[Parallax]

Ok, then lets just call this law what it is, the Anti-Mexican law. To follow what you are saying, Police officers, not border patrol, need to concentrate almost all of the powers granted to them by harassing all illegal looking mexicans.

..................

No, they shouldn't harass anybody. They should do the job they are paid to do; enforce the laws; all of the laws. The problem here is that people constantly overlook a minor detail with regard to illegal aliens, or, as you put it, illegal Mexicans. People overlook the "illegal" part. An illegal alien is, at any given instant in time, in the commission of a crime. Walking down the sidewalk, standing in line at Dairy Queen, watching football in his living room, whatever. All of those activities are being done while in the commission of a crime. That's what the "illegal" part of "illegal alien" means.

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Last edited by Parallax; 07-13-2010 at 07:50 AM.

[Nesster]

What papers would you carry in mexico if you were living there legally? Or in Canada if you were a legal resident? Aren't you issued a card with your status? My wife still has to carry her green card. What's the big deal?

When I had one, I carried my green card in my wallet. And I paid attention to the ALIENS! ads on TV each year when we had to do the renewal thing.

However, as a citizen, I don't carry proof, unless the drivers license suffices.

[szurinaga]

No, they shouldn't harass anybody. They should do the job they are paid to do; enforce the laws; all of the laws. The problem here is that people constantly overlook a minor detail with regard ti illegal aliens, or, as you put it, illegal Mexicans. People overlook the "illegal" part. An illegal alien is, at any given instant in time, in the commission of a crime. Walking down the sidewalk, standing in line at Dairy Queen, watching football in his living room, whatever. All of those activities are being done while in the commission of a crime. That's what the "illegal" part of "illegal alien" means.

Thats fine, I understand that. But as we see already, the hispanic group (mainly mexicans) are being prioritized in this law. Justice is Blind, did we forget that?

This is the exact same thing that happens in airports with people who are muslim. All people of color understand why they are being stopped in airports, but many white people(not all) when stopped wish they could say "Why me? I'm White! Stop that guy over there!" But, for some retarded reason, we all accept that we should be treated like prisoners while inside an airport(different topic for another time).

The majority of people who post around this forum are White men who have never been treated prejudicially by authoritative powers in their life and can not relate in the least with the problems of the minorities. That is not to say that you guys here are racist, but that if you experienced what these people have then you would have different feelings about a law like this.

I get the feeling though that the people who vote today for the law in Arizona are the same people who would vote for Jim Crow 100 years ago and against women's suffrage. It's a different era and people can't afford to look like bigots now with the entire world watching them, but the intentions of this law are the same

[Nesster]

Just as a hypothetical, let's say a couple of young men hit the bars and then get caught DUI. None have their IDs with them. Does the cop run them in for suspicion of being illegally in the United States, in addition to DUI and driving without a license?

Thats fine, I understand that. But as we see already, the hispanic group (mainly mexicans) are being prioritized in this law. Justice is Blind, did we forget that?

This is the exact same thing that happens in airports with people who are muslim. All people of color understand why they are being stopped in airports, but white people when stopped wish they could say "Why me? I'm White! Stop that guy over there!" But, for some retarded reason, we all accept that we should be treated like prisoners while inside an airport(different topic for another time).

The majority of people who post around this forum are White men who have never been treated prejudicially by authoritative powers in their life and can not relate in the least with the problems of the minorities. That is not to say that you guys here are racist, but that if you experienced what these people have then you would have different feelings about a law like this.

I get the feeling though that the people who vote today for the law in Arizona are the same people who would vote for Jim Crow 100 years ago and against women's suffrage. It's a different era and people can't afford to look like bigots now with the entire world watching them, but the intentions of this law are the same

No. The intentions are to stop illegal people. If the majority of the illegals are mexican than that's who get carded. If you have a murderer on the lose that is a 6 foot white guy do you stop a 5 foot mexican? If the murderer is a female do you stop men? Your argument is like a sieve. Full of holes.

[jeffkrol]

No. The intentions are to stop illegal people. If the majority of the illegals are mexican than that's who get carded. If you have a murderer on the lose that is a 6 foot white guy do you stop a 5 foot mexican? If the murderer is a female do you stop men? Your argument is like a sieve. Full of holes.

HOWEVER you care to spin the problem there is NO DOUBT that people will be questioned and detained strictly on the grounds of LOOKS, not law, not actions, not anything BUT looks as a COLLECTIVE GROUP not a specific "person of interest" but a general "person of color" or speech or social/economic class...
THAT just embarrasses me, problem or not.
Bottom line is it's the wrong solution to a "problem" and makes us look like a bunch of paranoid wackos PERIOD.. There I said it.
Want to waste what little money we have building a big giant fence so be it.. THIS law is not the answer to a problem but a problem to a problem............

HOWEVER you care to spin the problem there is NO DOUBT that people will be questioned and detained strictly on the grounds of LOOKS, not law, not actions, not anything BUT looks as a COLLECTIVE GROUP not a specific "person of interest" but a general "person of color" or speech or social/economic class...
THAT just embarrasses me, problem or not.
Bottom line is it's the wrong solution to a "problem" and makes us look like a bunch of paranoid wackos PERIOD.. There I said it.
Want to waste what little money we have building a big giant fence so be it.. THIS law is not the answer to a problem but a problem to a problem............

There are abuses in every situation. You can't avoid it. It will happen. So that means you scrap everything? Hell the Fed isn't doing anything to enforce laws already there.

[szurinaga]

No. The intentions are to stop illegal people. If the majority of the illegals are mexican than that's who get carded. If you have a murderer on the lose that is a 6 foot white guy do you stop a 5 foot mexican? If the murderer is a female do you stop men? Your argument is like a sieve. Full of holes.

I was going to semi-insult you which your reply very much deserved, but I'm not going to let this thread be closed by my disgust in your words. This thread is more important then that.

I must follow the words of Voltaire and hope you don't ever say something so silly again.

[GeneV]

I was going to semi-insult you which your reply very much deserved, but I'm not going to let this thread be closed by my disgust in your words. This thread is more important then that.

I must follow the words of Voltaire and hope you don't ever say something so silly again.

Thank you for changing that post. I think we are very close to losing this forum entirely if people don't stop with the insults.

[jeffkrol]

There are abuses in every situation. You can't avoid it. It will happen. So that means you scrap everything? Hell the Fed isn't doing anything to enforce laws already there.

Nope, give me a FEd ID then. chipped of course.. See what I mean is the "solution" is only good if you FEEL it is not to YOUR disadvantage.. BUT it's the only solution .. Fence or US ID Only FAIR way...

---------- Post added 07-13-10 at 09:54 AM ----------

I must follow the words of Voltaire and hope you don't ever say something so silly again.

That's funny.......

[Nesster]

Just as a hypothetical, let's say a couple of young men hit the bars and then get caught DUI. None have their IDs with them. Does the cop run them in for suspicion of being illegally in the United States, in addition to DUI and driving without a license?

...so let's say the two men are Tea Partiers?
or members of the New Black Panthers?
or former members of Menudo living off their past glory?

[gokenin]

Just as a hypothetical, let's say a couple of young men hit the bars and then get caught DUI. None have their IDs with them. Does the cop run them in for suspicion of being illegally in the United States, in addition to DUI and driving without a license?

well assuming that the cop actually does his job and takes these upstanding gentlemen into the police station instead of simply giving them a verbal warning. They will be processed and their names and social security numbers will be processed through the system and they will be proven to be citizens. Now should they be forced to stay in jail yes but that is another post.


As for being required to carry an offical government ID I dont see anything wrong with should it be a drivers license, an ID card or a passport it doesnt matter I never leave my house without my wallet and drivers license. I know there are countries in europe that reguire you to carry your ID with you at all times and they can stop anyone for any reason to ask for it. One of my friends just came back from Panama and there the police stopped him and the group he was with on the street and asked for there ID as a routine check in the area. So its not outside of the norm for states to ask you to carry identification

---------- Post added 07-13-10 at 02:16 PM ----------

...?
or former members of Menudo living off their past glory?

OK now you are just being silly when was Menudo ever popular enough to have PAST FAME ?

[GeneV]

As for being required to carry an offical government ID I dont see anything wrong with should it be a drivers license, an ID card or a passport it doesnt matter I never leave my house without my wallet and drivers license. I know there are countries in europe that reguire you to carry your ID with you at all times and they can stop anyone for any reason to ask for it. One of my friends just came back from Panama and there the police stopped him and the group he was with on the street and asked for there ID as a routine check in the area. So its not outside of the norm for states to ask you to carry identification

Europe and countries elsewhere have many requirements of law that don't seem to fly here. Take health care, for example.....

I was going to semi-insult you which your reply very much deserved, but I'm not going to let this thread be closed by my disgust in your words. This thread is more important then that.

I must follow the words of Voltaire and hope you don't ever say something so silly again.

Semi-insult me? Aw shucks Bless your heart. My post was accurate. Sorry if the truth hurts man.

[szurinaga]

Semi-insult me? Aw shucks Bless your heart. My post was accurate. Sorry if the truth hurts man.

hahahaha child please. Your truth makes me laugh