[wildman]

Yes, I know no one appointed me Miss Manners, but it boggles my mind that this forum is reopened for a few minutes before one person calls the other political side "dumb redneck KKK" and another answers in kind.

Is that kind of conversation really worth our time?

I know my answer, if anyone cares.

I think the problem is egos - either big or small.
Either way you start to see everything as personal and every opinion as either a personal attack or a threat.

When the ego gets in the way objectivity is impossible.

[troglodyte]

Does it count if we use terms of fictional characters? I'm particularly fond of the term pink Smurf. But don't get your panties in a bunch. Woops, guess you can't really say anything without managing to piss someone off, like a feminazi. Woops again!

[GeneV]

I think the problem is egos - either big or small.
Either way you start to see everything as personal and every opinion as either a personal attack or a threat.

When the ego gets in the way objectivity is impossible.

There are some truth to that. I also think part of the problem is also lack of time or laziness. It is easier to make a nasty remark about someone else's post or about the person than it is to actually look up whether there is any truth to it.

[seacapt]

Oh now would't it be cool if we had that as a soundtrack for the forum

"Two men enter One man leaves." now repeat that everytime you enter the forum

Thats even better than the soundtrack I wanted.... Twilight Zone...

How about Coven's "One Tin Soldier"?

umm This might be appropriate

You Tube

You Tube

[Ratmagiclady]

*wandering in with a cup of coffee.*

Messy already, eh?

Yeah, boys, though, Troglodyte's post is in fact misogynist.

Didn't see any indignance about that from the boys, but there we are.

Civil discourse in this society just seems too difficult for some.

[johnmflores]

If we can't act with any sense of personal responsibility or civility here in this forum, how we can expect anything more from the politicians and corporations that we skewer?

We are a microcosm.

[seacapt]

Good Morning RML, Have to agree with you on that but this is a new member and
might not be aware of the issues we've had here.

How are you doing RML? Well I hope.

[MRRiley]

Does it count if we use terms of fictional characters? I'm particularly fond of the term pink Smurf. But don't get your panties in a bunch. Woops, guess you can't really say anything without managing to piss someone off, like a feminazi. Woops again!

Trog, you need to learn a little history before you start making comments like this. There are reasons for the rules in this forum and first and foremost is that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but they must communicate in a polite and civil manner. When people start using inflamatory slurs like you did, the conversation quickly becomes more about the personalities involved than in the subject at hand.

I suggest you go read the rules and keep them in mind.

Mike
PF Moderation Team

p.s. the Moderators are definately not the people on here that you want to piss off!

[Parallax]

See, Trog, this is a good example of how the new system works. Right after Mike's post above, and immediately before this one you made an inappropriate post directed specifically at another member and "POOF", like magic, the post is gone!
Play nice, or play somewhere else.

[GeneV]

*wandering in with a cup of coffee.*

Messy already, eh?

Yeah, boys, though, Troglodyte's post is in fact misogynist.

Didn't see any indignance about that from the boys, but there we are.

Civil discourse in this society just seems too difficult for some.

There is plenty of indignation go around. Dig in.

[seacapt]

See, Trog, this is a good example of how the new system works. Right after Mike's post above, and immediately before this one you made an inappropriate post directed specifically at another member and "POOF", like magic, the post is gone!
Play nice, or play somewhere else.

Oh Darn I missed it.

[Ratmagiclady]

There is plenty of indignation go around. Dig in.

Really. I hadn't noticed. Or is it just selective? I'm not going to sit here and babysit with the 'report' button, either. Help sanitze what's based in a lot of very nasty ideas that rear their heads all the time.

Just like the MSM: Someone reveals true colors, "Poof," erase the evidence.

If we want a civil discussion, how about real respect, not just trying to monkey rules?

If we're to discuss things, I shouldn't have to point out that what he said, or whatever he said afterwards, is out of line.

More than that, maybe we could take this past some notion of 'You're censoring me when I don't say the outrageous within the rules enough,' and somewhere into some kind of ...actual respect for fellow humans?

One thing about this board, and 'General Talk' in Wild-West form before it is, the usual pattern is that the Right says all manner of provocative things and acts like there's a debate about things.

I was on this board a long time stifling myself at homophobic 'jokes' all over before I spoke out. It seems we spent the better part of a couple of years having a succession of people trying to tell me I'm some stereotype while I'm *right here.*

Some call that 'Debate.' I think it's something else.

When you treated 'people like me' as some kind of fair-game straw man, it wasn't right. When I spoke up, you took an awful lot of time trying to tell me *my* life is not what I know it is, but rather, whatever your talking points say.

And it's not right when you do it to others who also don't happen to participate in this forum.

If we're here to *speak and learn anything* ...then you have to get past that.

We're all people here, connected only by a common lens mount, but people nonetheless.

I spent a lot of time on this forum trying to keep it about just the photography. trying to ignore the insults, only ever referring to boyfriends, never girlfriends, (or being vague and letting people assume) never saying 'Shut up, that's me and my dearest you're talking about,' ...till I did finally say 'Enough.'

The only other answer was that this place was not about photography, but just plain *bullying.*

I think I spent enough time dealing with *that.*

So. Beyond just 'behave,' ...Think.

[JeffJS]

Really. I hadn't noticed. Or is it just selective? I'm not going to sit here and babysit with the 'report' button, either. Help sanitze what's based in a lot of very nasty ideas that rear their heads all the time.

Just like the MSM: Someone reveals true colors, "Poof," erase the evidence.

If we want a civil discussion, how about real respect, not just trying to monkey rules?

If we're to discuss things, I shouldn't have to point out that what he said, or whatever he said afterwards, is out of line.

More than that, maybe we could take this past some notion of 'You're censoring me when I don't say the outrageous within the rules enough,' and somewhere into some kind of ...actual respect for fellow humans?

One thing about this board, and 'General Talk' in Wild-West form before it is, the usual pattern is that the Right says all manner of provocative things and acts like there's a debate about things.

I was on this board a long time stifling myself at homophobic 'jokes' all over before I spoke out. It seems we spent the better part of a couple of years having a succession of people trying to tell me I'm some stereotype while I'm *right here.*

Some call that 'Debate.' I think it's something else.

When you treated 'people like me' as some kind of fair-game straw man, it wasn't right. When I spoke up, you took an awful lot of time trying to tell me *my* life is not what I know it is, but rather, whatever your talking points say.

And it's not right when you do it to others who also don't happen to participate in this forum.

If we're here to *speak and learn anything* ...then you have to get past that.

We're all people here, connected only by a common lens mount, but people nonetheless.

I spent a lot of time on this forum trying to keep it about just the photography. trying to ignore the insults, only ever referring to boyfriends, never girlfriends, (or being vague and letting people assume) never saying 'Shut up, that's me and my dearest you're talking about,' ...till I did finally say 'Enough.'

The only other answer was that this place was not about photography, but just plain *bullying.*

I think I spent enough time dealing with *that.*

So. Beyond just 'behave,' ...Think.

Pot > Kettle > Black

[JohnBee]

Yes, I know no one appointed me Miss Manners, but it boggles my mind that this forum is reopened for a few minutes before one person calls the other political side "dumb redneck KKK" and another answers in kind.

Okay here's what I think...

While I think most would agree that the heart of the issue is within(no surprises there). We are left with an appeal too guidance.

With that in mind, the forum(in itself) becomes the problem.
In short... its a cesspool that has no place in a community such as this one. and tbh. I have no idea why such a forum would even exist in the first place, when there is so much more to be talked about with regards to photography.

But on the issue of politics, there is such as thing as trying to hard.
And I think this forum may have fallen prey to this very phenomenon by trying to serve too many purposes at the same table.

My two cents.