[gokenin]

list of people no ranking implied

1) James Earl Ray
2) the Rosenbergs
3) Lyndon B Johnson
4) Captain Ernest Medina
5) John W. Taylor & Jesse B. Thomas (missouri compromise creators)
7) aldrich ames
8) Senator Norris Brown
9)j Edgat Hoover
10) General Jeffrey Amherst
11) Colonel John M. Chivington
12) Henry Ford
13) William Rhodes Davis
14) Woodrow Wilson
15) Harry Truman
16) Nathan Bedford Forrest


could probably think of some more but that will do for now

[wildman]

I'm struck by the simple-mindedness of such a list. Plenty of obvious common criminals;

Al Capone, James Earl Ray, Oswald, Bundy etc.

But not a mention of someone like Warren Anderson, Union Carbide CEO at the time of the world's worst industrial disaster in Bhopal, India 1984.

My guess many (most?) of America's worst will never be known because of their power, influence, status and wealth within American society.

[opiet70]

list of people no ranking implied

1) James Earl Ray
2) the Rosenbergs
3) Lyndon B Johnson
4) Captain Ernest Medina
5) John W. Taylor & Jesse B. Thomas (missouri compromise creators)
7) aldrich ames
8) Senator Norris Brown
9)j Edgat Hoover
10) General Jeffrey Amherst
11) Colonel John M. Chivington
12) Henry Ford
13) William Rhodes Davis
14) Woodrow Wilson
15) Harry Truman
16) Nathan Bedford Forrest


could probably think of some more but that will do for now

Why Henry Ford?

[deadwolfbones]

Probably because of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#World_War_II_era

[JeffJS]

Why Henry Ford?

Probably because of this: Henry Ford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to mention...

Battle of the Overpass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Walter P. Reuther Library Search

and this probably didn't help the image...

Ford hunger march, 1932: The workers’ counterattack begins - Newspaper Article @ The Spark

[GeneV]

I'm struck by the simple-mindedness of such a list. Plenty of obvious common criminals;

Al Capone, James Earl Ray, Oswald, Bundy etc.

But not a mention of someone like Warren Anderson, Union Carbide CEO at the time of the world's worst industrial disaster in Bhopal, India 1984.

My guess many (most?) of America's worst will never be known because of their power, influence, status and wealth within American society.

Exactly. As I was alluding in my earlier post, with all the murders and rapists and sociopaths, why is there room on these lists for presidents and politicians whose policies may have been mistaken? The political hatred is both disappointing and disheartening.

BTW, I'm not sure after reading some things about Roy Cohn that both of the Rosenbergs belong on that list. The enabler of Joe McCarthy may have also suborned perjury so that an innocent woman was excecuted.

[gokenin]

Exactly. As I was alluding in my earlier post, with all the murders and rapists and sociopaths, why is there room on these lists for presidents and politicians whose policies may have been mistaken? The political hatred is both disappointing and disheartening.

BTW, I'm not sure after reading some things about Roy Cohn that both of the Rosenbergs belong on that list. The enabler of Joe McCarthy may have also suborned perjury so that an innocent woman was excecuted.

I think if you look at it from a wider perspective then one can argue that your rapists,sociopaths,murders rarely impact as many lives as the Presidents of politicians on the lists. This by no means lessens the impact they have but as far as a national impact it definately lowers them. That was the criteria that I used it isnt so much hate of politicians as much as the overall impact one had in terms of a national influence. So the Rosenbergs it can be argued had more of in impact by adding to the cold war attitudes and all the ramifications of that than Cohn did with his impact on the lives during the House UnAmerican Trials.

[GeneV]

I think if you look at it from a wider perspective then one can argue that your rapists,sociopaths,murders rarely impact as many lives as the Presidents of politicians on the lists. This by no means lessens the impact they have but as far as a national impact it definately lowers them. That was the criteria that I used it isnt so much hate of politicians as much as the overall impact one had in terms of a national influence. So the Rosenbergs it can be argued had more of in impact by adding to the cold war attitudes and all the ramifications of that than Cohn did with his impact on the lives during the House UnAmerican Trials.

Cohn and the Rosenbergs is a bad comparison, because Cohn may, to some extent, have created the Rosenbergs. There is considerable evidence that their conviction was based upon lies which he, as a prosecutor, encouraged.

In any case, if the term "worst figures in American History" were substituted by the term "person with the most detrimental impact on the country" then perhaps some presidents could make it.

[gokenin]

Cohn and the Rosenbergs is a bad comparison, because Cohn may, to some extent, have created the Rosenbergs. There is considerable evidence that their conviction was based upon lies which he, as a prosecutor, encouraged.

In any case, if the term "worst figures in American History" were substituted by the term "person with the most detrimental impact on the country" then perhaps some presidents could make it.

I think you are splitting hairs here but just curious who would make a list of ten people then using your definition?

[GeneV]

I think you are splitting hairs here but just curious who would make a list of ten people then using your definition?

I think that difference is pretty significant, but under that definition, your list has a lot of worthy contenders.

I could think about this more, and I would probably change it, but my modified, off the cuff, ten in no order would be:

James Earl Ray
Lee Harvey Oswald (and/or co-conspirators)
John Wilkes Booth
Earnest Medina (there are so many for the Vietnam war)
John W. Taylor & Jesse B. Thomas (missouri compromise creators)
Roger Taney with help from James Buchanan for Dred Scott v. Sandford.
Nathan Bedford Forrest (if he did in fact found the KKK)
Roy Cohn
Charles "Lucky" Luciano
Rumsfeld/Cheney (for the Iraq war)

[wildman]

In any case, if the term "worst figures in American History" were substituted by the term "person with the most detrimental impact on the country" then perhaps some presidents could make it.

"person[s] with the most detrimental impact on the country"

OK try this:

Justices Kennedy, joined by Roberts, Scalia, Alito; Thomas

RE: Citizens United v Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. 50 (2010) ruling that corporate funding of independent political broadcasts in candidate elections cannot be limited under the First Amendment.

That is that a corporation, in this case, has the same civil rights and constitutional protections as a real individual citizen.

Only time will tell but I think this ruling by these persons may, in the future, meet your definition of "person[s] with the most detrimental impact on the country"

[GeneV]

"person[s] with the most detrimental impact on the country"

OK try this:

Justices Kennedy, joined by Roberts, Scalia, Alito; Thomas

RE: Citizens United v Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. 50 (2010) ruling that corporate funding of independent political broadcasts in candidate elections cannot be limited under the First Amendment.

That is that a corporation, in this case, has the same civil rights and constitutional protections as a real individual citizen.

Only time will tell but I think this ruling by these persons may, in the future, meet your definition of "person[s] with the most detrimental impact on the country"

Or Bush v. Gore. No matter who should have won the 2000 election, from the standpoint of studying the SCOTUS, this was one of the most shameful acts of the court. When the court states flatly, as it has never done before, that the case they are deciding can't be used as precedent for the future, they are admitting that they have stepped outside their role as judges to interpret law based upon universal principles and are instead commanding a result in one particular case.

Nevertheless, I was hesitant to add any figures who are still in office on the list, because their history has not yet played out, and may balance. I wavered on Cheney/Rumsfeld for a similar reason because their time was so recent.

[Parallax]

There are two distinctly different ways to view the Bush v. Gore decision:

1. SCOTUS appointed Bush President

2. SCOTUS prevented the Florida Supreme Court from appointing Gore President.


The irony is that none of it mattered in the overall scheme of things. We, the people, were going to be screwed either way.

[jeffkrol]

There are two distinctly different ways to view the Bush v. Gore decision:

1. SCOTUS appointed Bush President

2. SCOTUS prevented the Florida Supreme Court from appointing Gore President.


The irony is that none of it mattered in the overall scheme of things. We, the people, were going to be screwed either way.

Hmmm.................

[GeneV]

There are two distinctly different ways to view the Bush v. Gore decision:

1. SCOTUS appointed Bush President

2. SCOTUS prevented the Florida Supreme Court from appointing Gore President.


The irony is that none of it mattered in the overall scheme of things. We, the people, were going to be screwed either way.

Or,

3. The SCOTUS intervened to allow the Florida Secretary of State, co chair of the Bush Campaign in Florida, to appoint Bush president.