[GeneV]

You can't say "War on Terror" anymore. Don't you know that. And terrorism is a "Man made disaster".

Just call me on "V-T" day, and I'll call this a "war" on "terrorism."

[Rico]

Just like the Democrats you were criticizing in the post to which I was responding.

House Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Reid have never supported the troops in their efforts in Iraq or Afghanistan. They did every thing in their positions of power to sabotage the funding and efforts of the troops including routinely declaring their efforts as un-winnable.

In the summer of 2008 House Speaker Pelosi was asked about the success of the surge in Iraq how the violence had been drastically reduced. Here response was the success in Iraq is do to the good will of the Iranians. That is were the allegiance of the House Speaker is found not with the troops but the Iranians.

[szurinaga]

Will no one here acknowledge the gross amount of Middle eastern citizens who have been innocently killed during these wars? Must we always think about USA USA USA? Soldiers know what they were getting into when they joined the army, I care more about the people who got caught in the crossfire

[GatorPentax]

You can't say "War on Terror" anymore. Don't you know that. And terrorism is a "Man made disaster".

If I didn't know better, I'd find a way to online smack you...but i do know better and I know you're being sarcastic.

The GOP is committed to the troops and the bigger mission. There reaction to Steele are as politicians. They are saying what they think they need to say to protect themselves.

The facts still remain the same. In a year and half President Obama has doubled the amount of service people killed in Afghanistan since the start of the conflict.

This could be because Obama decided to "only" approve 30k more troops instead of the asked for amount. Why he decided 30k was the cut-off point, I have no idea. Probably a politcal move, appease the conservatives a small bit while at the same time not losing his liberal base.

[jeffkrol]

Please elaborate, I'm eager to hear why we won't end up with a similar ending

For one we went in on the side of an Imperialist overseer (As soon as we aligned w/ the French colonists we were done for). Ho Chi Mnh wanted an independent country and wrote his own "Declaration of Independence" so again wee were screwed.
Failing to convince the US to support Vietnamese independence, but wanting a "free country" he turned to China. A partner that was not historically friendly to Vietnam.
Third instead of freeing the whole country most of the time we were just "holding the line" which was frustrating..........
Psychologically we were on the wrong side and it showed.
Then there's the support because of the "dominoe theory". Another error.
No, none of the groundwork has many similarities as far as I'm concerned.
Now that doesn't mean it won't end the same way BUT Afganistan will not become a solidified country as in Vietnam because the Taliban aren't "freedom fighters" as were the NVA. More like terrorists.
We have a chance there (slim) for "hearts and minds" whereas in Vietnam there was no chance short of an imperialist conquest of the entire country.
In Afganistan the imperialist conquest will not work even if they truely hate "the other side" ie Taliban............
Though this article has some errors it has a good slant:

The Taliban and related groups are tough, tenacious foes but they are hardly invincible. Their Achilles heel is lack of popular support. An International Republican Institute poll of 2,400 Afghans in July found that only 19% have a favorable view of the Taliban compared to 62% who have a positive impression of the U.S. and 82% who view the Afghan National Army favorably. A poll taken earlier this year by the BBC and ABC found that only 4% of Afghans want the Taliban to return to power. U.S. forces are not going to replay the experience of the Red Army—popular legitimacy is on our side in a way that it never was for the Russians, despite doubts that are emerging about the integrity of the presidential election. The only reason the Taliban have made gains is because of a governance and security vacuum that they have filled with fear and intimidation.

Max Boot: How to Win in Afghanistan - WSJ.com
The timetable is a bad idea only because the Taliban do not understand it's fake....... and only for the american public. They will find out soon enough.
Interesting story...................

Afghan field of bombs yields help for US troops

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jpvZD4Jwm88AnNaH5ddz1aFd0bZAD9GQ64EG1
Actually in order to win this war we need to stop thinking like Americans...............

[Rico]

Im glad we agree on something Jeff

Rico: Obama has not even been president for 2 years and he is being criticized for not ending it already? I dont care much for Obama, but obviously Bush has had 4x longer time in office and he never even had an exit strategy. Maybe congress isnt saying anything right now during Obamas adminstration, but when Bush was president and Congress was majority republicans they werent saying anything either. This is what I'm saying, both sides do the same things but they some how find a reason to blame each other.

Forget about American Casualities, there have been tens of thousands of Afghani citizens killed as a result of this war. How can you even compare the numbers?

Sorry dude you are pathetic. Forget about American casualties? No (insert your own expletive here to describe szurinaga) we don't forget American casualties.

There is no proof what so ever to say coalition troops have caused tens of thousands of Afghani citizens to be killed. Just as there is no proof to make such a claim in Iraq. There is tons of proof that the Taliban kill civillians at will including hanging a seven year old boy recently for being a traitor. Similar thing in Iraq tons of evidence of Iraqi on Iraqi killing. Arab on Iraqi killing. Blind eyes turned on that.

I am done here.

[szurinaga]

Rico, if I show you a video of US soldiers killing unarmed civilians in Afghanistan then will you STFU and swallow a knife? Yes there are videos, go look it up instead of being such a red white and blue slave

*in fact, let me post the link here so you dont have excuse not to see, and so everyone in this thread can see it.*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/06/bradley-manning-charged-iraq-killings-video

[Rico]

I never said Coalition troops never killed civilians unlike your claim that coalition troops have killed tens of thousands of civilians which is a complete lie.

Keep forgetting our fallen soldiers (insert your own expletive here to describe szurinaga).

[szurinaga]

Whats the matter Rico, you dont have the balls to say it to my face?

So you do admit that Coalition troops kill innocent civilians? And you think thats perfectly fine? Watch the video, these soldiers call in an airstrike to kill 12 innocent people, and the laugh about it. And this is one case where a dumbass soldier video taped what happened and put it on the internet.

Did I say that its the Coalition that has killed 10,000s of thousands of people, no! God your a Tool! Armies destabilize regions and kill many people through crossfires, air-raids and sometimes just for the hell of it

If I didn't know better, I'd find a way to online smack you...but i do know better and I know you're being sarcastic.

I hit back. With twice as much force as hit with.


Yeah. I forgot the (insert sarcasm emoticon here) My apologies.

---------- Post added 07-07-10 at 02:50 PM ----------

Will no one here acknowledge the gross amount of Middle eastern citizens who have been innocently killed during these wars? Must we always think about USA USA USA? Soldiers know what they were getting into when they joined the army, I care more about the people who got caught in the crossfire

What about the millions killed under their own leader Sadam Hussein?

What about the many innocent lives lost here in the US due to terrorism Man Made Disasters? What about those lives lost in Spain? England? Come on. These countries harbor these terrorists non military combatants.

[Rico]

Whats the matter Rico, you dont have the balls to say it to my face?

So you do admit that Coalition troops kill innocent civilians? And you think thats perfectly fine? Watch the video, these soldiers call in an airstrike to kill 12 innocent people, and the laugh about it. And this is one case where a dumbass soldier video taped what happened and put it on the internet.

Did I say that its the Coalition that has killed 10,000s of thousands of people, no! God your a Tool! Armies destabilize regions and kill many people through crossfires, air-raids and sometimes just for the hell of it

Dude you are such a pathetic mark.

Keep forgetting our fallen soldiers (insert your own expletive here to describe szurinaga).

[Nesster]

Boys, boys, calm down please. I'm certain the original intent wasn't to demean American or our allie's dead - there's plenty to feel sorrow for - but to also remember that there are thousands of civilians who also have suffered death or wounding. I truly feel sorry for them also, and had any of us had the misfortune to be born there, we certainly would have had a difficult life.

Will no one here acknowledge the gross amount of Middle eastern citizens who have been innocently killed during these wars? Must we always think about USA USA USA? Soldiers know what they were getting into when they joined the army, I care more about the people who got caught in the crossfire

The correct answer, if you live in the US or are an American living abroad is YES!, YES!, YES!. Who are we suppose to care about over ourselves? Mexico? China? Who? You? Wait. We already are protecting you and you kicked us out. Then cried when we wanted to close our navy base there we no longer needed. The only reason we needed Vieques was for live fire.

You care more about the "innocents" caught in the crossfire that were harboring insurgents? You care more about the "innocents" in the Middle East than American lives? Than your own life?

Moderators, why can't we have a policy where people with less than 400 or so posts can't partake in the P&R forums?

[GeneV]

I never said Coalition troops never killed civilians unlike your claim that coalition troops have killed tens of thousands of civilians which is a complete lie.

Just to keep it clear, that is not the only way we kill civilians. We take out a power plant, water plant, well, home, etc., and people die. We cut off transportation, and people die. We take out the government and are unable to replace the law and order, and people die from the havoc that results. We start a war in an area and bullets spray from all sides, and people die. There is no such thing as a "surgical" war.

When we fight wars, people, including numerous noncombatants, die. It is why we need to be very, very careful with this power.

[szurinaga]

The correct answer, if you live in the US or are an American living abroad is YES!, YES!, YES!. Who are we suppose to care about over ourselves? Mexico? China? Who? You? Wait. We already are protecting you and you kicked us out. Then cried when we wanted to close our navy base there we no longer needed. The only reason we needed Vieques was for live fire.

You care more about the "innocents" caught in the crossfire that were harboring insurgents? You care more about the "innocents" in the Middle East than American lives? Than your own life?

Moderators, why can't we have a policy where people with less than 400 or so posts can't partake in the P&R forums?

Thats the problem with you Americans, you only give a shit about yourselves and try to destroy the rest of the world. Perhaps one day there will be a war on U.S. soil and the opposing country will treat you with as little respect as you people have all around the world. And when you cry about the millions of U.S. citizens that have died, they will tell you to STFU because 100 soldiers have died trying to kill you guys.

Dont talk about topics you dont know shit about because Puerto Ricans never wanted an Navy base anywhere in Vieques. Perhaps you would like to see videos of my fellow compatriots throwing molotovs at the Navy base in Vieques back in the 60's

I care about ALL other lives as much as I care about my own. I would never start a war with a third-world country to kill thousands of there innocent civilians just to get back at the group of terrorist who perpetrated the acts of 9/11. Obviously no one around here realizes that Osama Bin landen is the equivalent of emmanuel goldstein

Cant we have a policy where people 400 pounds or more can't post on here? It slows down my bandwidth