Wow... That's fairly conclusive...

GingeM · 07-13-2010, 04:37 AM

Link

At the time of writing there are about 3.3 million votes cast with 96% supporting Arizona's immigration law. So... Despite all the pontification of the politicians and other talking heads the people seem to understand what's going on...

gokenin · 07-13-2010, 04:59 AM

interesting poll but the question is worded wrong it gives the impression that you can ask anyone for their papers at any time. The law is written so that you can only ask for papers if the person that you suspect has previously been stopped for committing another unlawful act.

GingeM · 07-13-2010, 05:09 AM

Yet, even though the question is put in the worst possible way 96% of voters still agree with it... It bodes well for November...

szurinaga · 07-13-2010, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by GingeM

Yet, even though the question is put in the worst possible way 96% of voters still agree with it... It bodes well for November...

No, It's put in the worst possible way to make people think what the police will be doing is justifiable. Police will just look for one reason to stop "suspected immigrants" but really just use it to persecute them about their papers.

Police- Hey mexican your shoe's untied, show me your papers!

graphicgr8s · 07-13-2010, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by szurinaga

No, It's put in the worst possible way to make people think what the police will be doing is justifiable. Police will just look for one reason to stop "suspected immigrants" but really just use it to persecute them about their papers.

Police- Hey mexican your shoe's untied, show me your papers!

Even if the police DID do that and if they are legal and have their paperwork in order then there won't be any problem. It would only be someone who is already breaking the law (by being here illegally) that would have to worry. What's your point?

szurinaga · 07-13-2010, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

Even if the police DID do that and if they are legal and have their paperwork in order then there won't be any problem. It would only be someone who is already breaking the law (by being here illegally) that would have to worry. What's your point?

You know that they WILL do that, that's exactly why they are being given this power. You know this is a purely racist topic. Did you notice that the keywords above that poll was immigration,u-s, arizona, msnbc.com and MEXICO?

why Mexico? I thought Illegals were ANYBODY from ANY country in the world that isn't the US.

jeffkrol · 07-13-2010, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by GingeM

Yet, even though the question is put in the worst possible way 96% of voters still agree with it... It bodes well for November...

But poorly for the country..... MY country.
That said for some reason all those polls at MSNBC are suspect.
See this one......
msnbc.com U.S. & World News - Should President Obama ask Gen. McChrystal to resign following comments attributed to his aides in a Rolling Stone article?
I believe many would say the poll was incorrect.....
As to polls I certainly concede they point in the wrong direction.........

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/05/two-national-polls-show-arizona-...y-popular.html

graphicgr8s · 07-13-2010, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by szurinaga

You know that they WILL do that, that's exactly why they are being given this power. You know this is a purely racist topic. Did you notice that the keywords above that poll was immigration,u-s, arizona, msnbc.com and MEXICO?

why Mexico? I thought Illegals were ANYBODY from ANY country in the world that isn't the US.

Most officers I have had dealings with (as friends and some as clients. My neighbor is a PR and is with HS) wouldn't. And don't. Why mexico? Because that's where most of the illegals come from? Could THAT be the reason? Just asking. Bless your heart.

Parallax · 07-13-2010, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by szurinaga

..............

why Mexico?.............

I would think that just maybe it's because a greater percentage of our illegal population comes from Mexico than from places like Nauru or Tuvalu.
Monaco, on the other hand has always been a huge problem................

wildman · 07-13-2010, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by GingeM

Yet, even though the question is put in the worst possible way 96% of voters still agree with it... It bodes well for November...

I agree. No matter how you quibble over semantics most folks see the Mexican-American border crossings as out of control and that illegal crossing is a threat to their way of life.

I think it's accurate to say people along the border are "mad as hell and they ain't going to take it anymore".

How you think people ought to feel about this issue and how they do feel is two different things.

Nesster · 07-13-2010, 07:15 AM

....excactly what paper sufficies - a drivers licence? Or do we need to carry birth certificates, naturlization papers, what? Because I'm worried, as I might blurt out 'Eh' in the presence of an officer, who will immediately suspect I'm an illegal Canadian.

graphicgr8s · 07-13-2010, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by Nesster

....excactly what paper sufficies - a drivers licence? Or do we need to carry birth certificates, naturlization papers, what? Because I'm worried, as I might blurt out 'Eh' in the presence of an officer, who will immediately suspect I'm an illegal Canadian.

What papers would you carry in mexico if you were living there legally? Or in Canada if you were a legal resident? Aren't you issued a card with your status? My wife still has to carry her green card. What's the big deal?

szurinaga · 07-13-2010, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Parallax

I would think that just maybe it's because a greater percentage of our illegal population comes from Mexico than from places like Nauru or Tuvalu.
Monaco, on the other hand has always been a huge problem................

Ok, then lets just call this law what it is, the Anti-Mexican law. To follow what you are saying, Police officers, not border patrol, need to concentrate almost all of the powers granted to them by harassing all illegal looking mexicans.

ALL people who have deep hispanic roots, despite being american citizens, will be hunted by police just because of their facial appearance.

People of Arizona, say good-bye to over half of your Diamondback baseball team

---------- Post added 07-13-10 at 07:30 AM ----------

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

What papers would you carry in mexico if you were living there legally? Or in Canada if you were a legal resident? Aren't you issued a card with your status? My wife still has to carry her green card. What's the big deal?

What papers would I carry around the country I live legally in? Nothing...

I am a citizen of Puerto Rico and U.S. but when I am in both countries I carry neither papers of identification or anything like that, unless you count my Ralph's card

graphicgr8s · 07-13-2010, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by szurinaga

Ok, then lets just call this law what it is, the Anti-Mexican law. To follow what you are saying, Police officers, not border patrol, need to concentrate almost all of the powers granted to them by harassing all illegal looking mexicans.

ALL people who have deep hispanic roots, despite being american citizens, will be hunted by police just because of their facial appearance.

People of Arizona, say good-bye to over half of your Diamondback baseball team

Well we can't get the Federal Government to enforce our laws. They CAN'T be stopped just for being mexican. And again, if they are legal they have nothing to worry about.

GeneV · 07-13-2010, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by gokenin

interesting poll but the question is worded wrong it gives the impression that you can ask anyone for their papers at any time. The law is written so that you can only ask for papers if the person that you suspect has previously been stopped for committing another unlawful act.

We went through this at length in another thread. The law actually says they can a person ask for papers in the course of any "lawful contact' with the person. The statute, as written, does not requrie that they be suspected of a crime, and no one really knows what a "lawful contact" means. Commentators have speculated that it could be anything from a casual "lawful" conversation with a citizen to suspicion of an actual crime.

07-13-2010, 04:37 AM	#1
GingeM Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North of Canada Posts: 612	Wow... That's fairly conclusive... Link At the time of writing there are about 3.3 million votes cast with 96% supporting Arizona's immigration law. So... Despite all the pontification of the politicians and other talking heads the people seem to understand what's going on...

07-13-2010, 06:47 AM	#6
szurinaga Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Juan Photos: Albums Posts: 145	Originally posted by graphicgr8s Even if the police DID do that and if they are legal and have their paperwork in order then there won't be any problem. It would only be someone who is already breaking the law (by being here illegally) that would have to worry. What's your point? You know that they WILL do that, that's exactly why they are being given this power. You know this is a purely racist topic. Did you notice that the keywords above that poll was immigration,u-s, arizona, msnbc.com and MEXICO? why Mexico? I thought Illegals were ANYBODY from ANY country in the world that isn't the US. Last edited by szurinaga; 07-13-2010 at 06:49 AM. Reason: typo

07-13-2010, 07:25 AM	#13
szurinaga Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Juan Photos: Albums Posts: 145	Originally posted by Parallax I would think that just maybe it's because a greater percentage of our illegal population comes from Mexico than from places like Nauru or Tuvalu. Monaco, on the other hand has always been a huge problem................ Ok, then lets just call this law what it is, the Anti-Mexican law. To follow what you are saying, Police officers, not border patrol, need to concentrate almost all of the powers granted to them by harassing all illegal looking mexicans. ALL people who have deep hispanic roots, despite being american citizens, will be hunted by police just because of their facial appearance. People of Arizona, say good-bye to over half of your Diamondback baseball team ---------- Post added 07-13-10 at 07:30 AM ---------- Originally posted by graphicgr8s What papers would you carry in mexico if you were living there legally? Or in Canada if you were a legal resident? Aren't you issued a card with your status? My wife still has to carry her green card. What's the big deal? What papers would I carry around the country I live legally in? Nothing... I am a citizen of Puerto Rico and U.S. but when I am in both countries I carry neither papers of identification or anything like that, unless you count my Ralph's card Last edited by szurinaga; 07-13-2010 at 07:32 AM.

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07-13-2010, 04:59 AM	#2
gokenin Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: lowell,ma Posts: 1,899	interesting poll but the question is worded wrong it gives the impression that you can ask anyone for their papers at any time. The law is written so that you can only ask for papers if the person that you suspect has previously been stopped for committing another unlawful act.

07-13-2010, 05:09 AM	#3
GingeM Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North of Canada Posts: 612 Original Poster	Yet, even though the question is put in the worst possible way 96% of voters still agree with it... It bodes well for November...

07-13-2010, 06:03 AM	#4
szurinaga Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Juan Photos: Albums Posts: 145	Originally posted by GingeM Yet, even though the question is put in the worst possible way 96% of voters still agree with it... It bodes well for November... No, It's put in the worst possible way to make people think what the police will be doing is justifiable. Police will just look for one reason to stop "suspected immigrants" but really just use it to persecute them about their papers. Police- Hey mexican your shoe's untied, show me your papers!

07-13-2010, 06:35 AM	#5
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by szurinaga No, It's put in the worst possible way to make people think what the police will be doing is justifiable. Police will just look for one reason to stop "suspected immigrants" but really just use it to persecute them about their papers. Police- Hey mexican your shoe's untied, show me your papers! Even if the police DID do that and if they are legal and have their paperwork in order then there won't be any problem. It would only be someone who is already breaking the law (by being here illegally) that would have to worry. What's your point?

07-13-2010, 06:54 AM	#7
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by GingeM Yet, even though the question is put in the worst possible way 96% of voters still agree with it... It bodes well for November... But poorly for the country..... MY country. That said for some reason all those polls at MSNBC are suspect. See this one...... msnbc.com U.S. & World News - Should President Obama ask Gen. McChrystal to resign following comments attributed to his aides in a Rolling Stone article? I believe many would say the poll was incorrect..... As to polls I certainly concede they point in the wrong direction......... http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/05/two-national-polls-show-arizona-...y-popular.html

07-13-2010, 07:00 AM	#8
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by szurinaga You know that they WILL do that, that's exactly why they are being given this power. You know this is a purely racist topic. Did you notice that the keywords above that poll was immigration,u-s, arizona, msnbc.com and MEXICO? why Mexico? I thought Illegals were ANYBODY from ANY country in the world that isn't the US. Most officers I have had dealings with (as friends and some as clients. My neighbor is a PR and is with HS) wouldn't. And don't. Why mexico? Because that's where most of the illegals come from? Could THAT be the reason? Just asking. Bless your heart.

07-13-2010, 07:10 AM	#9
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by szurinaga .............. why Mexico?............. I would think that just maybe it's because a greater percentage of our illegal population comes from Mexico than from places like Nauru or Tuvalu. Monaco, on the other hand has always been a huge problem................

07-13-2010, 07:14 AM	#10
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by GingeM Yet, even though the question is put in the worst possible way 96% of voters still agree with it... It bodes well for November... I agree. No matter how you quibble over semantics most folks see the Mexican-American border crossings as out of control and that illegal crossing is a threat to their way of life. I think it's accurate to say people along the border are "mad as hell and they ain't going to take it anymore". How you think people ought to feel about this issue and how they do feel is two different things.

07-13-2010, 07:15 AM	#11
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	....excactly what paper sufficies - a drivers licence? Or do we need to carry birth certificates, naturlization papers, what? Because I'm worried, as I might blurt out 'Eh' in the presence of an officer, who will immediately suspect I'm an illegal Canadian.

07-13-2010, 07:19 AM	#12
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by Nesster ....excactly what paper sufficies - a drivers licence? Or do we need to carry birth certificates, naturlization papers, what? Because I'm worried, as I might blurt out 'Eh' in the presence of an officer, who will immediately suspect I'm an illegal Canadian. What papers would you carry in mexico if you were living there legally? Or in Canada if you were a legal resident? Aren't you issued a card with your status? My wife still has to carry her green card. What's the big deal?

07-13-2010, 07:31 AM	#14
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by szurinaga Ok, then lets just call this law what it is, the Anti-Mexican law. To follow what you are saying, Police officers, not border patrol, need to concentrate almost all of the powers granted to them by harassing all illegal looking mexicans. ALL people who have deep hispanic roots, despite being american citizens, will be hunted by police just because of their facial appearance. People of Arizona, say good-bye to over half of your Diamondback baseball team Well we can't get the Federal Government to enforce our laws. They CAN'T be stopped just for being mexican. And again, if they are legal they have nothing to worry about.

07-13-2010, 07:31 AM	#15
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by gokenin interesting poll but the question is worded wrong it gives the impression that you can ask anyone for their papers at any time. The law is written so that you can only ask for papers if the person that you suspect has previously been stopped for committing another unlawful act. We went through this at length in another thread. The law actually says they can a person ask for papers in the course of any "lawful contact' with the person. The statute, as written, does not requrie that they be suspected of a crime, and no one really knows what a "lawful contact" means. Commentators have speculated that it could be anything from a casual "lawful" conversation with a citizen to suspicion of an actual crime.