Estate tax "your picking on me"

jeffkrol · 09-11-2010, 05:58 AM

What a bunch of rich whiners........
Showdown Over Bush Cuts Revives Estate Tax Fight : NPR
Hmmmm.... already 10 mil in debt.

Quote:

Bob Bonifas started his company 42 years ago. He says he has spent three decades and paid lots of accountants to plan so that his children can continue to run his $33-million-a-year security business after he passes away.

"I think I've planned enough that it would probably survive, but it would still have to [take] a major loan," he says. "Maybe $10 million or something. Those are big numbers if you've already got $10 million worth of debt."...........In Bonifas' case, that means he's been moving money into trust funds and gifts to his children and grandchildren. But he says doing so is an unfair burden to him. He thinks there should be no estate tax, since he pays income taxes and the business pays various other taxes.

anyone got that teeny tiny violin..........
Some perspective:

Quote:

Estate taxes affect a small segment of the wealthiest Americans. Last year, only a quarter of a percent of those who died paid any.

Quote:

Abigail Disney benefited greatly from a big inheritance but believes the estate tax should come back, at least to their levels last year.

"I take this position because I love my country," says Disney, the granddaughter of Roy Disney, who helped build the Walt Disney Co. empire. "And the fact is, my grandfather could never have built his business anywhere else."

Disney, a filmmaker and philanthropist, spent a lot of time shooting a film in Liberia. She says there, unlike the United States, there are no safe roads or schools and therefore no safe investments. And she says those who make money in a secure society like the U.S. also owe the society a debt.

Now there's some food for thought.........

Quote:

She joined a group of wealthy individuals called United for a Fair Economy in part, she says, because she felt wealth is fundamentally unfair.

"It's absolutely an accident of my birth. And that's sort of the point — that there shouldn't be dynasties built around the simple good luck of being born related to somebody very wealthy," she says.

Quote:

Roberton Williams is a fellow at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. He says last year the estate tax hit the fewest number of people in the history of the tax. But the tax also creates a huge incentive for the wealthy to give to charities.

Without any estate tax, Williams says, charitable giving could fall by up to a third.

imtheguy · 09-11-2010, 12:24 PM

Would you really prefer the Fed to invest the money instead of the hiers? They sure won't be cutting YOUR taxes just because of the reinstatement of estate taxing.

[gawd, what the hell am I doing posting in this section??? ]

GeneV · 09-11-2010, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by imtheguy

Would you really prefer the Fed to invest the money instead of the hiers? They sure won't be cutting YOUR taxes just because of the reinstatement of estate taxing.

[gawd, what the hell am I doing posting in this section??? ]

Since you did decide to post in this section, would you rather tax live, productive people or should the government continue to run on borrowing? If you use the word "spending" in your answer, please point out where the government will find spending cuts to equal the deficit.

Parallax · 09-13-2010, 05:12 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jeffkrol (quoting original article)

Estate taxes affect a small segment of the wealthiest Americans. Last year, only a quarter of a percent of those who died paid any.

First off, not one person has ever paid taxes after dieing. Death carries a 100% tax exemption. (yeah, I know what it meant. More sloppy journalism.)

Second, If he is still 10 million dollars in debt on a 33 million/year business after 30 years, I think he needs a new business plan, and has needed one for a long time.

jeffkrol · 09-13-2010, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by Parallax

First off, not one person has ever paid taxes after dieing. Death carries a 100% tax exemption. (yeah, I know what it meant. More sloppy journalism.)

Yes the estate pays.........

Originally posted by Parallax

Second, If he is still 10 million dollars in debt on a 33 million/year business after 30 years, I think he needs a new business plan, and has needed one for a long time.

That was part of my point............. hence the small violin.......
Not to mention "owing" in a business is rarely the same as you and I "owing"...
He may in fact owe that to himself... not unheard of.
OR the assets/cash/equities may be there to pay it off but the "loan" has good terms and in the long run it may be beneficial not to use "your own" cash.....
Rumor has it

the rich rarely pay off their house since they can use that money to generate more money.... and get some write offs in the process..funny......

GeneV · 09-13-2010, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by Parallax

First off, not one person has ever paid taxes after dieing. Death carries a 100% tax exemption. (yeah, I know what it meant. More sloppy journalism.)

Second, If he is still 10 million dollars in debt on a 33 million/year business after 30 years, I think he needs a new business plan, and has needed one for a long time.

Not that sloppy. From a legal standpoint, the estate is considered the continuation of the dead person. The end effect is, of course, on the persons who will receive money from the decedent.

Nesster · 09-13-2010, 07:53 AM

... so I suppose the Koch sons were royally screwed when their dad died...

I have less sympathy for trust-fund kids who may or may not be interested in carrying on the family business... and more likely are apt to spend a lot of it up their nose, or in gallivanting at 'charity' parties, or doing the sort of 'cultural' stuff that maybe enriches some sub-section of society as a whole. These ingrates are far worse than any welfare queens: their inheritances are non-performing for the rest of us, and permit them to live well while suppressing the job markets with their volunteerism or small salary requirements. Further, they distort the housing market due to the ability to out-compete regular people and thus increase costs.

The Disney scion's opinion is nice to hear, from someone in a group that's typically too isolated from economic realities, and too self-absorbed to remember any debt to society they may have. After all Big Daddy may have exploited workers, improperly influenced governments, and engaged in all sorts of chicanery - and maybe even created jobs! Except for a few like the Koch brothers, too many become society's drones, using up wealth that could be put to a much better use.

The estate tax saves us from these fools, and boo hoo, instead of $10mill or $100mill, they only have 7 or 70.

mikemike · 09-13-2010, 09:13 AM

The ultrarich do have a second amendment solution to this estate tax problem this year.

GeneV · 09-13-2010, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by mikemike

The ultrarich do have a second amendment solution to this estate tax problem this year.

I wonder how many old billionaires will pass on due to the pressures of this economy.

Parallax · 09-13-2010, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

............... in the long run it may be beneficial not to use "your own" cash...........

Reminds me of the farmer that went to the bank for a loan..
The banker said "we can't loan you any more money", and reminded him of several disasters in recent years. Every time the banker mentioned a catastrophe that wiped the farmer out the farmer shrugged and said; "Coulda been worse."
The banker said "I don't know how your outlook can be that positive after loosing money so many years in a row".
The farmer said "Well, it could have been worse. I could have lost my money instead of the bank's".

It worked for Donald Trump, too.

GeneV · 09-13-2010, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Parallax

Reminds me of the farmer that went to the bank for a loan..
The banker said "we can't loan you any more money", and reminded him of several disasters in recent years. Every time the banker mentioned a catastrophe that wiped the farmer out the farmer shrugged and said; "Coulda been worse."
The banker said "I don't know how your outlook can be that positive after loosing money so many years in a row".
The farmer said "Well, it could have been worse. I could have lost my money instead of the bank's".

It worked for Donald Trump, too.

I wanted to pay cash for my wife's car last year. However, the financing was at 0% interest. It is kind of hard to justify taking the money even out of savings at 1% interest for that.

We saved up the money to pay off our house. We did the math on paying off a home, and it is the same thing. 4% tax deductible mortgage interest is almost free, because I can find something to earn that difference even in this market.

I could go on, but we live in an economy that does not encourage anyone or any business to be debt free.

reeftool · 09-13-2010, 10:55 AM

The large amount of debt he has is most likely a tax write off and you can bet that his company wouldn't have it if he wasn't getting some kind of deduction. I don't feel sorry for him in the least. I'm a few weeks short of 60 and still have 9 years left on the mortgage, 8 years left on the parents loans I took out for my kids college education and barely enough in my 401K to buy a car, much less retire. My kids will have to make their own way in this world which is how it should be. I gave my kids a far better start in life than I had. I was on the road at 17, traveling around and trying to just survive.

GeneV · 09-13-2010, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by reeftool

The large amount of debt he has is most likely a tax write off and you can bet that his company wouldn't have it if he wasn't getting some kind of deduction. I don't feel sorry for him in the least. I'm a few weeks short of 60 and still have 9 years left on the mortgage, 8 years left on the parents loans I took out for my kids college education and barely enough in my 401K to buy a car, much less retire. My kids will have to make their own way in this world which is how it should be. I gave my kids a far better start in life than I had. I was on the road at 17, traveling around and trying to just survive.

That's part of the problem. The tax and SEC laws really discourage a public corporation from building up a stash of cash to make a big purchase. Not only will you be taxed, but some raider will come snatch your company away and liquidate it.

09-11-2010, 05:58 AM	#1
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Estate tax "your picking on me" What a bunch of rich whiners........ Showdown Over Bush Cuts Revives Estate Tax Fight : NPR Hmmmm.... already 10 mil in debt. Quote: Bob Bonifas started his company 42 years ago. He says he has spent three decades and paid lots of accountants to plan so that his children can continue to run his $33-million-a-year security business after he passes away. "I think I've planned enough that it would probably survive, but it would still have to [take] a major loan," he says. "Maybe $10 million or something. Those are big numbers if you've already got $10 million worth of debt."...........In Bonifas' case, that means he's been moving money into trust funds and gifts to his children and grandchildren. But he says doing so is an unfair burden to him. He thinks there should be no estate tax, since he pays income taxes and the business pays various other taxes. anyone got that teeny tiny violin.......... Some perspective: Quote: Estate taxes affect a small segment of the wealthiest Americans. Last year, only a quarter of a percent of those who died paid any. Quote: Abigail Disney benefited greatly from a big inheritance but believes the estate tax should come back, at least to their levels last year. "I take this position because I love my country," says Disney, the granddaughter of Roy Disney, who helped build the Walt Disney Co. empire. "And the fact is, my grandfather could never have built his business anywhere else." Disney, a filmmaker and philanthropist, spent a lot of time shooting a film in Liberia. She says there, unlike the United States, there are no safe roads or schools and therefore no safe investments. And she says those who make money in a secure society like the U.S. also owe the society a debt. Now there's some food for thought......... Quote: She joined a group of wealthy individuals called United for a Fair Economy in part, she says, because she felt wealth is fundamentally unfair. "It's absolutely an accident of my birth. And that's sort of the point — that there shouldn't be dynasties built around the simple good luck of being born related to somebody very wealthy," she says. Quote: Roberton Williams is a fellow at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. He says last year the estate tax hit the fewest number of people in the history of the tax. But the tax also creates a huge incentive for the wealthy to give to charities. Without any estate tax, Williams says, charitable giving could fall by up to a third.

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09-11-2010, 12:24 PM	#2
imtheguy Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Virginia Beach Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,950	Would you really prefer the Fed to invest the money instead of the hiers? They sure won't be cutting YOUR taxes just because of the reinstatement of estate taxing. [gawd, what the hell am I doing posting in this section??? ]

09-11-2010, 01:30 PM	#3
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by imtheguy Would you really prefer the Fed to invest the money instead of the hiers? They sure won't be cutting YOUR taxes just because of the reinstatement of estate taxing. [gawd, what the hell am I doing posting in this section??? ] Since you did decide to post in this section, would you rather tax live, productive people or should the government continue to run on borrowing? If you use the word "spending" in your answer, please point out where the government will find spending cuts to equal the deficit.

09-13-2010, 05:12 AM - 1 Like	#4
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	Originally posted by jeffkrol (quoting original article) Estate taxes affect a small segment of the wealthiest Americans. Last year, only a quarter of a percent of those who died paid any. First off, not one person has ever paid taxes after dieing. Death carries a 100% tax exemption. (yeah, I know what it meant. More sloppy journalism.) Second, If he is still 10 million dollars in debt on a 33 million/year business after 30 years, I think he needs a new business plan, and has needed one for a long time.

09-13-2010, 05:38 AM	#5
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434 Original Poster	Originally posted by Parallax First off, not one person has ever paid taxes after dieing. Death carries a 100% tax exemption. (yeah, I know what it meant. More sloppy journalism.) Yes the estate pays......... Originally posted by Parallax Second, If he is still 10 million dollars in debt on a 33 million/year business after 30 years, I think he needs a new business plan, and has needed one for a long time. That was part of my point............. hence the small violin....... Not to mention "owing" in a business is rarely the same as you and I "owing"... He may in fact owe that to himself... not unheard of. OR the assets/cash/equities may be there to pay it off but the "loan" has good terms and in the long run it may be beneficial not to use "your own" cash..... Rumor has it the rich rarely pay off their house since they can use that money to generate more money.... and get some write offs in the process..funny......

09-13-2010, 05:53 AM	#6
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Parallax First off, not one person has ever paid taxes after dieing. Death carries a 100% tax exemption. (yeah, I know what it meant. More sloppy journalism.) Second, If he is still 10 million dollars in debt on a 33 million/year business after 30 years, I think he needs a new business plan, and has needed one for a long time. Not that sloppy. From a legal standpoint, the estate is considered the continuation of the dead person. The end effect is, of course, on the persons who will receive money from the decedent.

09-13-2010, 07:53 AM	#7
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	... so I suppose the Koch sons were royally screwed when their dad died... I have less sympathy for trust-fund kids who may or may not be interested in carrying on the family business... and more likely are apt to spend a lot of it up their nose, or in gallivanting at 'charity' parties, or doing the sort of 'cultural' stuff that maybe enriches some sub-section of society as a whole. These ingrates are far worse than any welfare queens: their inheritances are non-performing for the rest of us, and permit them to live well while suppressing the job markets with their volunteerism or small salary requirements. Further, they distort the housing market due to the ability to out-compete regular people and thus increase costs. The Disney scion's opinion is nice to hear, from someone in a group that's typically too isolated from economic realities, and too self-absorbed to remember any debt to society they may have. After all Big Daddy may have exploited workers, improperly influenced governments, and engaged in all sorts of chicanery - and maybe even created jobs! Except for a few like the Koch brothers, too many become society's drones, using up wealth that could be put to a much better use. The estate tax saves us from these fools, and boo hoo, instead of $10mill or $100mill, they only have 7 or 70.

09-13-2010, 09:13 AM	#8
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	The ultrarich do have a second amendment solution to this estate tax problem this year.

09-13-2010, 09:54 AM	#9
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by mikemike The ultrarich do have a second amendment solution to this estate tax problem this year. I wonder how many old billionaires will pass on due to the pressures of this economy.

09-13-2010, 10:14 AM	#10
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,333	Originally posted by jeffkrol ............... in the long run it may be beneficial not to use "your own" cash........... Reminds me of the farmer that went to the bank for a loan.. The banker said "we can't loan you any more money", and reminded him of several disasters in recent years. Every time the banker mentioned a catastrophe that wiped the farmer out the farmer shrugged and said; "Coulda been worse." The banker said "I don't know how your outlook can be that positive after loosing money so many years in a row". The farmer said "Well, it could have been worse. I could have lost my money instead of the bank's". It worked for Donald Trump, too.

09-13-2010, 10:38 AM	#11
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Parallax Reminds me of the farmer that went to the bank for a loan.. The banker said "we can't loan you any more money", and reminded him of several disasters in recent years. Every time the banker mentioned a catastrophe that wiped the farmer out the farmer shrugged and said; "Coulda been worse." The banker said "I don't know how your outlook can be that positive after loosing money so many years in a row". The farmer said "Well, it could have been worse. I could have lost my money instead of the bank's". It worked for Donald Trump, too. I wanted to pay cash for my wife's car last year. However, the financing was at 0% interest. It is kind of hard to justify taking the money even out of savings at 1% interest for that. We saved up the money to pay off our house. We did the math on paying off a home, and it is the same thing. 4% tax deductible mortgage interest is almost free, because I can find something to earn that difference even in this market. I could go on, but we live in an economy that does not encourage anyone or any business to be debt free.

09-13-2010, 10:55 AM	#12
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,555	The large amount of debt he has is most likely a tax write off and you can bet that his company wouldn't have it if he wasn't getting some kind of deduction. I don't feel sorry for him in the least. I'm a few weeks short of 60 and still have 9 years left on the mortgage, 8 years left on the parents loans I took out for my kids college education and barely enough in my 401K to buy a car, much less retire. My kids will have to make their own way in this world which is how it should be. I gave my kids a far better start in life than I had. I was on the road at 17, traveling around and trying to just survive.

09-13-2010, 11:47 AM	#13
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by reeftool The large amount of debt he has is most likely a tax write off and you can bet that his company wouldn't have it if he wasn't getting some kind of deduction. I don't feel sorry for him in the least. I'm a few weeks short of 60 and still have 9 years left on the mortgage, 8 years left on the parents loans I took out for my kids college education and barely enough in my 401K to buy a car, much less retire. My kids will have to make their own way in this world which is how it should be. I gave my kids a far better start in life than I had. I was on the road at 17, traveling around and trying to just survive. That's part of the problem. The tax and SEC laws really discourage a public corporation from building up a stash of cash to make a big purchase. Not only will you be taxed, but some raider will come snatch your company away and liquidate it.