[GeneV]

This particular type of danger is preventable. This wasn't a case of unforeseen event (hurricane, etc), or a geological anomaly that couldn't be detected. It was caused by deliberate corner-cutting.
There are two problems there. One is there will always be people trying to get around the system; and two, it is especially easy to do with this particular system because as far as oversight is concerned, we put the fox in charge of the hen house.

I agree with most of that post,except as to the extent that the first sentence matters. Corners will be cut as long as humans operate these machines. Even if there is no hurricane and no corner cut, you are dealing with something happening miles under water and then miles underground. All of the testing results in highly educated guesses about what they are dealing with, but there is a huge room for uncertainties. It is like saying that doctors can prevent every patient from dying during surgery if they just do their job right. That is simply not true with our current understanding of the complexities involved.

[Parallax]

I conceded that corners will cut, but I think that if we actually started putting people in jail who actually cut them, or directly order them to be cut, and financially ruining those that suffer and encourage the practice, it would substantially reduce the risk.

[Oldschool]

One of the issues is that there are many small companies that don't have the financial resouces that BP has. If there is another disaster (and there will be) by one of these smaller companies, state, local, and federal government will be required to pay for any cleanup and loss of income.

In fact, there is a loud minority right now that is claiming that the president was wrong to pressure BP to put up money in an escrow fund. If a company is willing to risk our environment to drill, they have to pay for the right. This could be in the form of taxes which we pay directly, increased fees for drilling rights (which we pay for indirectly), or pay for increased safety regulations (which again we pay for indirectly). This will enable us to see the true cost of offshore oil drilling. We can pay now or we can pay later, but we will definitely pay.

[jeffkrol]

I conceded that corners will cut, but I think that if we actually started putting people in jail who actually cut them, or directly order them to be cut, and financially ruining those that suffer and encourage the practice, it would substantially reduce the risk.

Gas surge shut well a couple of weeks before Gulf oil spill | NOLA.com

"In order for a disaster of this magnitude to happen, more than one thing has to go wrong, or fail. First, a shitty cement job. The wellhead packoff/seal assembly (the equipment directly below the blowout preventer that connects the lower pipe casing to the preventer) while designed to hold the pressure, is just a backup. And finally, the ability to close the well in with the BOP somehow went away," the witness said.

Think Progress E-mail from BP engineer called Deepwater Horizon rig a ?nightmare well? six days before explosion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/15/science/earth/15rig.html

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Last edited by jeffkrol; 06-17-2010 at 12:38 PM.

This brings up another question. If OBO is going to make sure Bungled Petroleum is going to pay the entire cost; why is a higher tax needed?

So they can "borrow" against it to balance the budget.

---------- Post added 06-17-2010 at 02:49 PM ----------

One of the issues is that there are many small companies that don't have the financial resouces that BP has. If there is another disaster (and there will be) by one of these smaller companies, state, local, and federal government will be required to pay for any cleanup and loss of income.

In fact, there is a loud minority right now that is claiming that the president was wrong to pressure BP to put up money in an escrow fund. If a company is willing to risk our environment to drill, they have to pay for the right. This could be in the form of taxes which we pay directly, increased fees for drilling rights (which we pay for indirectly), or pay for increased safety regulations (which again we pay for indirectly). This will enable us to see the true cost of offshore oil drilling. We can pay now or we can pay later, but we will definitely pay.

How about making the companies put up a surety bond?

[Oldschool]

How about making the companies put up a surety bond?

That's the same effect as increased drilling fees or paying for safety regulations. It costs money and will be reflected in the price of oil.

[subeeds]

The blame for this goes back for several administrations and both political parties.http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965?RS_show_page=0
I read this and did a slow burn over how long this negligence has been allowed to go on.
As for BP putting a ton of money in an escrow account-I sure hope that is enforced. At least that way, they can't move the money someplace it can't be found and allowed to scream 'we're broke now", leaving the tax payers to pick up another bill. I also think criminal charges should be brought. People died because of the shortcuts they took and the Gulf is in the process of dying. It seems to me that the first concern is getting that oil shut off, there will be plenty of time for pointing fingers after that is done.

[GeneV]

So they can "borrow" against it to balance the budget.

---------- Post added 06-17-2010 at 02:49 PM ----------



How about making the companies put up a surety bond?

A good idea, especially if the amount is realistic. That is basically what I was getting at by reflecting the cost.

---------- Post added 06-17-2010 at 02:27 PM ----------

I conceded that corners will cut, but I think that if we actually started putting people in jail who actually cut them, or directly order them to be cut, and financially ruining those that suffer and encourage the practice, it would substantially reduce the risk.

You would think so, but there are plenty of Wall Street execs who have done some jail time, but the problems just seem to get worse.

I conceded that corners will cut, but I think that if we actually started putting people in jail who actually cut them, or directly order them to be cut, and financially ruining those that suffer and encourage the practice, it would substantially reduce the risk.

But I thought the Obaminator was bringing change. Change we can believe in.

[Parallax]

But I thought the Obaminator was bringing change. Change we can believe in.

Yes, he promised change; change we can believe in. In his defense, he never said that the change would be for the better; and things certainly have changed.

Yes, he promised change; change we can believe in. In his defense, he never said that the change would be for the better; and things certainly have changed.

But do you believe in it?

[reeftool]

This brings up another question. If OBO is going to make sure Bungled Petroleum is going to pay the entire cost; why is a higher tax needed?

Well, we all know that BP isn't going to pay 100% for everything. This is going to cause problems for years to come. Whether or not higher taxes are needed is debatable but the general trend by lawmakers to generate revenue is to raise taxes and fees. A few cents per gallon will generate a huge amount of money that could be put into fund for cleanup for this accident and future ones. While it all sounds good, the money will be used for something else because there is nothing a congressman hates more than having money sit around earning interest.

As for future costs, will BP be still be paying commercial fishermen in the gulf if the fishing is bad 10 years from now? We all know that won't be happening. BP will file bankruptcy long before that. That 20 billion will get eaten up and at some point, they will want out.

Well, we all know that BP isn't going to pay 100% for everything. This is going to cause problems for years to come. Whether or not higher taxes are needed is debatable but the general trend by lawmakers to generate revenue is to raise taxes and fees. A few cents per gallon will generate a huge amount of money that could be put into fund for cleanup for this accident and future ones. While it all sounds good, the money will be used for something else because there is nothing a congressman hates more than having money sit around earning interest.

As for future costs, will BP be still be paying commercial fishermen in the gulf if the fishing is bad 10 years from now? We all know that won't be happening. BP will file bankruptcy long before that. That 20 billion will get wasted on everything but cleanup and borrowed against so much and at some point, they will want out.

I corrected your last paragraph for you. No thanks needed.

[GeneV]

Perhaps this belongs in the political joke thread, but this site is a riot Joe Barton Would LikeTo Apologize

Just about the only ridiculous thing the Republicans could have done to take the heat off Obama for this spill would be to apologize to BP for asking them to pay for the spill, and a ranking republican bonehead did it.

[Parallax]

The REAL irony here is Joe Biden, of all people, chastising someone else for sticking his foot in his mouth.