Having a bit of a Post-Secondary Panic Attack

jaieger · 08-09-2010, 12:52 AM - **1 Like**

removed.

Last edited by jaieger; 01-18-2011 at 10:03 PM.

Steinback · 08-09-2010, 03:12 AM - **1 Like**

I know of a couple biologists who spend at least part of their time hanging out of the side of helicopters taking pictures of caribou, crawling on their bellies in the muskeg taking pictures of lichen and various critters, and electroshocking and photographing different species of fish. How much of any of those things you end up doing depends on what you specialize in and whether or not you choose a career path that takes you out into the field.

McMaster is in Hamilton and in my experience their Engineering students are friendly and the campus is reasonably nice. Travelling by train from the Hamilton Go station to downtown Toronto takes a bit over an hour and driving it could take quite a bit longer depending on the time of day.

I'm sure your mother would be quite happy to show you the basics of laundry and cooking before you leave (or even if you stay...). Of the 20 + people I lived with over the years at university plenty couldn't cook or do laundry, some after years of trying, but they all survived the experience. I'm thinking of the Iraqi guy who kept his dirty laundry in garbage bags in the garage for months, another guy who lit the carpet on fire with an iron, the many people who were incapable of balancing laundry loads, and enough kitchen fires that I lost count.

mel · 08-09-2010, 04:00 AM - **1 Like**

Many who study biology end up teaching an universities and conduct research on the side. My b.s. degree is in bio and my brother in law is a university prof in bio (entomology), travels the world more or less, and is even required to take photos of his study subjects. If you're comfortable with teaching that's a head start. But keep in mind, to get to the dream job level, you'll have to see it through to a Ph.D.

ChooseAName · 08-09-2010, 05:43 AM - **1 Like**

Regarding laundry, when in doubt, cold wash everything.

And what Mel said. Your dream job probably exists, but you're going to have to do a LOT of school to get there. Not as much as a medical doctor, but still a lot. And you'll probably have to get the best grades and have some very good research experience to get that dream job. This is not pessimism, this is unfortunately realism.

If you are sure this is your passion, pursue it. But also be aware that lots of people completely change their minds about their passions while in college. And lots of people completely change their minds multiple times. If you don't want to be burdened with gigantic debt upon graduation, try to find your passion soon.

<soapbox>
Don't get a B.S in biology if you're not going to do biology or something related to it. I feel a bit (just a bit

) sorry for people who get degrees in stuff like philosophy or sociology and then end up working some retail job that they could've gotten without a 4 year college degree and the debt that accompanies it. I am not a subscriber to the "college experience" just for the sake of college experience mindset. It'd probably be good to have some form of marketable backup, such as a minor in business or something like that.
</soapbox>

B Grace · 08-09-2010, 10:51 AM - **1 Like**

I'm never sure about the laundry question so when in doubt I read the labels. And my best university advice is whenever the dining hall has "steak night" always go with the cheeseburgers.

My college degree helped me find a great job but I am still a 100% subscriber to the college experience, and many of the classes I took in college which I find most beneficial today had nothing to do with my degree program. Such as Principles of Human Resources. Creative Writing. Business Law. Industrial Electronics. And Principles of Marketing.

A college degree doesn't teach you how to get and perform a job or task. A degree program teaches you how to learn how to perform a task, how to research a problem and find answers, how to speak the language so you can easily communicate with the folks you are trying to help and who are trying to help you. I do believe in the "well-rounded person" - he or she is a gift from God when the going gets rough. A B.S. in Biology would give you experience that would easily transfer to another line of work should you decide to change later in life.

The one drawback to the term "dream job" is the job part. Don't forget that it is work. You already know what you are interested in doing and that's the hard part.

ChooseAName · 08-09-2010, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by B Grace

My college degree helped me find a great job but I am still a 100% subscriber to the college experience, and many of the classes I took in college which I find most beneficial today had nothing to do with my degree program. Such as Principles of Human Resources. Creative Writing. Business Law. Industrial Electronics. And Principles of Marketing.

I should clarify that by "college experience," I meant the non-academic folly-of-youth parts such as partying and drinking. I do not dispute that the subjects you listed are useful.

B Grace · 08-09-2010, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by ChooseAName

I should clarify that by "college experience," I meant the non-academic folly-of-youth parts such as partying and drinking. I do not dispute that the subjects you listed are useful.

Sorry I placed the literal slant on your comment there. My office just sent a group of interns back to school for the fall. They're all gung-ho about finishing school which is great but I hate to see them miss the opportunity to learn all they can while they can. It's sure difficult for a person to go back to school once they've started a career, family, etc.

rhe · 08-10-2010, 04:52 AM

Getting a University degree in Biology is well worth considering. Both my wife and I have B.Sc. degrees in Physiology & Biochemistry and we in fact met at University. In fact we have 17 University of Toronto degrees in our family (not all in biology however).

Biology is a very broad field and does not always involve animals and outdoor field work but certainly can if that is what continues to interest you as you do your studies.

We both continued to complete M.Sc. degrees. I worked on DNA synthesis by a bacteriaphage and she studied an enzyme produced in rat mucosa.

I then switched to teaching science and Math at high schools followed by becoming a Vice Principal. My wife worked on exhibit development at the Ontario Science Centre before she switched to project management at the Ministry of Energy. Just to show that a biology degree can lead to many different careers.

As far as I know, both McMaster and UBC have excellent biology programs. I am sure that the challenges (laundry etc.) of student life will be easy for you to meet. The most important thing is for you to continue your education for as long as you can in a field that interests you!

Parallax · 08-10-2010, 01:37 PM

I know a woman who has a BS in Biology, and a MS in environmental biology. She has worked as a chemist for the last 25 years. She says most biology degree people end up as chemists of some sort.
One night while working the night shift in the Emergency Room we were discussing education with the on-call physician. He told me something that I have since heard repeated more than once. If you want to be able to write your own ticket, get a degree in biochemistry.

**Sailor** · 08-11-2010, 05:59 AM

Prior to recently retiring as a staff-level, supervisory scientist, I spent 36 years in materals/chemistry and mid-to-long range R&D.

In my experience - and this is only in the US - degrees in biology at the BS level often end up as lab techs and are paid far less than, say, BS chemical engineers. We - and most other companies - rarely hire even BS chemists for research, since overall costs (including overhead) of maintaining a BS researcher is only marginally less than those for PhD's, the significantly larger salaries of the latter not withstanding.

Most people that I know that are intensely interested in the biological sciences will - as do we chemists - specialize in a particular area through grad work. It may very well be that once into a general bio course, you'll see where you want to focus and go from there. For example, as an undergrad, my daughter double-majored in math and psychology and became intensely interested in neuroscience; consequently, after completing a PhD in neuroscience at Ohio State last December, she's now a postdoc at Stanford.

Also - at least in the US - many kids (most?) change their minds about majors once they've entered college and sampled the courses. I started undergrad life as a music major but ended up with a PhD in organic chemistry. So . . . . ya never know.

Jer

reeftool · 08-11-2010, 06:58 AM

In the real world, people often end up working in a field quite different from their degree. My wife has a degree in bio/chemestry and ended up working as a nurse for disabled people. Sailor is right on. She worked as a lab tech for less money than she made cleaning houses part time as a student. She went back to school (job paid for it) and got a degree in psychology. A degree from a good liberal arts college will leave you well grounded to do just about anything. My youngest daughter just graduated from St. Lawrence with a degree in environmental studies which includes most of the things you show interest in. She's fortunate to be working in her field of study for now with the Adirondack Watershed project but funding runs out in the fall so it may be on to other things. Start out with the things that interest you now. Biology is a course you will probably take anyhow and you will have a better idea if you want to continue in that field after the the required course. You're going to do a lot of writing in college so you should be able to decide on journalism pretty quick, which will be a life work of researching and writing. Be aware that the world is changing fast and newspapers, magazines, and other outlets for a journalism major no longer has the opportunity it once had.

School isn't an end but just the beginning. Hopefully, it will properly prepare you for whatever field you end up doing. The reality of life is that we usually end up taking what we can get rather than doing what we want. An education leaves you more choices.

Andi Lo · 08-11-2010, 07:40 AM

If you like the conservation stuff, and thinking of going to UBC, have you considered the degrees that the Faculty of Forestry offers? They have the Natural Resources Conservation, a field which usually does quite a lot of field work. If you take the international stream, they will have you go to other countries outside of Canada to do co-op.

jaieger · 08-11-2010, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by Andi Lo

If you like the conservation stuff, and thinking of going to UBC, have you considered the degrees that the Faculty of Forestry offers? They have the Natural Resources Conservation, a field which usually does quite a lot of field work. If you take the international stream, they will have you go to other countries outside of Canada to do co-op.

Thanks for everyone's replies so far! Definitely been thought provoking..Andi, would you happen to know what in particular people in this field do?

JeffJS · 08-12-2010, 08:08 AM

Yep, when I was a Senior in HS, I had big dreams too. Many that enter college thinking they know what they want to do, change their minds mid program. You have time to figure this out for yourself and there will be some general classes to get out of the way first (prerequisites) anyway.

There are 3 types of science people (in general) as I see it.

1: There are the academics. Those are the people who go through the education in their chosen field and never leave the university setting. They stay, if tenured, applying for research grants and doing all their work within the walls of the university. Naturally, they are also the professors but I've never seen any of these people actually teach a class. They have their research assistants do it (when you go for your masters degree, that's what you'll be doing, somebody else's work).

2: There are the corporates. These are the folks who get their educations and spend the rest of their lives in a corporation run lab somewhere. The amount and type of work you do here will depend on what the company is going to support.

3: Finally there are the freelancers. That is somewhat an ambiguous term because it implies someone who just goes off gallivanting around the world chasing after something. Partially true. These people choose a specific area of their given field and focus only on that. They may work for a corporation or even the university at some level but they decide where and how their research takes them.

Photography can be combined with any pursuit. If you're thinking about having somebody Pay you to do it, then do it as a sideline only. That's my suggestion anyway. There are billions of people in this world and I'd wager at least half of them have cameras and internet access. I call them freelancers. That is, they take their photos and hope someone will buy them for publication of some sort. Paying jobs are more likely to involve war zones or disaster areas. That is, unless you are standing outside of a club in Hollywierd hoping to get the next crotch shot of Brittany Spears.

As for striking out on your own and learning to do for yourself, we all go through it, most of us survive it. There are a few who never learn but those are the 'special' cases.

Bottom line, you have time. Your college career may not survive your first intentions. That's what the first couple years are for.

Andi Lo · 08-12-2010, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by jaieger

Thanks for everyone's replies so far! Definitely been thought provoking..Andi, would you happen to know what in particular people in this field do?

A lot of them end up doing lots of research out in the field for government or private organizations (profit or non). Mind you this usually means 20% field, 80% computers (kinda like pro photography -taking photos is only a small part of the job). The school gets you outside 20% of the time you'll be spending there, as well. Example researches would be something like the effect of water temperature on salmon spawns, or tree growth in winter.

Another type of work in this line would be active conservation efforts with non-profit organization such as ducks unlimited or project seahorse.

You'll definitely have time to take pictures outside, although bringing a dslr to the school might be overkill.

And I also second Jeff's comment as that happened to me twice!

08-09-2010, 12:52 AM - 1 Like	#1
jaieger Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 586	Having a bit of a Post-Secondary Panic Attack removed. Last edited by jaieger; 01-18-2011 at 10:03 PM.

08-09-2010, 04:00 AM - 1 Like	#3
mel Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,531	Many who study biology end up teaching an universities and conduct research on the side. My b.s. degree is in bio and my brother in law is a university prof in bio (entomology), travels the world more or less, and is even required to take photos of his study subjects. If you're comfortable with teaching that's a head start. But keep in mind, to get to the dream job level, you'll have to see it through to a Ph.D. Last edited by mel; 08-09-2010 at 02:09 PM.

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08-09-2010, 03:12 AM - 1 Like	#2
Steinback Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: GTA, ON, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,673	I know of a couple biologists who spend at least part of their time hanging out of the side of helicopters taking pictures of caribou, crawling on their bellies in the muskeg taking pictures of lichen and various critters, and electroshocking and photographing different species of fish. How much of any of those things you end up doing depends on what you specialize in and whether or not you choose a career path that takes you out into the field. McMaster is in Hamilton and in my experience their Engineering students are friendly and the campus is reasonably nice. Travelling by train from the Hamilton Go station to downtown Toronto takes a bit over an hour and driving it could take quite a bit longer depending on the time of day. I'm sure your mother would be quite happy to show you the basics of laundry and cooking before you leave (or even if you stay...). Of the 20 + people I lived with over the years at university plenty couldn't cook or do laundry, some after years of trying, but they all survived the experience. I'm thinking of the Iraqi guy who kept his dirty laundry in garbage bags in the garage for months, another guy who lit the carpet on fire with an iron, the many people who were incapable of balancing laundry loads, and enough kitchen fires that I lost count.

08-09-2010, 05:43 AM - 1 Like	#4
ChooseAName Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southeast USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 390	Regarding laundry, when in doubt, cold wash everything. And what Mel said. Your dream job probably exists, but you're going to have to do a LOT of school to get there. Not as much as a medical doctor, but still a lot. And you'll probably have to get the best grades and have some very good research experience to get that dream job. This is not pessimism, this is unfortunately realism. If you are sure this is your passion, pursue it. But also be aware that lots of people completely change their minds about their passions while in college. And lots of people completely change their minds multiple times. If you don't want to be burdened with gigantic debt upon graduation, try to find your passion soon. <soapbox> Don't get a B.S in biology if you're not going to do biology or something related to it. I feel a bit (just a bit ) sorry for people who get degrees in stuff like philosophy or sociology and then end up working some retail job that they could've gotten without a 4 year college degree and the debt that accompanies it. I am not a subscriber to the "college experience" just for the sake of college experience mindset. It'd probably be good to have some form of marketable backup, such as a minor in business or something like that. </soapbox>

08-09-2010, 10:51 AM - 1 Like	#5
B Grace Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 429	I'm never sure about the laundry question so when in doubt I read the labels. And my best university advice is whenever the dining hall has "steak night" always go with the cheeseburgers. My college degree helped me find a great job but I am still a 100% subscriber to the college experience, and many of the classes I took in college which I find most beneficial today had nothing to do with my degree program. Such as Principles of Human Resources. Creative Writing. Business Law. Industrial Electronics. And Principles of Marketing. A college degree doesn't teach you how to get and perform a job or task. A degree program teaches you how to learn how to perform a task, how to research a problem and find answers, how to speak the language so you can easily communicate with the folks you are trying to help and who are trying to help you. I do believe in the "well-rounded person" - he or she is a gift from God when the going gets rough. A B.S. in Biology would give you experience that would easily transfer to another line of work should you decide to change later in life. The one drawback to the term "dream job" is the job part. Don't forget that it is work. You already know what you are interested in doing and that's the hard part.

08-09-2010, 12:02 PM	#6
ChooseAName Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southeast USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 390	Originally posted by B Grace My college degree helped me find a great job but I am still a 100% subscriber to the college experience, and many of the classes I took in college which I find most beneficial today had nothing to do with my degree program. Such as Principles of Human Resources. Creative Writing. Business Law. Industrial Electronics. And Principles of Marketing. I should clarify that by "college experience," I meant the non-academic folly-of-youth parts such as partying and drinking. I do not dispute that the subjects you listed are useful.

08-09-2010, 07:14 PM	#7
B Grace Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 429	Originally posted by ChooseAName I should clarify that by "college experience," I meant the non-academic folly-of-youth parts such as partying and drinking. I do not dispute that the subjects you listed are useful. Sorry I placed the literal slant on your comment there. My office just sent a group of interns back to school for the fall. They're all gung-ho about finishing school which is great but I hate to see them miss the opportunity to learn all they can while they can. It's sure difficult for a person to go back to school once they've started a career, family, etc.

08-10-2010, 04:52 AM	#8
rhe Closed Account Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 271	Getting a University degree in Biology is well worth considering. Both my wife and I have B.Sc. degrees in Physiology & Biochemistry and we in fact met at University. In fact we have 17 University of Toronto degrees in our family (not all in biology however). Biology is a very broad field and does not always involve animals and outdoor field work but certainly can if that is what continues to interest you as you do your studies. We both continued to complete M.Sc. degrees. I worked on DNA synthesis by a bacteriaphage and she studied an enzyme produced in rat mucosa. I then switched to teaching science and Math at high schools followed by becoming a Vice Principal. My wife worked on exhibit development at the Ontario Science Centre before she switched to project management at the Ministry of Energy. Just to show that a biology degree can lead to many different careers. As far as I know, both McMaster and UBC have excellent biology programs. I am sure that the challenges (laundry etc.) of student life will be easy for you to meet. The most important thing is for you to continue your education for as long as you can in a field that interests you!

08-10-2010, 01:37 PM	#9
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	I know a woman who has a BS in Biology, and a MS in environmental biology. She has worked as a chemist for the last 25 years. She says most biology degree people end up as chemists of some sort. One night while working the night shift in the Emergency Room we were discussing education with the on-call physician. He told me something that I have since heard repeated more than once. If you want to be able to write your own ticket, get a degree in biochemistry.

08-11-2010, 05:59 AM	#10
Sailor Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coastal Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,205	Prior to recently retiring as a staff-level, supervisory scientist, I spent 36 years in materals/chemistry and mid-to-long range R&D. In my experience - and this is only in the US - degrees in biology at the BS level often end up as lab techs and are paid far less than, say, BS chemical engineers. We - and most other companies - rarely hire even BS chemists for research, since overall costs (including overhead) of maintaining a BS researcher is only marginally less than those for PhD's, the significantly larger salaries of the latter not withstanding. Most people that I know that are intensely interested in the biological sciences will - as do we chemists - specialize in a particular area through grad work. It may very well be that once into a general bio course, you'll see where you want to focus and go from there. For example, as an undergrad, my daughter double-majored in math and psychology and became intensely interested in neuroscience; consequently, after completing a PhD in neuroscience at Ohio State last December, she's now a postdoc at Stanford. Also - at least in the US - many kids (most?) change their minds about majors once they've entered college and sampled the courses. I started undergrad life as a music major but ended up with a PhD in organic chemistry. So . . . . ya never know. Jer

08-11-2010, 06:58 AM	#11
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	In the real world, people often end up working in a field quite different from their degree. My wife has a degree in bio/chemestry and ended up working as a nurse for disabled people. Sailor is right on. She worked as a lab tech for less money than she made cleaning houses part time as a student. She went back to school (job paid for it) and got a degree in psychology. A degree from a good liberal arts college will leave you well grounded to do just about anything. My youngest daughter just graduated from St. Lawrence with a degree in environmental studies which includes most of the things you show interest in. She's fortunate to be working in her field of study for now with the Adirondack Watershed project but funding runs out in the fall so it may be on to other things. Start out with the things that interest you now. Biology is a course you will probably take anyhow and you will have a better idea if you want to continue in that field after the the required course. You're going to do a lot of writing in college so you should be able to decide on journalism pretty quick, which will be a life work of researching and writing. Be aware that the world is changing fast and newspapers, magazines, and other outlets for a journalism major no longer has the opportunity it once had. School isn't an end but just the beginning. Hopefully, it will properly prepare you for whatever field you end up doing. The reality of life is that we usually end up taking what we can get rather than doing what we want. An education leaves you more choices.

08-11-2010, 07:40 AM	#12
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	If you like the conservation stuff, and thinking of going to UBC, have you considered the degrees that the Faculty of Forestry offers? They have the Natural Resources Conservation, a field which usually does quite a lot of field work. If you take the international stream, they will have you go to other countries outside of Canada to do co-op.

08-11-2010, 08:51 PM	#13
jaieger Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 586 Original Poster	Originally posted by Andi Lo If you like the conservation stuff, and thinking of going to UBC, have you considered the degrees that the Faculty of Forestry offers? They have the Natural Resources Conservation, a field which usually does quite a lot of field work. If you take the international stream, they will have you go to other countries outside of Canada to do co-op. Thanks for everyone's replies so far! Definitely been thought provoking..Andi, would you happen to know what in particular people in this field do?

08-12-2010, 08:08 AM	#14
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Yep, when I was a Senior in HS, I had big dreams too. Many that enter college thinking they know what they want to do, change their minds mid program. You have time to figure this out for yourself and there will be some general classes to get out of the way first (prerequisites) anyway. There are 3 types of science people (in general) as I see it. 1: There are the academics. Those are the people who go through the education in their chosen field and never leave the university setting. They stay, if tenured, applying for research grants and doing all their work within the walls of the university. Naturally, they are also the professors but I've never seen any of these people actually teach a class. They have their research assistants do it (when you go for your masters degree, that's what you'll be doing, somebody else's work). 2: There are the corporates. These are the folks who get their educations and spend the rest of their lives in a corporation run lab somewhere. The amount and type of work you do here will depend on what the company is going to support. 3: Finally there are the freelancers. That is somewhat an ambiguous term because it implies someone who just goes off gallivanting around the world chasing after something. Partially true. These people choose a specific area of their given field and focus only on that. They may work for a corporation or even the university at some level but they decide where and how their research takes them. Photography can be combined with any pursuit. If you're thinking about having somebody Pay you to do it, then do it as a sideline only. That's my suggestion anyway. There are billions of people in this world and I'd wager at least half of them have cameras and internet access. I call them freelancers. That is, they take their photos and hope someone will buy them for publication of some sort. Paying jobs are more likely to involve war zones or disaster areas. That is, unless you are standing outside of a club in Hollywierd hoping to get the next crotch shot of Brittany Spears. As for striking out on your own and learning to do for yourself, we all go through it, most of us survive it. There are a few who never learn but those are the 'special' cases. Bottom line, you have time. Your college career may not survive your first intentions. That's what the first couple years are for.

08-12-2010, 03:05 PM	#15
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	Originally posted by jaieger Thanks for everyone's replies so far! Definitely been thought provoking..Andi, would you happen to know what in particular people in this field do? A lot of them end up doing lots of research out in the field for government or private organizations (profit or non). Mind you this usually means 20% field, 80% computers (kinda like pro photography -taking photos is only a small part of the job). The school gets you outside 20% of the time you'll be spending there, as well. Example researches would be something like the effect of water temperature on salmon spawns, or tree growth in winter. Another type of work in this line would be active conservation efforts with non-profit organization such as ducks unlimited or project seahorse. You'll definitely have time to take pictures outside, although bringing a dslr to the school might be overkill. And I also second Jeff's comment as that happened to me twice!