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07-29-2010, 09:07 AM   #1
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Trade vs. a sale ...

Typically when you sell an item in the marketplace or elsewhere, the standard protocol seems to be pretty well established... the buyer makes a payment, the seller receives the payment, and then ships the item to the buyer...

How does a 'trade' work out then? Are there any standard 'trade' practices that you tend to follow?

This question came up when I recently had an option to 'trade' a lens, rather than sell it... and the question was on how to secure the trade... and other than a face to face exchange... I couldn't think of much... how do you secure a trade?

07-29-2010, 09:12 AM   #2
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I suppose there isn't really a way aside from trusting the other trader - I certainly wouldn't do a trade with a new user unless there were other concrete ways for me to prove their identity. If someone had marketplace feedback, a post history and possibly other references, that would be enough for me. Perhaps you could send each other a $1.00 payment through paypal to further validate their identity (confirmed address, verified account, that sort of thing).
07-29-2010, 09:32 AM   #3
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Or, both agree to a price that their lenses are worth (say, you're doing a 1:1 trade for a lens that is worth about $150 on the market), you could each send eachother that amount. You'll be short the 3% Paypal fee, but you might decide that's worth the security.
07-29-2010, 09:47 AM   #4
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Ummm think about this. Whether it's a dollar or a million, if you both send the same amount, the net gain is zero. Meaning other than it being a gesture or gaining their true identity, sending any amount would be the same. So why send more than minimum?

07-29-2010, 07:07 PM   #5
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A trade eliminates the sales commissioning (at least from one side of an unevenly valued trade). For equally valued items, the trade is a great idea - all you pay for is shipping.

I too wouldn't trade with just anyone, but when the opportunity came to trade what I wanted with a well-established member on the forum, I was all for it - and the transaction went beautifully.
07-29-2010, 07:23 PM   #6
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I've done three trades on here, two of which were even value trades, and have had no issues. It does, however, take a certain leap of faith as there is limited recourse if things were to go badly.

That said, my very first transaction on this forum was a trade of my (original) FA77 for a DA*50-135. I was only a member for about a month and had no posts, nor any feedback. In retrospect, I wouldn't have traded with me under the circumstances, but it all worked out fine in the end
07-29-2010, 07:26 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by troglodyte Quote
Ummm think about this. Whether it's a dollar or a million, if you both send the same amount, the net gain is zero. Meaning other than it being a gesture or gaining their true identity, sending any amount would be the same. So why send more than minimum?

Uh, cuz if one side ends up being a fraud, you can only file a claim with Paypal for $1, if $1 is all you "paid"?

07-29-2010, 08:20 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Or, both agree to a price that their lenses are worth (say, you're doing a 1:1 trade for a lens that is worth about $150 on the market), you could each send eachother that amount. You'll be short the 3% Paypal fee, but you might decide that's worth the security.
QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Uh, cuz if one side ends up being a fraud, you can only file a claim with Paypal for $1, if $1 is all you "paid"?

You are correct. You would get the most potential protection by basically doing a simultaneous double sale. I say potential because it's debatable how much protection PayPal actually offers you on transactions that occur outside of ebay. You would likely be covered in the case of gross fraud where the other party doesn't send you anything. However, you would likely not be well covered if the item you bought didn't meet your expectations and/or wasn't exactly as described.
07-29-2010, 08:24 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
You are correct. You would get the most potential protection by basically doing a simultaneous double sale. I say potential because it's debatable how much protection PayPal actually offers you on transactions that occur outside of ebay. You would likely be covered in the case of gross fraud where the other party doesn't send you anything. However, you would likely not be well covered if the item you bought didn't meet your expectations and/or wasn't exactly as described.

Exactly. So the question for whoever might consider is, like I said, "Is 3% of this money worth what little *protection* I can expect from Paypal".

Personally, if there was something I REALLY wanted, that was REALLY rare and PRETTY expensive (say, over $1,000 on the market), then I would definitely propose/consider this method for a trade, IF the person I'm dealing with is not an established member :-)
07-29-2010, 08:32 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Exactly. So the question for whoever might consider is, like I said, "Is 3% of this money worth what little *protection* I can expect from Paypal".

Personally, if there was something I REALLY wanted, that was REALLY rare and PRETTY expensive (say, over $1,000 on the market), then I would definitely propose/consider this method for a trade, IF the person I'm dealing with is not an established member :-)
Exactly. When I did my first trade (and I was the one who had no established feedback at the time) I actually was the one who suggested that we each purchase the lens from each other via PayPal so that we'd have some level of protection. We actually went so far as to make the payments to each other. However it was at that point that I took the time to read the "fine print" and both he and I decided that we'd forgo the transaction fee and protection so we refunded each other the money before sending the lenses. But again, that was our choice and paying the transaction fee and doing it through paypal is certainly a viable option.

It's not dissimilar from the choice between paying with PayPal as a "sales transaction" (and incurring a 3% fee) versus paying with a "personal-gift transfer" (and avoiding the fee).
07-29-2010, 08:36 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by dgaies Quote
However it was at that point that I took the time to read the "fine print" and both he and I decided that we'd forgo the transaction fee and protection so we refunded each other the money before sending the lenses. But again, that was our choice and paying the transaction fee and doing it through paypal is certainly a viable option.

Hmmm. That got me thinking. Potentially, the refund *could* occur after the trade has successfully completed. If both sides are happy, they could both refund the money, and get the 3% fee back :-D

Of course, that depends on whether or not both sides can agree that, upon receiving the goods, they'd both feel comfortable enough to trust each other that the other party will, indeed, go through with the refund :-)
07-29-2010, 08:44 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Hmmm. That got me thinking. Potentially, the refund *could* occur after the trade has successfully completed. If both sides are happy, they could both refund the money, and get the 3% fee back :-D

Of course, that depends on whether or not both sides can agree that, upon receiving the goods, they'd both feel comfortable enough to trust each other that the other party will, indeed, go through with the refund :-)
That was actually our original plan... except there's one potential problem (as you alluded to).

Let's say you and I are trading lenses and we agree to send each other $500 and then refund it when we're both happy. So you refund my money. Now let's say I decide to be a jerk and not refund yours, what do you do? You can't go to PayPal and tell them you want your money back for the lens I sent you because technically I shipped the lens and your received it and that transaction was legit. So then if you try to tell them you want the money you refunded me back, it might be difficult to explain why your refunded money for an item that wasn't returned to you (and telling them you did it to avoid their fees probably wouldn't get you very far )
07-30-2010, 08:03 AM   #13
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I have been involved in 1 or 2 trades through the market place here. The other person was known to be reliable and we just shipped the lenses simultaneously. We disclosed the details of the lenses to each other prior to the trade agreement. I wouldn't do a trade with a new member with no feedback etc. unless they were someone I know from elsewhere i.e. in person or another forum.
07-30-2010, 08:40 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by RawheaD Quote
Uh, cuz if one side ends up being a fraud, you can only file a claim with Paypal for $1, if $1 is all you "paid"?
You missed my point - to find additional information that verifies that the person you are dealing with is legit (for instance, my paypal account would show a confirmed address and that I am a verified user of paypal). I would do this only for additional peace of mind, not so I would have an avenue to file a claim down the road. Since we are discussing trades here and not a buyer/seller dynamic, there is no avenue for fraud - it is ultimately at your own risk.
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