[GeneV]

Yes, I know no one appointed me Miss Manners, but it boggles my mind that this forum is reopened for a few minutes before one person calls the other political side "dumb redneck KKK" and another answers in kind.

Is that kind of conversation really worth our time?

I know my answer, if anyone cares.

[JeffJS]

If there is nothing to respond to there will be no response. It seems to me that there are really only a few who cannot stay from making such provocations. This forum could be saved from a line of Red folders along the left, if those people were just banned. I doubt they have learned much during their lives and I further doubt they ever will. A simple request of no name calling cannot even be respected by some. Just bounce them and be done with it.

[MRRiley]

Yes, I know no one appointed me Miss Manners, but it boggles my mind that this forum is reopened for a few minutes before one person calls the other political side "dumb redneck KKK" and another answers in kind.

Is that kind of conversation really worth our time?

I know my answer, if anyone cares.

It's true Gene... no one appointed you Miss Manners, but I appreciate your comment. Also, be assured that you are not "a voice crying alone in the wilderness." The vast majority of members, I am sure, feel the same way you do. P&R is not the wild wild west and we (the staff) are not going to put up with the type of behavior and comments which precipitated that latest shutdown. We understand that the conversations can, and will be allowed to, get somewhat heated. However when comments get personal or turn into shootouts, we will step in.

It's important to read the new P&R rules. They will be adhered to strictly.

Mike
PR Moderation Team

p.s. Yes it was disappointing to have to close a thread within minutes of the forum reopening, but hopefully that will serve as an object lesson. Kindergarten is over kiddies. Grow up and behave like adults!

[Oldschool]

What JeffJS said.

[GeneV]

I do agree with acting on posters as an effective approach. Not that threads should not be closed, but when a thread is closed, I'm not sure anyone accepts the responsibility.

I also think that we, as a microcosm of the world, need to think about what a political discussion is. IMHO, it should be an exchange of ideas, facts, and reasoning. If that can be done with wit and without insult, then all the better. If it can't be done without insult, then it is best avoided.

[seacapt]

Well I'm simply apalled that the gentleman from NJ would stereotype us rednecks as dumb and members of the Klan. I for one am a college educated redneck and not affiliated in any way with the Ku Klux Klan.
But seriously this is a place where debate and arguement will happen. Some members push the report this thread button way too often when things aren't going their way. If the "new and improved" forum is going to be a castrated version then why bother!
The rule seems simple - No Personal Attacks. That does not mean you have to agree with everyone.
For example in the opening statement of this post I made a point without personal attack but had I reffered to the gentleman from NJ as an ign----t yankee c---k s----r then that would have been a personal attack . Civil dicussion does not even imply that everyone is supposed to get along.
If y'all want a place where everyone says nice things to each other and agrees on the topic then start an "I love fuzzy bunnies " forum. If you want a place to argue politics or other controversial issues (YES I SAID ARGUE) then simply play by the rules.

[Parallax]

Gene, don't give up yet. Give us a little time under the new rules and guidelines. I posted this in a response to Ken's thread in GT, but I will restate it here so there is no misunderstanding later:

Under the new rules, if a post that is directly insulting/hostile toward a member (as opposed to an ideology) is reported by a thread participant, an infraction will be issued and depending on time frame of previous infractions the member may be banned from P&R. Insulting/hostile/baiting type posts that are not reported will just be deleted. If, for example, I see post that contains something like "Oh yeah! Well <insert member name here>, you're an idiot" I will delete the entire post. If the post contained pertinent, rational, contributory comments as well; too bad. The bottom line is that if people want to be heard in P&R they will have to be civil. It isn't fair to let a small handful of posters with self-control issues dictate what is discussed.

[GeneV]

Well I'm simply apalled that the gentleman from NJ would stereotype us rednecks as dumb and members of the Klan. I for one am a college educated redneck and not affiliated in any way with the Ku Klux Klan.
But seriously this is a place where debate and arguement will happen. Some members push the report this thread button way too often when things aren't going their way. If the "new and improved" forum is going to be a castrated version then why bother!
The rule seems simple - No Personal Attacks. That does not mean you have to agree with everyone.
For example in the opening statement of this post I made a point without personal attack but had I reffered to the gentleman from NJ as an ign----t yankee c---k s----r then that would have been a personal attack . Civil dicussion does not even imply that everyone is supposed to get along.
If y'all want a place where everyone says nice things to each other and agrees on the topic then start an "I love fuzzy bunnies " forum. If you want a place to argue politics or other controversial issues (YES I SAID ARGUE) then simply play by the rules.

I agree 100% that disagreement is expected, and the forum would not be much fun without it.

However, I think that "personal attack" is also too narrow. A post that just says something strongly and insultingly negative about all...[conservatives liberals southerners northerners people with blonde hair] is a giant step down that road. Posts that say "all conservatives are redneck members of the KKK" and the counterparts for liberals are also just empty insults to other members. What's the expected answer to that other than the return of an empty insult? That's not a political argument or discussion, it is just an exchange of insults.

[MRRiley]

What Jim said!!!

And Ken... we don't expect people not to argue and debate... we actually expect it but as has been pointed out, it has to be civil. Think of the forum as Boxing... not Cage Fighting or Thunderdome... In other words there are rules... just please don't use Mike Tyson as a role model.

Mike

---------- Post added 07-26-10 at 11:57 AM ----------

I agree 100% that disagreement is expected, and the forum would not be much fun without it.

However, I think that "personal attack" is also too narrow. A post that just says something strongly and insultingly negative about all...[conservatives liberals southerners northerners people with blonde hair] is a giant step down that road. Posts that say "all conservatives are redneck members of the KKK" and the counterparts for liberals are also just empty insults to other members. What's the expected answer to that other than the return of an empty insult? That's not a political argument or discussion, it is just an exchange of insults.

If you take that as a personal insult then report the post and we will deal with it as a consensus of the mods determine.

And don't forget, the mods are free to intervene in threads even if a report has not been made and we will be active in the threads (Jim and I at a minimum anyway).

Mike

[gokenin]

What Jim said!!!

And Ken... we don't expect people not to argue and debate... we actually expect it but as has been pointed out, it has to be civil. Think of the forum as Boxing... not Cage Fighting or Thunderdome... In other words there are rules... just please don't use Mike Tyson as a role model.

Mike[COLOR="Silver"]

Oh now would't it be cool if we had that as a soundtrack for the forum

"Two men enter One man leaves." now repeat that everytime you enter the forum

[lesmore49]

Yes, I know no one appointed me Miss Manners, but it boggles my mind that this forum is reopened for a few minutes before one person calls the other political side "dumb redneck KKK" and another answers in kind.

Is that kind of conversation really worth our time?

I don't spend much time on this particular forum anymore, for the reasons you outline.

[MRRiley]

Oh now would't it be cool if we had that as a soundtrack for the forum

"Two men enter One man leaves." now repeat that everytime you enter the forum

Thats even better than the soundtrack I wanted.... Twilight Zone...

[Parallax]

How about Coven's "One Tin Soldier"?

[seacapt]

How about Coven's "One Tin Soldier"?

Allready been used in a sound track , pretty good movie too.

[GeneV]

Allready been used in a sound track , pretty good movie too.

Especially given its six figure budget.