answering one of the other, as in a choice.

The single sentence would be:

Obama is [more] responsible for the problems... [than is Bush.]

Breaking it apart is a simple expedient that serves the format of the device, ie: a poll.

So what.

woof!
06-15-2010, 12:14 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
"is more responsible"

What does Obama have to do with what Bush did?

the question should be: "how well do you think Obama is cleaning up Bush's mess?"

more responsible.. that's not even proper grammar.

If we survive cleaning up Bush's messes, we'll be glad to work on his grammar. Nyuck, nyuck.

06-15-2010, 12:55 PM   #5
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Most people, when not blinded by ideology, would agree that Obama is a more responsible president than Bush was. The discussion is about how irresponsible Bush may have been (with the collusion of the congress) to create the financial etc. mess we are in now.

The whole thing equates to "less filling, tastes great!"
06-15-2010, 03:25 PM   #6
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Looking at the page you linked Jeff the first graph there shows the approval rating of presidents. Seems the H.W and W were top of the list. 90% approval rating. Sorry. your link not mine.
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06-15-2010, 03:26 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
Most people, when not blinded by ideology, would agree that Obama is a more responsible president than Bush was. The discussion is about how irresponsible Bush may have been (with the collusion of the congress) to create the financial etc. mess we are in now.

The whole thing equates to "less filling, tastes great!"
He's definitely more responsible.


For flushing the toilet on us.

06-15-2010, 04:40 PM   #8
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Maybe we need someone to blow up big giant building to spike Obamas ratings... For Bush, they dropped pretty fast after that little "incident" when we all went "Ra , ra ra sis boom ba"........ Without it he was rapidly heading south of the border......
Reminds me of when Dorothy dropped the house on the wicked witch of the east... spiked her popularity......

Last edited by jeffkrol; 06-15-2010 at 05:10 PM.
06-16-2010, 07:20 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Maybe we need someone to blow up big giant building to spike Obamas ratings... For Bush, they dropped pretty fast after that little "incident" when we all went "Ra , ra ra sis boom ba"........ Without it he was rapidly heading south of the border......
Reminds me of when Dorothy dropped the house on the wicked witch of the east... spiked her popularity......
Only if it's in Wisconsin
06-16-2010, 07:26 AM   #10
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GW ended up in Nixon territory after the big spike... what's interesting is Truman, who I think is generally thought of as a good prez, manages to hold the record in the chart above.
06-16-2010, 08:43 AM   #11
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The thing I find interesting about the graph is that Reagan and Clinton are the only two Presidents that leave office at or above the point that they came into office for popularity. Weird that both were basically moderate presidents.
06-16-2010, 06:40 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by gokenin Quote
The thing I find interesting about the graph is that Reagan and Clinton are the only two Presidents that leave office at or above the point that they came into office for popularity. Weird that both were basically moderate presidents.
Reagan was moderate?
06-17-2010, 04:53 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by gokenin Quote
The thing I find interesting about the graph is that Reagan and Clinton are the only two Presidents that leave office at or above the point that they came into office for popularity. Weird that both were basically moderate presidents.
Clinton was a moderate? I guess everything is relative. Clinton could be considered moderate when compared to Marx, Castro, or Obama.
06-17-2010, 06:17 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Clinton was a moderate? I guess everything is relative. Clinton could be considered moderate when compared to Marx, Castro, or Obama.
Clinton had no choice but to become more centrist. After all in 96 he wouldn't have gotten anything. Something happened in congress. And let's not forget Slick was all about the polls.
06-17-2010, 06:47 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Clinton was a moderate? I guess everything is relative. Clinton could be considered moderate when compared to Marx, Castro, or Obama.
On what issues was Clinton liberal? I've seen issue by issue comparisons that have Clinton coming out more conservative than Nixon. Welfare reform, actually cutting the size of government, NAFTA, deregulation of banks, and on and on are Republican canards that were enacted with Clinton's support. The only truly significant liberal thing he ever tried was health care reform, and he backed off of it and never came back.

Personally, I don't think Bill Clinton had a firm ideology other than to get re-elected.
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