Did you convert to your religion, if not why are you staying?

troglodyte · 08-16-2010, 01:56 AM

I was forced into being Lutheran. I never did really believe it but played along. Got confirmed and all. I knew as much of the bible or more than the pastorm Yes they are that stupid where a kid can disect the 'word' better than a grown man who has it as a

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:01 AM ----------

job.
I even went to a Lutheran school. One half trimester I got all A's. The next half, being the clever kid I was, decided to invoke god if he really did even exist. What I decided to do was prove the whole pre-destiny theory. Without even being taught

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:04 AM ----------

about the scientific method and having a null hypothesis and test, that was exactly what I was doing. My idea was to fool around and have fun. After all if god made everything, nothing was beyond his knowing and he was a real cool dude, why would he make

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:08 AM ----------

me study and get good grades if nintendo was so much funner? Makes sense right? God had plans for me and all. I didn't really believe it, but I was willing to give it the ole boy scout try. I didn't work my ass off like before in classes. My teacher

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:11 AM ----------

teacher thought something was wrong with me. I was lazy. He even convinced me my parents of such nonsense. Can you believe it? I was being blamed. Not that god all of a sudden meant me to be with him more. On the contrary, every time I'd put a woopin' on

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:14 AM ----------

bowser I'd thank the lord for him moving my hands for me. I felt lost. I felt betrayed by god. All this praying to him and I'd gotten the wrath of the teacher and my parents against me. I had my nintendo taken away from me. It was horrible. Why god would

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:18 AM ----------

you do this to me? Because I was playing a trick on you? I was being a bad christian. So I thought, I'll know for sure. I'll deny you god. Then I could be payed back again by you. I'd work my ass off, and deny you god. I was way ahead of that whole

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:23 AM ----------

blasphemers challenge. If only I had written this whole experiment down, I'd be getting the credit over a decade sooner! Instead of all those emo youtube shits. If I denied god and still tried my best, how could I succeed? Rather than get all Cs and Bs

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:27 AM ----------

like before, god would step it up and give me all Fs! But would you believe it? No way, I got all As. My parents were so happy. My teacher said how I did it. It was ME who got his act togetheer. It wasn't I was now a better christian. I worked hard, I got

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:30 AM ----------

good grades. God didn't do a damn thing. This was an amazing concept. It's something that you wouldn't expect to happen. So here I am. I'm happy as a lark. I feel great. I have a wonderful wife. I have a son with two more on the way. God sure turned out

---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:34 AM ----------

great for me. Even though the bible says it's the fool who denies god and blasphemy is the one sin that will send you to hell, instead he blesses me anyway. Thank you god. You really are truly great.
That's my conversion story to having the atheist faith.

causey · 08-16-2010, 03:00 AM

You can write the whole text and then press "submit" rather than submitting 3-4 line consequent passages. Makes it easier to follow.

troglodyte · 08-16-2010, 03:09 AM

causey,
My cellphone is a POS. It only allows 3-4 lines before filling up the buffer. I only have the cell. Athiests are smart cookies. If All I do is this forum, then a regular internet is a waste. I'd rather spend that money on more cool lenses.

stevewig · 08-16-2010, 10:02 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by troglodyte

.........That's my conversion story to having the atheist faith.

You made the same error of logic - absence of faith is not FAITH.

It is quite simply a denial of any of the religious beliefs. Some will say "if you believe in that then you have at least a belief.

Wrong again, I have an absence of belief in any of the religious teachings.

Todd K. · 08-17-2010, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by stevewig

You made the same error of logic - absence of faith is not FAITH.

It is quite simply a denial of any of the religious beliefs. Some will say "if you believe in that then you have at least a belief.

Wrong again, I have an absence of belief in any of the religious teachings.

It seems like your faith would be in your self. It takes a lot of self confidence (or maybe arrogance?) to think you are capable of the infinite understanding and knowledge required to rule out the existence of a God anywhere in or even beyond our infinite universe.

GeneV · 08-17-2010, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by Todd K.

It seems like your faith would be in your self. It takes a lot of self confidence (or maybe arrogance?) to think you are capable of the infinite understanding and knowledge required to rule out the existence of a God anywhere in or even beyond our infinite universe.

Again, that is the same error in logic repeated over and over again. Absence of belief in God is not a belief in the absence of God. It is just admitting you don't know. That is the least arrogant of all positions.

reeftool · 08-19-2010, 08:37 AM

What you discovered in your experiment is the Biblical Truth that one reaps what he sows. Your concept of what the Christian faith is was way out of line to begin with. Your hours spent playing Nintendo made you a good game player and nothing more. You got bad grades because you didn't learn anything and put no effort into school work. You blame God because you failed? A couple of hours reading the Proverbs could have saved you a semester of grief. Using that result to abandon faith makes no sense whatsoever. I was never a Lutheran so I don't know what you were taught. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that our lives are "predestined". If you spend time reading it, you will find the opposite to be true.

troglodyte · 08-19-2010, 11:43 AM

Reeftool,
I was a kid. I should have been allowed to have fun. Instead of letting me be a kid I was shoved down my throat fire and brimstone. If god knows all, CAN do all, notice can, not does, why would he allow a member of his flock to suffer that

---------- Post added 08-19-10 at 10:49 AM ----------

sort of thing? I know I wouldn't want my name being misrepresented if I were a jealous god. I've since had 21 years to refibe my thoughts. All of which point to no god or is very close to proving no god. Maybe I should make my own youtube videos like that

---------- Post added 08-19-10 at 10:55 AM ----------

amazing atheist.But I'd show rational thought and not the liberal agenda like he does.It's so hard to expresss what I want to say when all I see is four words at a time on this cell.I could explain w/e you say I haven't thought out with no misunderstanding

psychdoc · 08-19-2010, 01:09 PM - **1 Like**

First of all I appreciate a honest atheist to someone who 'goes through the motions' for social or other reasons...

Having said that -although I dont know Lutheran theology very well- Have you ever considered what Jesus meant when he said that the 'God makes the rains fall on good people and bad people alike'. In those day farming was a common occupation so it was very clear and funny to picture rain not falling on some peoples fields and not on on others. Anyway the point was that Jesus went against the mold of every religious belief including Jewish ones where the prevailing wisdom was that if something bad was happening to you it was because you sinned. Not true. In fact, Jesus said quite the opposite. His followers would be persecuted, they would be following the 'hard and narrow road'. That may not be exactly what is preached in some churches today. But that is what it is.

Again the above is not to somehow 'make' you believe in God but just to point out that the reason given had nothing to do with anything Jesus promised his followers. But we do have something in common

There is nothing like having a wife you love and kids. Enjoy the kids, they grew up toooo fast. And get all the pics you can. Teens are not going to much fun to take pics of...

clmonk · 08-19-2010, 01:28 PM

Trog wrote: I was a kid. I should have been allowed to have fun. Instead of letting me be a kid I was shoved down my throat fire and brimstone. If god knows all, CAN do all, notice can, not does, why would he allow a member of his flock to suffer that sort of thing?
I never heard fire and brimstone from a Lutheran pulpit...but maybe I just wasn't in the same kind of church as you, but it seems to me you must not have spent much time in the Book if you think God would not want a "member of his flock to suffer that sort of thing."
Actions/Inaction has/ve consequences. And why would ANYone assume that God only wants rich, prosperous, perfect leader kinds of people. Ever read the book of Job? Ever looked at how many times Jeremiah was crying? Ever thought about how the prophets died? Ever considered how the disciples lived prior to Christ, during their time with Christ, after Christ died? If you had, you may think this is a GREAT argument for the non-existence of God, but SOMEthing or someONE changed all those men. That same SOMEONE is still in the business of changing men. He changed me. I can't offer scientific proof of His existence, but I KNOW what He did in my life and that is enough for me. God thought enough about me, and others like me, that He sent His own Son. Look what He allowed His Son to experience! Why should we expect that He would make life cushy for us?

reeftool · 08-20-2010, 07:38 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by troglodyte

Reeftool,
I was a kid. I should have been allowed to have fun. Instead of letting me be a kid I was shoved down my throat fire and brimstone. If god knows all, CAN do all, notice can, not does, why would he allow a member of his flock to suffer that

---------- Post added 08-19-10 at 10:49 AM ----------

sort of thing? I know I wouldn't want my name being misrepresented if I were a jealous god. I've since had 21 years to refibe my thoughts. All of which point to no god or is very close to proving no god. Maybe I should make my own youtube videos like that

---------- Post added 08-19-10 at 10:55 AM ----------

amazing atheist.But I'd show rational thought and not the liberal agenda like he does.It's so hard to expresss what I want to say when all I see is four words at a time on this cell.I could explain w/e you say I haven't thought out with no misunderstanding

Many people who I have run across through the years who have turned away from the Christian faith have done so because of the actions of other people. There is a strong misconception of what it is to be a Christian. The Gospel is about forgiveness. It's about redemption. As you read the New Testament, the very issue you mention, about God being misrepresented, is the main theme. Jesus was crucified because He was directly opposed to the religious thought of the day. As God Himself, He set out to show the true nature of God and people did not accept His message so they killed Him. In the greatest act of love ever, His death became the punishment for all believers. The Gospel is a very simple message but unfortunately, too many people want to add "conditions" to that gift. Most of the New Testament letters and teachings are fighting "religious" ideas people began adding to the Christian Church. They were wrong 2000 yrs. ago and they are wrong today.

GeneV · 08-20-2010, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by reeftool

Many people who I have run across through the years who have turned away from the Christian faith have done so because of the actions of other people. There is a strong misconception of what it is to be a Christian. The Gospel is about forgiveness. It's about redemption. As you read the New Testament, the very issue you mention, about God being misrepresented, is the main theme. Jesus was crucified because He was directly opposed to the religious thought of the day. As God Himself, He set out to show the true nature of God and people did not accept His message so they killed Him. In the greatest act of love ever, His death became the punishment for all believers. The Gospel is a very simple message but unfortunately, too many people want to add "conditions" to that gift. Most of the New Testament letters and teachings are fighting "religious" ideas people began adding to the Christian Church. They were wrong 2000 yrs. ago and they are wrong today.

A few books got taken away, too, but that is another discussion.

08-16-2010, 01:56 AM	#1
troglodyte Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oz Posts: 408	Did you convert to your religion, if not why are you staying? I was forced into being Lutheran. I never did really believe it but played along. Got confirmed and all. I knew as much of the bible or more than the pastorm Yes they are that stupid where a kid can disect the 'word' better than a grown man who has it as a ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:01 AM ---------- job. I even went to a Lutheran school. One half trimester I got all A's. The next half, being the clever kid I was, decided to invoke god if he really did even exist. What I decided to do was prove the whole pre-destiny theory. Without even being taught ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:04 AM ---------- about the scientific method and having a null hypothesis and test, that was exactly what I was doing. My idea was to fool around and have fun. After all if god made everything, nothing was beyond his knowing and he was a real cool dude, why would he make ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:08 AM ---------- me study and get good grades if nintendo was so much funner? Makes sense right? God had plans for me and all. I didn't really believe it, but I was willing to give it the ole boy scout try. I didn't work my ass off like before in classes. My teacher ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:11 AM ---------- teacher thought something was wrong with me. I was lazy. He even convinced me my parents of such nonsense. Can you believe it? I was being blamed. Not that god all of a sudden meant me to be with him more. On the contrary, every time I'd put a woopin' on ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:14 AM ---------- bowser I'd thank the lord for him moving my hands for me. I felt lost. I felt betrayed by god. All this praying to him and I'd gotten the wrath of the teacher and my parents against me. I had my nintendo taken away from me. It was horrible. Why god would ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:18 AM ---------- you do this to me? Because I was playing a trick on you? I was being a bad christian. So I thought, I'll know for sure. I'll deny you god. Then I could be payed back again by you. I'd work my ass off, and deny you god. I was way ahead of that whole ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:23 AM ---------- blasphemers challenge. If only I had written this whole experiment down, I'd be getting the credit over a decade sooner! Instead of all those emo youtube shits. If I denied god and still tried my best, how could I succeed? Rather than get all Cs and Bs ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:27 AM ---------- like before, god would step it up and give me all Fs! But would you believe it? No way, I got all As. My parents were so happy. My teacher said how I did it. It was ME who got his act togetheer. It wasn't I was now a better christian. I worked hard, I got ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:30 AM ---------- good grades. God didn't do a damn thing. This was an amazing concept. It's something that you wouldn't expect to happen. So here I am. I'm happy as a lark. I feel great. I have a wonderful wife. I have a son with two more on the way. God sure turned out ---------- Post added 08-16-10 at 01:34 AM ---------- great for me. Even though the bible says it's the fool who denies god and blasphemy is the one sin that will send you to hell, instead he blesses me anyway. Thank you god. You really are truly great. That's my conversion story to having the atheist faith.

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08-16-2010, 03:00 AM	#2
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,758	You can write the whole text and then press "submit" rather than submitting 3-4 line consequent passages. Makes it easier to follow.

08-16-2010, 03:09 AM	#3
troglodyte Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oz Posts: 408 Original Poster	causey, My cellphone is a POS. It only allows 3-4 lines before filling up the buffer. I only have the cell. Athiests are smart cookies. If All I do is this forum, then a regular internet is a waste. I'd rather spend that money on more cool lenses.

08-16-2010, 10:02 AM - 1 Like	#4
stevewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 773	Originally posted by troglodyte .........That's my conversion story to having the atheist faith. You made the same error of logic - absence of faith is not FAITH. It is quite simply a denial of any of the religious beliefs. Some will say "if you believe in that then you have at least a belief. Wrong again, I have an absence of belief in any of the religious teachings.

08-17-2010, 04:43 AM	#5
Todd K. Guest	Originally posted by stevewig You made the same error of logic - absence of faith is not FAITH. It is quite simply a denial of any of the religious beliefs. Some will say "if you believe in that then you have at least a belief. Wrong again, I have an absence of belief in any of the religious teachings. It seems like your faith would be in your self. It takes a lot of self confidence (or maybe arrogance?) to think you are capable of the infinite understanding and knowledge required to rule out the existence of a God anywhere in or even beyond our infinite universe.

08-17-2010, 05:39 AM	#6
GeneV Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,822	Originally posted by Todd K. It seems like your faith would be in your self. It takes a lot of self confidence (or maybe arrogance?) to think you are capable of the infinite understanding and knowledge required to rule out the existence of a God anywhere in or even beyond our infinite universe. Again, that is the same error in logic repeated over and over again. Absence of belief in God is not a belief in the absence of God. It is just admitting you don't know. That is the least arrogant of all positions.

08-19-2010, 08:37 AM	#7
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,478	What you discovered in your experiment is the Biblical Truth that one reaps what he sows. Your concept of what the Christian faith is was way out of line to begin with. Your hours spent playing Nintendo made you a good game player and nothing more. You got bad grades because you didn't learn anything and put no effort into school work. You blame God because you failed? A couple of hours reading the Proverbs could have saved you a semester of grief. Using that result to abandon faith makes no sense whatsoever. I was never a Lutheran so I don't know what you were taught. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that our lives are "predestined". If you spend time reading it, you will find the opposite to be true.

08-19-2010, 11:43 AM	#8
troglodyte Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oz Posts: 408 Original Poster	Reeftool, I was a kid. I should have been allowed to have fun. Instead of letting me be a kid I was shoved down my throat fire and brimstone. If god knows all, CAN do all, notice can, not does, why would he allow a member of his flock to suffer that ---------- Post added 08-19-10 at 10:49 AM ---------- sort of thing? I know I wouldn't want my name being misrepresented if I were a jealous god. I've since had 21 years to refibe my thoughts. All of which point to no god or is very close to proving no god. Maybe I should make my own youtube videos like that ---------- Post added 08-19-10 at 10:55 AM ---------- amazing atheist.But I'd show rational thought and not the liberal agenda like he does.It's so hard to expresss what I want to say when all I see is four words at a time on this cell.I could explain w/e you say I haven't thought out with no misunderstanding

08-19-2010, 01:09 PM - 1 Like	#9
psychdoc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bham Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 949	First of all I appreciate a honest atheist to someone who 'goes through the motions' for social or other reasons... Having said that -although I dont know Lutheran theology very well- Have you ever considered what Jesus meant when he said that the 'God makes the rains fall on good people and bad people alike'. In those day farming was a common occupation so it was very clear and funny to picture rain not falling on some peoples fields and not on on others. Anyway the point was that Jesus went against the mold of every religious belief including Jewish ones where the prevailing wisdom was that if something bad was happening to you it was because you sinned. Not true. In fact, Jesus said quite the opposite. His followers would be persecuted, they would be following the 'hard and narrow road'. That may not be exactly what is preached in some churches today. But that is what it is. Again the above is not to somehow 'make' you believe in God but just to point out that the reason given had nothing to do with anything Jesus promised his followers. But we do have something in common There is nothing like having a wife you love and kids. Enjoy the kids, they grew up toooo fast. And get all the pics you can. Teens are not going to much fun to take pics of...

08-19-2010, 01:28 PM	#10
clmonk Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Eastern TN Posts: 266	Trog wrote: I was a kid. I should have been allowed to have fun. Instead of letting me be a kid I was shoved down my throat fire and brimstone. If god knows all, CAN do all, notice can, not does, why would he allow a member of his flock to suffer that sort of thing? I never heard fire and brimstone from a Lutheran pulpit...but maybe I just wasn't in the same kind of church as you, but it seems to me you must not have spent much time in the Book if you think God would not want a "member of his flock to suffer that sort of thing." Actions/Inaction has/ve consequences. And why would ANYone assume that God only wants rich, prosperous, perfect leader kinds of people. Ever read the book of Job? Ever looked at how many times Jeremiah was crying? Ever thought about how the prophets died? Ever considered how the disciples lived prior to Christ, during their time with Christ, after Christ died? If you had, you may think this is a GREAT argument for the non-existence of God, but SOMEthing or someONE changed all those men. That same SOMEONE is still in the business of changing men. He changed me. I can't offer scientific proof of His existence, but I KNOW what He did in my life and that is enough for me. God thought enough about me, and others like me, that He sent His own Son. Look what He allowed His Son to experience! Why should we expect that He would make life cushy for us?

08-20-2010, 07:38 AM - 1 Like	#11
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,478	Originally posted by troglodyte Reeftool, I was a kid. I should have been allowed to have fun. Instead of letting me be a kid I was shoved down my throat fire and brimstone. If god knows all, CAN do all, notice can, not does, why would he allow a member of his flock to suffer that ---------- Post added 08-19-10 at 10:49 AM ---------- sort of thing? I know I wouldn't want my name being misrepresented if I were a jealous god. I've since had 21 years to refibe my thoughts. All of which point to no god or is very close to proving no god. Maybe I should make my own youtube videos like that ---------- Post added 08-19-10 at 10:55 AM ---------- amazing atheist.But I'd show rational thought and not the liberal agenda like he does.It's so hard to expresss what I want to say when all I see is four words at a time on this cell.I could explain w/e you say I haven't thought out with no misunderstanding Many people who I have run across through the years who have turned away from the Christian faith have done so because of the actions of other people. There is a strong misconception of what it is to be a Christian. The Gospel is about forgiveness. It's about redemption. As you read the New Testament, the very issue you mention, about God being misrepresented, is the main theme. Jesus was crucified because He was directly opposed to the religious thought of the day. As God Himself, He set out to show the true nature of God and people did not accept His message so they killed Him. In the greatest act of love ever, His death became the punishment for all believers. The Gospel is a very simple message but unfortunately, too many people want to add "conditions" to that gift. Most of the New Testament letters and teachings are fighting "religious" ideas people began adding to the Christian Church. They were wrong 2000 yrs. ago and they are wrong today.

08-20-2010, 09:36 AM	#12
GeneV Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,822	Originally posted by reeftool Many people who I have run across through the years who have turned away from the Christian faith have done so because of the actions of other people. There is a strong misconception of what it is to be a Christian. The Gospel is about forgiveness. It's about redemption. As you read the New Testament, the very issue you mention, about God being misrepresented, is the main theme. Jesus was crucified because He was directly opposed to the religious thought of the day. As God Himself, He set out to show the true nature of God and people did not accept His message so they killed Him. In the greatest act of love ever, His death became the punishment for all believers. The Gospel is a very simple message but unfortunately, too many people want to add "conditions" to that gift. Most of the New Testament letters and teachings are fighting "religious" ideas people began adding to the Christian Church. They were wrong 2000 yrs. ago and they are wrong today. A few books got taken away, too, but that is another discussion.