[gokenin]

We sit here on our computers and wonder why nothing changes? Why does government not work? Why can we not make things better? Will there be a future on this planet?
I ask you if you need answers simply look at our little slice of heaven here in the politcs and religious DISCUSSION forums for an answer. I say NO there is no future this can be seen by the fact that the two politcal parties in America act like the posters here they are so wrapped up in there own lilttle politcal views of the world they are unwilling to listen. The system has gotten to the point that if you are a Democrat you hate the Republican and vice verso before the other person has even had a chance to talk. America no longer believes in civil discourse between people instead we wrap ourselves in out ideas and beliefs and yell at each other that you are wrong and I am right.
The left blame everything on Bush/Cheney neglecting the history that lead to the this presidency and the fact that there was no dictatorship during the time no matter how much they want to think there was. The Democrats had a say in everything that happened during his presidency. The right and the teaparty currently look at Obama and blame him for all this wrong with the world. I dont agree with this either he is attempting to make right a whole series of wrong perpertrated by both Republican and Democratic politicans for decades. I do however have issue with the speed at which he is trying to fix everything sometimes faster is not always better.
I know many will ignore this post as simply something from a whinning Republican but if you do that its you that are narrow minded and there will be Republicans that will call me a RHINO again to them i say you are narrow minded. I have always tried to understand and talk to people here and have tried to express my ideas and beliefs to them. I hope that I may be able to actually make someone stop and think for a second or two but I know thats a long shot. I have actually read what many post here and I will admit some of it has made me think but lots of it is simply hate speach from one party to the other.

I apologize from the length of the post but I just think that we need to remember that this is a DISCUSSION forum not simply a soapbox.

Jon Merrill

[causey]

The same in the other countries. America is no exception. A massified society doesn't know how to listen. Humanity, one big noise. All the more reason to live and be happy--others might learn from your lightness of heart.

But... "if you do that its you that are narrow minded"...??? Is this meant to support the general intention of your post? Is it preventive or productive of more noise?

[subeeds]

People should remember that we all members of the human race. Decisions should be made based on that.

Yeah- like that will ever happen. "snort"

People should remember that we all members of the human race. Decisions should be made based on that.

Yeah- like that will ever happen. "snort"

Then why do they call it a rat race? Moving at a snail's pace? If we're all part of the human race?

[Bramela]

I have to agree. We, here down under, are in the same circumstance. Politics here is in a circus like state.
One side says it is black, the other automatically retorts it is white.

We had a Prime Minister, who, I believe, was trying to get back to the "good for the country and its people" ideology. He steered out of the GFC in brilliant fashion.
He was thrown out a week ago.
I believe multi nations and "big business" are trying the damnedest to (and maybe succeeding) control all the purse strings to ensure that all the "good money" is going to all the "right places"

Our Western Society, throughout, is in the grip of greed and that the current trend cannot continue without a major fall. Even greater than the recent GFC.

Very well put Gokenin, I totally agree with your sentiments.

We sit here on our computers and wonder why nothing changes? Why does government not work? Why can we not make things better? Will there be a future on this planet?
I ask you if you need answers simply look at our little slice of heaven here in the politics and religious DISCUSSION forums for an answer. I say NO there is no future this can be seen by the fact that the two political parties in America act like the posters here they are so wrapped up in there own little political views of the world they are unwilling to listen. The system has gotten to the point that if you are a Democrat you hate the Republican and vice verso before the other person has even had a chance to talk. America no longer believes in civil discourse between people instead we wrap ourselves in out ideas and beliefs and yell at each other that you are wrong and I am right.
The left blame everything on Bush/Cheney neglecting the history that lead to the this presidency and the fact that there was no dictatorship during the time no matter how much they want to think there was. The Democrats had a say in everything that happened during his presidency. The right and the teaparty currently look at Obama and blame him for all this wrong with the world. I dont agree with this either he is attempting to make right a whole series of wrong perpetrated by both Republican and Democratic politicans for decades. I do however have issue with the speed at which he is trying to fix everything sometimes faster is not always better.
I know many will ignore this post as simply something from a whining Republican but if you do that its you that are narrow minded and there will be Republicans that will call me a RHINO again to them i say you are narrow minded. I have always tried to understand and talk to people here and have tried to express my ideas and beliefs to them. I hope that I may be able to actually make someone stop and think for a second or two but I know thats a long shot. I have actually read what many post here and I will admit some of it has made me think but lots of it is simply hate speach from one party to the other.

I apologize from the length of the post but I just think that we need to remember that this is a DISCUSSION forum not simply a soapbox.

Jon Merrill

Well put actually. And this is one conservative that wouldn't call you a RINO. It I did then I would have to label myself the same. As I've said in other threads this problem we have didn't manifest itself overnight. And it wasn't just one side that did it either. And one side won't cure it. This mess has come about because you have lawmakers who's only concern is their legacy and their wallet. And not necessarily in that order.

[Nesster]

Yes, very well put.

One thing I suggest is that the belief that government is broken, always will be broken, is perhaps not the best attitude, as it breeds apathy and anger. The glass can be half full: at some times, in some situations, government actually does good despite itself, and can be made to do more of that, as long as we aren't apathetic consumers. One may say that government is perpetually broken and perpetually re-negotiated, especially in the US system, but I think elsewhere as well. A broken government therefore is nothing new and hasn't stopped earlier generations from addressing the issues of their times - these are the eras we now celebrate and study. The eras where nothing much was done by political hack governments are not the times we celebrate.

Another thing, adding to Bramela's point: perhaps a docile, politically inert, population is exactly what the multinationals like to see. Therefore it is in their best interest to also convince us that government action is bad (except in limited cases) and that we should just go along with how things are going.

[seacapt]

perhaps a docile, politically inert, population is exactly what the multinationals like to see. Therefore it is in their best interest to also convince us that government action is bad (except in limited cases) and that we should just go along with how things are going.

Ignorance , appathy and tollerance of corruption have been the demise of societies since the fall of Rome.

[JHD]

As an outsider from a foreign country, I've always thought it was amusing how Americans can be so absolute in their polarization around one of two political parties no matter how wacky or insanely incompetent the leader or potential leader.

FOX started the edgy opinionated news business. It alone is has done more damage to America then anything else. It is the scourge and undoing of America. It takes advantage of the dimwit mentallity by abusing free speech for the sole purpose dividing America. I remember a time when America was strong and united, but that will never be again. America is well on it's way to self destruction.

[SpecialK]

We sit here on our computers and wonder why nothing changes? Why does government not work? Why can we not make things better? Will there be a future on this planet?
I ask you if you need answers simply look at our little slice of heaven here in the politcs and religious DISCUSSION forums for an answer. I say NO there is no future this can be seen by the fact that the two politcal parties in America act like the posters here they are so wrapped up in there own lilttle politcal views of the world they are unwilling to listen. The system has gotten to the point that if you are a Democrat you hate the Republican and vice verso before the other person has even had a chance to talk. America no longer believes in civil discourse between people instead we wrap ourselves in out ideas and beliefs and yell at each other that you are wrong and I am right.
The left blame everything on Bush/Cheney neglecting the history that lead to the this presidency and the fact that there was no dictatorship during the time no matter how much they want to think there was. The Democrats had a say in everything that happened during his presidency. The right and the teaparty currently look at Obama and blame him for all this wrong with the world. I dont agree with this either he is attempting to make right a whole series of wrong perpertrated by both Republican and Democratic politicans for decades. I do however have issue with the speed at which he is trying to fix everything sometimes faster is not always better.
I know many will ignore this post as simply something from a whinning Republican but if you do that its you that are narrow minded and there will be Republicans that will call me a RHINO again to them i say you are narrow minded. I have always tried to understand and talk to people here and have tried to express my ideas and beliefs to them. I hope that I may be able to actually make someone stop and think for a second or two but I know thats a long shot. I have actually read what many post here and I will admit some of it has made me think but lots of it is simply hate speach from one party to the other.

I apologize from the length of the post but I just think that we need to remember that this is a DISCUSSION forum not simply a soapbox.

Jon Merrill

I ignore this entire subforum and (sorry) most the people in it for all reasons you list, but this was a good and rational post.

And all the "God bless" stuff makes me roll my eyes, but that discussion has been done to death elsewhere by others.

I'm out. Cheers.

[GeneV]

We sit here on our computers and wonder why nothing changes? Why does government not work? Why can we not make things better? Will there be a future on this planet?
I ask you if you need answers simply look at our little slice of heaven here in the politcs and religious DISCUSSION forums for an answer. I say NO there is no future this can be seen by the fact that the two politcal parties in America act like the posters here they are so wrapped up in there own lilttle politcal views of the world they are unwilling to listen. The system has gotten to the point that if you are a Democrat you hate the Republican and vice verso before the other person has even had a chance to talk. America no longer believes in civil discourse between people instead we wrap ourselves in out ideas and beliefs and yell at each other that you are wrong and I am right.
The left blame everything on Bush/Cheney neglecting the history that lead to the this presidency and the fact that there was no dictatorship during the time no matter how much they want to think there was. The Democrats had a say in everything that happened during his presidency. The right and the teaparty currently look at Obama and blame him for all this wrong with the world. I dont agree with this either he is attempting to make right a whole series of wrong perpertrated by both Republican and Democratic politicans for decades. I do however have issue with the speed at which he is trying to fix everything sometimes faster is not always better.
I know many will ignore this post as simply something from a whinning Republican but if you do that its you that are narrow minded and there will be Republicans that will call me a RHINO again to them i say you are narrow minded. I have always tried to understand and talk to people here and have tried to express my ideas and beliefs to them. I hope that I may be able to actually make someone stop and think for a second or two but I know thats a long shot. I have actually read what many post here and I will admit some of it has made me think but lots of it is simply hate speach from one party to the other.

I apologize from the length of the post but I just think that we need to remember that this is a DISCUSSION forum not simply a soapbox.

Jon Merrill

I started a few "let's get along" threads a few months ago, so I certainly don't disagree with the general sentiment. It was interesting to see how these agreeable threads start and how they end.

Part of the problem is the two party system. It divides the world into only two points of view and two teams. If your team does not hold together, you lose; thus there is always a pressure to support your team and demonize the other no matter how ridiculous. There is little payoff for compromise or cooperation.

[Nesster]

Now that I'm thinking of this, there are two further benefits of participating here:
1) new respect for politicians and other public figures, for their thick skin (I'm presuming these people aren't sociopathically immune)
2) I've become more interested in current events and have had to do more reading in order to keep up with what goes on here.

We do sound like a parrot fight sometimes

As an outsider from a foreign country, I've always thought it was amusing how Americans can be so absolute in their polarization around one of two political parties no matter how wacky or insanely incompetent the leader or potential leader.

FOX started the edgy opinionated news business. It alone is has done more damage to America then anything else. It is the scourge and undoing of America. It takes advantage of the dimwit mentallity by abusing free speech for the sole purpose dividing America. I remember a time when America was strong and united, but that will never be again. America is well on it's way to self destruction.

Fox started it? Give me a break. CNN PMSNBC and all the other liberally biased media has the key on that. And they've been around a lot longer than Fox. Fox just brought about the other side of the coin.

[GeneV]

Fox started it? Give me a break. CNN PMSNBC and all the other liberally biased media has the key on that. And they've been around a lot longer than Fox. Fox just brought about the other side of the coin.

And away we go!

[Ratmagiclady]

Fox started it? Give me a break. CNN PMSNBC and all the other liberally biased media has the key on that. And they've been around a lot longer than Fox. Fox just brought about the other side of the coin.

Deregulated corporate media asking "Are we the librul biased media?" with a chorus of right-wing pundits saying 'Yes!' for lots of years doesn't a 'liberal media establishment' make.

Adding Fox News to be unabashedly a propaganda arm of the GOP and Right in general, while harping on the Orwellian insistence it is 'Fair And Balanced' (and being caught in distortion after distortion, even making its own 'Tea Party Express' *astroturf political movement*) Well, that doesn't mean everything's really been a 'liberal biased media' just cause conservatives say so whenever the facts or analyses don't suit them, which is often.

The general brawl about identity politics that everything's become is how the GOP stays relevant despite bringing us to near-disaster and being out of new 'solutions.' They've been voting as a bloc, party first, since the Clinton administration, .and strife amid the populace suits them, because it divides the opposition and takes headlines more toward issues they like, and away from things that take attention and thought.

The process of this has been going on since the 80's, with the removal of the civic responsibilities of news networks to pay the rent on the public's airwaves by keeping us informed. Started with the mergers and the sensationalistic 'newsmagazines' and the news-having-to-make-a-profit.

I've gone into that before.

Not like we didn't try to warn you decades ago, ...and here it is.

Much of the adversarial tone has built up from these media organs redefining where the 'center' is, ....for a long time claiming moderate-leaning-conservative was 'liberal,' and now moderate-leaning conservative is 'The Left,' ....and what's been redefined as 'conservative' is actually more of a right-wing corporate-serving-state situation.

A lot of this showed in recent elections, when if you took away the buzzwords and talking-point phrasings and polled people on the issues, a lot of people who consider themselves fairly conservative actually supported the 'liberal' position.

Currently, we're facing a lot of disaffection on both sides: the half of the country that voted Democrat having been once again very disappointed that the Democrats didn't get up and fight once it was clear the GOP had no real interest in cooperating, but instead decided to rewite the rules and say, 'Now every single little thing down to a regulatory appointment has to be filibuster-proof.'

While the Dems pretty much have defaulted to more or less 'business as usual.'

Very frustrating.

I, for one, am not too optimistic over the near term. If the terrible results of the poor management we'd been under that we've already seen weren't enough, I don't know what is.

The country's averted the worst of the catastrophe, but we've been prevented from taking too much in the way of pro-active steps toward really fixing the problems. Everything's been watered down to perhaps-decent, but I-think-inadequate, measures, and with the Supreme Court ruling that says corporations can spend unlimited money on elections, I don't necessarily expect big improvement, at least not in places such as I am now.

Calls for civility are all very good, and I echo them. Of course, with the way the corporate media induces a really short memory in people, I don't necessarily expect much at this point.

Pretty sad, really. I can only hope that the people will actually call on the President to *lead* us, ...this is why I voted for him, but we really have to hold up our end. We're too big and still-relatively-prosperous a nation to be wallowing in the 'No, we can't' we keep hearing, as if what'd been the status quo was something that we can really go back to.