[subeeds]

I'm confused. A naturalized citizen Can vote, I dont think I said otherwise. I am a Natural born U.S. 2nd class citizen and I cannot vote, although we can participate in the primaries. Obama came here during the primaries to get our votes, but once he won the candidacy he had no reason to come back.

I'm the one confused. The fact that you are considered a U.S. citizen and can't vote is what threw me. I had no idea. That's outrageous!!! (FYI, it took Native Americans longer to get the right to vote than it did women.)

[FlashCube]

I'm the one confused. The fact that you are considered a U.S. citizen and can't vote is what threw me. I had no idea. That's outrageous!!! (FYI, it took Native Americans longer to get the right to vote than it did women.)

No, its not outrageous. It is the result of being a Territory and not a state. It was no different for Alaska and Hawaii until they became the 49th and 50th star on Old Glory. I don't have a problem with PR becoming a state since they essentially get the benefits of it anyway except for voting in the Presidential election and sending 2 Senators to D.C.

---------- Post added 07-06-10 at 10:30 PM ----------

To the original post:

The reason that was written into the Constitution by the drafters (i.e. James Madison, et al.) was to prevent subversion and a take over by a foreign national becoming a citizen, getting elected President. Just imagine what would have happened during the War of 1812 had a Brit been elected President instead of James Madison. It could have been a potential surrender monkey situation especially following the burning of D.C. Also consider the "Cold War" situation with "sleeper" agents. Also, historically Europe had many situations where related people sat on various thrones creating conflicts of interests and this was also something the authors of the U.S. Constitution were trying to avoid. There is a lot of information that can be gleaned from The Federalist Papers etc regarding this kind of thing. James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Sam Adams, John Hancock etc. did not trust government.

Edit: In other words it was a Safe-Guard on national security and minimizing conflicts of interest.

[SpecialK]

Why does the American President have to be born in the USA ?

So we think he's really one of us.

Arnold Schwarzenegger would like to run for the US Presidency, but he can't because the criteria indicates any candidate for the Presidency must be American born.

And also because he failed miserably as governor.

[Nesster]

I'm pissed? I dont care about voting for the president, its not like the popular vote does anything. I was just stating how hypocritical it is for the US to make us fight in their army but not even vote for the president. Country of the free my ass.

I would think that if PR had electoral college votes, the Bush-Gore election would have avoided the Florida disaster, one way or another. PR would have put one of them over the top.

---

John Dean writes a good summary of the natural born issue:

FindLaw's Writ - Dean: The Pernicious "Natural Born" Clause of the Constitution

There's an interesting loophole:

The Acting President Problem: Far More Than a Hypothetical

There is nothing hypothetical about this question: It has come up repeatedly during the last half century.

The succession statute, first adopted in 1947, turns first to the Speaker of the House, and then the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, in the event of a vacancy of both offices of the president and vice president. Only after this, does it turn to turning to the president's cabinet - with the Secretary of State topping the list. That is known to raise some fundamental constitutional questions - for a member of Congress is not an "officer" under the Constitution.

...

But one less-remarked problem with the succession statute is that several times, Secretaries of State have turned out to be foreign-born. President Eisenhower's Secretary of State Christian Herter was born in Paris; his parents were Americans, however. Given Eisenhower's bad heart, many "what ifs" were raised and examined about Secretary Herter's status to sever as acting president, if necessary. However, as noted above, given Herter's American parents, contemporary consensus would hold that someone in his position could indeed be President, acting or otherwise.

President Ford's Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, was born in Germany, and he came to this country in 1938 at age 15. Similarly, President Clinton's Secretary of State, Madeline Albright, was born in Prague, Czechoslovakia, arriving in the United States in 1948 at age 11. Both are naturalized citizens - ineligible to be President, but would they be eligible to be acting President under the succession statute? That is the interesting question.

Fortunately, none of these Secretaries of State was ever called upon to serve as "acting president." Thus, the question of their authority to serve, under the succession statute, was never tested.

[Ira]

Freedom is relative, but I would argue that the U.S.A. is a lot freer than most places.

---------- Post added 07-07-10 at 05:07 AM ----------

I would think that if PR had electoral college votes, the Bush-Gore election would have avoided the Florida disaster, one way or another. PR would have put one of them over the top.

---

John Dean writes a good summary of the natural born issue:

FindLaw's Writ - Dean: The Pernicious "Natural Born" Clause of the Constitution

There's an interesting loophole:

The Secretary of State can't act as President if the President is incapacitated. That was Haig's (spelling?) big blunder.

[johnmflores]

There was a Doctor Who episode where an alien rose to become Prime Minister and then steered the country to the benefit of his alien race.

That's what the natural born citizen rule is trying to avoid, because we don't have Doctor Who to save us.

[Nesster]

However, the rule would not avoid The Manchurian Candidate
The Manchurian Candidate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[reeftool]

To put it simply, our constitution makes it so. One can argue the reasons our founding fathers considered it important. I would say that it is less likely that there would be mixed loyalties in the decision making process. No guarantee that won't happen anyhow.

[Parallax]

Freedom is relative, but I would argue that the U.S.A. is a lot freer than most places.

---------- Post added 07-07-10 at 05:07 AM ----------



The Secretary of State can't act as President if the President is incapacitated. That was Haig's (spelling?) big blunder.

Yeah, didn't he say something like "I'm in control here"?

[Nesster]

Reagan assassination attempt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the same time, a press conference was underway in the White House. CBS reporter Lesley Stahl asked deputy press secretary Larry Speakes who was running the government, to which Speakes responded, "I cannot answer that question at this time." Upon hearing Speakes' remark, Haig scribbled out a note which was passed to Speakes, ordering him to leave the dais immediately. Moments later, Haig himself entered the briefing room, where he made the following controversial statement:

Constitutionally, gentlemen, you have the president, the vice president and the secretary of state, in that order, and should the president decide he wants to transfer the helm to the vice president, he will do so. As of now, I am in control here, in the White House, pending the return of the vice president and in close touch with him. If something came up, I would check with him, of course.[24]

[GeneV]

I would think that if PR had electoral college votes, the Bush-Gore election would have avoided the Florida disaster, one way or another. PR would have put one of them over the top.

A fascinating "what if?" If Bush had won PR, but not Florida, he is nowhere near Gore. The state of PR would have no more than 7-8 electoral votes which is not nearly enough to make up for losing 25 in Florida.

On the other hand, if Gore won PR, and not Florida, then the calculation could be quite complex and close. If PR became a state, then most of its electors would have to come from other states, unless the House of Representatives were expanded from the 435 set in 1912 and permanently capped in 1929. (There was no long-term expansion for Alaska and Hawaii) It is therefore likely that some of Gore's votes from PR would come at the expense of his votes elsewhere. The result would depend upon which states were barely holding on to an additional representative.

[GatorPentax]

Hey don't bash the free-ness of the USA. Is canada more free? NOPE, any country in S America? thats laughable.

There is a reason why most people in the world try to immigrate to USA, for the freedom!

Back to the original topic, I personally wouldnt trust a foreign born president either. I'm not saying immigrant presidents would be all bad and that all US born are good but there is a conflict of interest. For example, if 2 countries go to war; who would the president be most concerned about?

[GeneV]

How could a president born in Panama such as John McCain be "natural born?"

If McCain is natural born, could a president be born in Puerto Rico, Guam or Samoa? How about an embassy?

This terminology is really a bit silly, in a lot of ways.

[Nesster]

Silly, 'natural born' obviously is meant to exclude c-sections and artificial inseminations

[GeneV]

Silly, 'natural born' obviously is meant to exclude c-sections and artificial inseminations

Or demon spawn.

Or on the other hand, would the product of a virgin birth be "natural born?"