If it's good for the goose..um a well lets just not talk about the gander

troglodyte · 07-29-2010, 11:17 AM

How many more people like Robert Krentz have to die because the Fed can't be bothered by doing its job. When will Americans consider American lives important inside its own country instead of the lives of criminal drug lords, mules and smuglers.

seacapt · 07-29-2010, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

Much ado about nothing...

It is not their job anyways.

Gee Jeff , Wiki has a whole page on the subject and you Quoted one sentence.
Funny how subjective "Much ado about nothing" can be.

gokenin · 07-29-2010, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

Much ado about nothing...

It is not their job anyways.

Just out of curiosity who has the job? any if that was the case should we assume that the states shouldn't be enforcing federal drug laws as well? thats usually done by local L.E.Os How about the speed limits on federal highways? do state and local cops have the rights or legal ability to enforce them? Just becasue its something that the Federal goverment has the decision making when it comes to policy it doesn't as far as i know exempt state and local authorities from enforcing the law of the land

troglodyte · 07-29-2010, 11:28 AM

seacapt,
Yep, exactly. Funny how Universities have the snitch on your fellow student program.Those same brilliant thinkers praise consealing illegal cheaters coming into the country.But say,'its not my job to enforce cheating students,'you get expelled!

GeneV · 07-29-2010, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by seacapt

Thats the kind of rhetoric that keeps anything from happening. The AZ bill gave law enforcement the right to look into immigration status as part of it's id check of people involved in suspected illegal activity or routine encounters ie.traffic violations. It did not give them the right to stop people just to check there status.

Ken, please go read the law: "For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency…where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person" Lawful contact was vague, and Arizona is in the process of rewriting the law now, to clarify it.

Quite honestly, if it comes to the point where the law basically says that people arrested for some other crime need to show an ID, and they may be reported to the INS if it looks fishy, I don't know that I will have a problem with it.

---------- Post added 07-29-10 at 02:36 PM ----------

Originally posted by gokenin

Just out of curiosity who has the job? any if that was the case should we assume that the states shouldn't be enforcing federal drug laws as well? thats usually done by local L.E.Os How about the speed limits on federal highways? do state and local cops have the rights or legal ability to enforce them? Just becasue its something that the Federal goverment has the decision making when it comes to policy it doesn't as far as i know exempt state and local authorities from enforcing the law of the land

States do not enforce federal drug laws. They enforce state drug laws. State law sets the speed limits on "federal" highways. The federal government actually does not own or directly regulate highways, but puts strings on the money it gives states to build them.

seacapt · 07-29-2010, 02:41 PM

A couple interesting things I read today in regards to what's left of SB1070.
Police can not stop people from hanging out in public places soliciting day labor but they can go after anyone driving a car that stops to pick a day laborer up.
And then there was an interview with a gentleman who had been deported a few weeks ago after being turned over to Border Patrol by AZ police who found him driving drunk without a liscence. He is in a government shelter in Mexico waiting to be transported to his home. He said he was spending his time making plans to sneak back into the USA . He stated that next time he would avoid AZ and head for FL.

subeeds · 07-29-2010, 03:00 PM

This is to the point about having to carry ID in this country.
I live about 25 miles north of Jacksonvillle, Fla.. A few years ago, when Jax. hosted the Super Bowl, we were overrun with people coming to the game. Local law enforcement came around and told us to get ID from everybody checking into every room. I asked 'what if they don't have ID?". I was told that since 9/11, it is against the law to not carry some form of photo ID. I ahve no idea what law that would be, but I"m sure it was slipped into some bill somewhere.

troglodyte · 07-29-2010, 04:33 PM

subeeds, FL has stop and identify which states that persons not usually from an area is 'loitering.' This requires ID. If you can't or won't show ID, it's a misdemeanor. Nothing to do with 911. That law was before it happened.

jeffkrol · 07-29-2010, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by seacapt

A couple interesting things I read today in regards to what's left of SB1070.
Police can not stop people from hanging out in public places soliciting day labor but they can go after anyone driving a car that stops to pick a day laborer up.

As it should be, otherwise you are blaming the victim... "I need money to feed my family" is NOT the one to arrest but the one "ILLEGALLY" hiring him... simple and fair (finally). No one hires them.. no more problem. PLAIN and SIMPLE.

Originally posted by seacapt

And then there was an interview with a gentleman who had been deported a few weeks ago after being turned over to Border Patrol by AZ police who found him driving drunk without a liscence. He is in a government shelter in Mexico waiting to be transported to his home. He said he was spending his time making plans to sneak back into the USA . He stated that next time he would avoid AZ and head for FL.

Ehhh.... what do you want to do? Throw him in prison and PAY for his stay???

troglodyte · 07-29-2010, 08:06 PM

jeffkrol,
I like that! So just put the guy who hires the assassin in jail? If no one hired him, no one would be killed anymore by him!

Oldschool · 07-29-2010, 08:18 PM

Let's see, it costs about $22,000 per year to keep someone in prison. If we figure about 10,000,000 illegal or undocumented or whatever term you want to use, that's about $220 billion and that's not even counting the billions needed to build the prisons. Kiss the tax cuts good bye. I don't think that's a great solution.

gokenin · 07-29-2010, 09:08 PM

why should they be sent to prison ? Deportation is the easiest solution simply send them back across the border why should the american taxpayer have to support them for even a day?

jeffkrol · 07-30-2010, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by troglodyte

jeffkrol,
I like that! So just put the guy who hires the assassin in jail? If no one hired him, no one would be killed anymore by him!

YES we do.......and yes it is that simple.......
Common sense to arrest the drug dealer more then hundreds of users...
don't keep collecting the spilled oil..... kill the well....

Ira · 07-30-2010, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by GeneV

The answer is not to have every state and municipality enact their own laws, but to insist that the federal government break its decades-old gridlock on this issue.

Well, I'm not a huge supporter of state's rights for many issues (for example, I don't believe you should be able to have an abortion in New York but not Virginia), but the illegal immigration issue is different because it affects various states differently:

What's needed in Arizona, Texas and to a lesser extent California is not what's needed in Idaho. You have U.S. border towns taking incredible financial (economic and otherwise) and criminal hits from illegals, affecting in the end the country as a whole, but this sure doesn't directly affect the folks in Idaho.

To think there's a "one size fits all" policy to immigration enforcement for all states is to waste money where it's not needed, not spend enough where it is, misdirect your enforcement energies, and have ineffective enforcement.

I think that most people who oppose the Arizona law don't do so on the basis of some perceived civil rights violations. Rather, they just don't want this country to have any effective enforcement policies at all.

Parallax · 07-30-2010, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

.. "I need money to feed my family" is NOT the one to arrest

Do we apply that theory to all crimes/criminals. Armed robbery and burglary are okay as long as the perp is just doing it to feed his family? Here's a radical idea: How about arresting ALL
of the criminals involved in a crime?

07-30-2010, 05:07 AM	#44
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by GeneV The answer is not to have every state and municipality enact their own laws, but to insist that the federal government break its decades-old gridlock on this issue. Well, I'm not a huge supporter of state's rights for many issues (for example, I don't believe you should be able to have an abortion in New York but not Virginia), but the illegal immigration issue is different because it affects various states differently: What's needed in Arizona, Texas and to a lesser extent California is not what's needed in Idaho. You have U.S. border towns taking incredible financial (economic and otherwise) and criminal hits from illegals, affecting in the end the country as a whole, but this sure doesn't directly affect the folks in Idaho. To think there's a "one size fits all" policy to immigration enforcement for all states is to waste money where it's not needed, not spend enough where it is, misdirect your enforcement energies, and have ineffective enforcement. I think that most people who oppose the Arizona law don't do so on the basis of some perceived civil rights violations. Rather, they just don't want this country to have any effective enforcement policies at all. Last edited by Ira; 07-30-2010 at 05:17 AM.

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07-29-2010, 11:17 AM	#31
troglodyte Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oz Posts: 408	How many more people like Robert Krentz have to die because the Fed can't be bothered by doing its job. When will Americans consider American lives important inside its own country instead of the lives of criminal drug lords, mules and smuglers.

07-29-2010, 11:18 AM	#32
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271 Original Poster	Originally posted by jeffkrol Much ado about nothing... It is not their job anyways. Gee Jeff , Wiki has a whole page on the subject and you Quoted one sentence. Funny how subjective "Much ado about nothing" can be.

07-29-2010, 11:26 AM	#33
gokenin Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: lowell,ma Posts: 1,899	Originally posted by jeffkrol Much ado about nothing... It is not their job anyways. Just out of curiosity who has the job? any if that was the case should we assume that the states shouldn't be enforcing federal drug laws as well? thats usually done by local L.E.Os How about the speed limits on federal highways? do state and local cops have the rights or legal ability to enforce them? Just becasue its something that the Federal goverment has the decision making when it comes to policy it doesn't as far as i know exempt state and local authorities from enforcing the law of the land

07-29-2010, 11:28 AM	#34
troglodyte Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oz Posts: 408	seacapt, Yep, exactly. Funny how Universities have the snitch on your fellow student program.Those same brilliant thinkers praise consealing illegal cheaters coming into the country.But say,'its not my job to enforce cheating students,'you get expelled!

07-29-2010, 01:32 PM	#35
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by seacapt Thats the kind of rhetoric that keeps anything from happening. The AZ bill gave law enforcement the right to look into immigration status as part of it's id check of people involved in suspected illegal activity or routine encounters ie.traffic violations. It did not give them the right to stop people just to check there status. Ken, please go read the law: "For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency…where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person" Lawful contact was vague, and Arizona is in the process of rewriting the law now, to clarify it. Quite honestly, if it comes to the point where the law basically says that people arrested for some other crime need to show an ID, and they may be reported to the INS if it looks fishy, I don't know that I will have a problem with it. ---------- Post added 07-29-10 at 02:36 PM ---------- Originally posted by gokenin Just out of curiosity who has the job? any if that was the case should we assume that the states shouldn't be enforcing federal drug laws as well? thats usually done by local L.E.Os How about the speed limits on federal highways? do state and local cops have the rights or legal ability to enforce them? Just becasue its something that the Federal goverment has the decision making when it comes to policy it doesn't as far as i know exempt state and local authorities from enforcing the law of the land States do not enforce federal drug laws. They enforce state drug laws. State law sets the speed limits on "federal" highways. The federal government actually does not own or directly regulate highways, but puts strings on the money it gives states to build them.

07-29-2010, 02:41 PM	#36
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271 Original Poster	A couple interesting things I read today in regards to what's left of SB1070. Police can not stop people from hanging out in public places soliciting day labor but they can go after anyone driving a car that stops to pick a day laborer up. And then there was an interview with a gentleman who had been deported a few weeks ago after being turned over to Border Patrol by AZ police who found him driving drunk without a liscence. He is in a government shelter in Mexico waiting to be transported to his home. He said he was spending his time making plans to sneak back into the USA . He stated that next time he would avoid AZ and head for FL.

07-29-2010, 03:00 PM	#37
subeeds Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camden County, Ga. Photos: Gallery Posts: 333	This is to the point about having to carry ID in this country. I live about 25 miles north of Jacksonvillle, Fla.. A few years ago, when Jax. hosted the Super Bowl, we were overrun with people coming to the game. Local law enforcement came around and told us to get ID from everybody checking into every room. I asked 'what if they don't have ID?". I was told that since 9/11, it is against the law to not carry some form of photo ID. I ahve no idea what law that would be, but I"m sure it was slipped into some bill somewhere.

07-29-2010, 04:33 PM	#38
troglodyte Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oz Posts: 408	subeeds, FL has stop and identify which states that persons not usually from an area is 'loitering.' This requires ID. If you can't or won't show ID, it's a misdemeanor. Nothing to do with 911. That law was before it happened.

07-29-2010, 07:56 PM	#39
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by seacapt A couple interesting things I read today in regards to what's left of SB1070. Police can not stop people from hanging out in public places soliciting day labor but they can go after anyone driving a car that stops to pick a day laborer up. As it should be, otherwise you are blaming the victim... "I need money to feed my family" is NOT the one to arrest but the one "ILLEGALLY" hiring him... simple and fair (finally). No one hires them.. no more problem. PLAIN and SIMPLE. Originally posted by seacapt And then there was an interview with a gentleman who had been deported a few weeks ago after being turned over to Border Patrol by AZ police who found him driving drunk without a liscence. He is in a government shelter in Mexico waiting to be transported to his home. He said he was spending his time making plans to sneak back into the USA . He stated that next time he would avoid AZ and head for FL. Ehhh.... what do you want to do? Throw him in prison and PAY for his stay???

07-29-2010, 08:06 PM	#40
troglodyte Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oz Posts: 408	jeffkrol, I like that! So just put the guy who hires the assassin in jail? If no one hired him, no one would be killed anymore by him!

07-29-2010, 08:18 PM	#41
Oldschool Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 1,278	Let's see, it costs about $22,000 per year to keep someone in prison. If we figure about 10,000,000 illegal or undocumented or whatever term you want to use, that's about $220 billion and that's not even counting the billions needed to build the prisons. Kiss the tax cuts good bye. I don't think that's a great solution.

07-29-2010, 09:08 PM	#42
gokenin Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: lowell,ma Posts: 1,899	why should they be sent to prison ? Deportation is the easiest solution simply send them back across the border why should the american taxpayer have to support them for even a day?

07-30-2010, 04:53 AM	#43
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by troglodyte jeffkrol, I like that! So just put the guy who hires the assassin in jail? If no one hired him, no one would be killed anymore by him! YES we do.......and yes it is that simple....... Common sense to arrest the drug dealer more then hundreds of users... don't keep collecting the spilled oil..... kill the well....

07-30-2010, 05:08 AM	#45
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by jeffkrol .. "I need money to feed my family" is NOT the one to arrest Do we apply that theory to all crimes/criminals. Armed robbery and burglary are okay as long as the perp is just doing it to feed his family? Here's a radical idea: How about arresting ALL of the criminals involved in a crime?