The bitchin and moaning has gone to far !

Pablom · 09-26-2010, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Kirivon

Amen!

I just recently started reading the boards again because of the K-5, but it's been almost a year since I stopped. The main reason I quit reading the forums was because of the constant FF whining

considering the reason you stopped reading the forums, this must be the worst time to return

Ratmagiclady · 09-26-2010, 12:21 PM

Eh, I dunno, here. It can be fun to speculate, but it does seem this negativit brigade appears whenever there's new stuff being announced. (Sometimes I wonder if some aren't paid posters for other brands or something.

Does seem that Pentax really needs some better communication about what they're doing and what they're actually open to doing, seems people are a bit tense.

Kirivon · 09-26-2010, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

A perfect example is the Nikon 24-70mm for the full frame. That lens is $1699.00 and basically the same speed and FOV of the DA*16-50mm that sells for $799 or so.

Not to start an argument or anything but, kind of a bad example. The Nikkor 24-70 is, imo, the best FF normal zoom on the market and the DA*16-50 is available for Nikon through Tokina for $550. Granted you lose weather sealing and SDM with the Tokina, but still it's a large part of the reason I might switch to Nikon.

I've wanted a DA*16-50 for a long time, but could never justify it due to the issues it had. But, with the DA*50-135 being my favorite lens by far, I got to thinking I'd sell my FA77, DA16-45 and K-7 to pick up a 16-50 and K-5 down the road. But, with a 10-17, 16-50, sigma 30 1.4, pentax 50 1.4, and 50-135 lineup it occurred to me that I could sell all my lenses and pick up the same ones in Nikon mount for no cost out of pocket. The only lens not identical optically would be the 50, which is currently my least favorite, least used lens.

Ironically, it wasn't dissatisfaction with Pentax that started this whole train of thought, in fact the opposite. When my friend linked me the D7000 I couldn't have care less, but when I saw the K-5 I was super hyped! Then I realized that the two cameras had nearly identical specs/price points.. So now I'm in a situation where I have no reason to switch systems, but for the first time, no reason not to switch.

Sorry for being off topic. I wanted to share my dilemma, but I didn't want to post it in some of the other threads and seem like I was adding to the Pentax-bash-fest.

Originally posted by Pablom

considering the reason you stopped reading the forums, this must be the worst time to return

Haha, you may have a point there! I'm excited out of my mind for the K-5, though, so I'll bear with it for any shred of new info that comes out.

traderdrew · 09-26-2010, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

Eh, I dunno, here. It can be fun to speculate, but it does seem this negativit brigade appears whenever there's new stuff being announced. (Sometimes I wonder if some aren't paid posters for other brands or something.

I was thinking it could be a few people stirring the pot just to have some fun. You know, just post something that will stir up emotions in in some disgruntled people and watch the new posts come in.

It doesn't help when someone says Pentax stated at Photokina that the US market is a nothing.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/115076-pentax-photokin...ml#post1196712

I would think all markets matter from a business sense. Whatever!

And the FF vs APS-C debate kind of had me convinced until I did some research outside of this forum. Do an internet search for "FF vs APS-C". Not only that, I have taken photos next to guys with $7,000 to $8,500.00 lenses and many of them told me they don't use FF and they don't want one. They do say it is the lens that makes the difference.

Last edited by traderdrew; 09-26-2010 at 01:23 PM. Reason: adding more info

jct us101 · 09-26-2010, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

I’ve been with this forum a long time, and i’ve seen this all before, with the k10, the k20, the k7 and now the k5. bitching, moaning, whining, complaining. but personally, I think, now its just gotten down right pathetic. I don’t actually share most of my photography (mostly local journalism) so I don’t hang around the actual photographic section much, so bash me if you will for missing the best part of the forum, but the way I see it, this whole place is getting out of hand. especially when moderators act like spoiled little kids. I honestly don’t think I will be spending much if any more time here. (not that anyone cares) see ya folks, the battery in my k7 needs charging and my Leica M3 is calling!

Atta boy!

**robbiec** · 09-26-2010, 02:04 PM

I've been here for just under 2 years now and have learnt an awful lot from the guys and girls here. But this afternoon I was reading the various hot topics of interest and must admit to a bad taste in my mouth and I was looking for a way to leave this forum (I believe the only way is a pm to Adam with such a request) until I said to myself "why should I let a small section of fairly vociferous rumour mongerers ruin my experience of this community"? .
It used to be that we'd argue over whether or not a DA40 f2.4 was better than the FA43 f1.9 or was the DA*55 f1.4 worth the extra over the FA50 f1.4 and then someone would come along and show us a shot taken with a €50 K55 and everybody would shutup and applaud the skill of the poster with the K55!
Now it has descended to a level that I am personally uncomfortable with. We have members proclaiming that they will be leaving unless such or such a body is priced at this amount or that a competitors cheaper option is going to annihilate the new flagship model based on specs alone, strangest thing is that a lot of these members have posted very few images or have been members for a long time. Of course we have the usual 'we need the fabled FF or Pentax will die', usual bull, I suspect half of these people looking for the FF model are running around with a KM and kit lens... bah!
Enough is enough, specs and charts are all well and good but the end result is what matters, if you can take an image with that you are happy with or in some cases proud enough to display to others is that not what we are all aiming for?
Some here need to shut up and grow up or this community which was envied by others will slowly degenerate and die.
Now i'm off to save up for a FA31 rather faster than I expected and invite Rparmar and JohnK (rather better photographers than me and very nice people to boot) to lunch as promised when I last met up with them. That was the way this forum used to be, 3 months or so ago....
ps Rep for the OP for starting a sensible post!

GoneToTheDogs · 09-27-2010, 08:11 PM

Your photo of the cat on top of the fence with the menacing dog underneath was priceless! Very cool! What limited lens was used for this shot?

-Matt

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 09-27-2010, 09:25 PM

It is not only that the moaning, bitching, complaining ... sometimes approaching some sort of introspective pubertal rage... appears to increase at the forum...as far as I am concerned there are less reason for these reactions than a few years ago, which makes the moaning sounds even more absurd.

From a situation where Pentax went too late into digital and when it felt like their survival may have been dependent on every single new model, where the *istDS and the K10D bought them time, but with only two DSLRs in production in parallell, delayed lens releases, SDM problems, AF problems etc, wholes in the lens line...

Well, many of these problems remains, but look at what has been comming out of the Pentax labs in little bit more than a year: K-7, K-x, severall lenses updated to WR, 645D (finally!) with the first new 645 lens in ages, K-r, new WR lenses (and the return of the FA35) and K-5 with super-high ISO and presumably a breakthrough in AF.

There are godies for the newbies, including an inexpensive prime, but how can people claim that Pentax now only care about the lower end of the market, when they in a short time released cameras like the 645D and the K-5??? In my eyes they have not been as ambitious on the camera side since the original 645, the 67 and the LX were in production at the same time.

Sure, there are some more lenses I'd like to see, and some other stuff, but seriously, I didn't think they had the R&D capacity any longer that they have demonstrated by their releases the last one and a half years.

Give them a break! Now they are done with these products, and they will for sure not stop working. More toys/tools will come. Hoya prefere to keep us in the dark (except with the 645D that had been in the pipelines for soo long that secrets was impossible), compared to the old Pentax strategy. I can live with that. I like pleasent surprises!

And while I'd hate to see the FA limiteds dissapear, it is not the end of the world, something will replace them, and I'm not convinced that it will happen (but I'll never forgive them for stop making the A* lenses!

).

Regarding all rumors about this or that lens being out of production. Stop visualising a lens factory like a Ford car factory. There isn't a continuous line of lenses rolling out of the factory door on a long conveyor belt. Especially not for a small player like Pentax. They are made in batches. Once they run out of a lens, they make more. We will also see lenses gone and then reincarnated in a new shape. DFA100WR macro was a DFA100 maro was a FA100 macro was an F100 macro, DA40ltd was a M40 pancake, FA77ltd was an A*85 (terrible that they downgraded it from f1.4 to f1.8, right?), M85/2 was a Super Takumar 85/1.9 just to name some exemples, and most recently FA35 became DA35. Excellent lens designs are likely to survive in some shape, at least if there is a market. Sometimes even when there isn't.

But to sum up this ranting: Increasing bitching is bad enough, but increasing bitching while things in reality looks better for Pentax than in a long time is just absurd.

johnmflores · 09-27-2010, 10:21 PM

I also find that lobbing in a unicorn picture every now and then distracts them - if only momentarily. I'm hoping that some start to realize that the unicorn stands for magic, purity, and "this thread has gotten so ridiculous and infantile that there's a unicorn in it."

**Ash** · 09-27-2010, 10:44 PM

Nah, I'm done with unicorns.
But how about a light-hearted pic for all those office workers out there:

Days at work:

**robbiec** · 09-28-2010, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by Rottie*Lover

Your photo of the cat on top of the fence with the menacing dog underneath was priceless! Very cool! What limited lens was used for this shot?

-Matt

That cat is more menacing than the dog. She injured our cat quite badly with some bites that got infected, hence Rufus (the dog) is fairly aggressive with this particular visitor. Since I raised the grass bed by a foot or so over the summer we have not seen that cat on our fence

I used a 43 & K20D @ ISO800 if I remember correctly. Pure grab shot!

reeftool · 09-28-2010, 09:16 AM

I don't even look much in the Rumors section much anymore. It's silly. Pentax has said repeatedly that there is no FF camera coming but the stupid speculation goes on forever and ever. Lately, it's been whining about the new 35/2.4 lens. It isn't fast enough. Nothing about IQ or whether they need a lens that fast. Some people just want specs they can mouth off about but never use. I can honestly say that over half of the fancy features my now obsolete K10D has have never been used and never will be used.

the swede · 09-28-2010, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

But to sum up this ranting: Increasing bitching is bad enough, but increasing bitching while things in reality looks better for Pentax than in a long time is just absurd.

+1

Somewhere i understand that people get angry when lenses stop being made. Like the rumor that FA Limited would be discontinued.

People need to get over it and look forward. There is always a chance of getting lenses on the aftermarket. And the FA Limiteds will probably be on the market for a very long time, because they were/are so popular and exist in rather large amounts.

What do we have today? We have a great DA Limited line!!! They are small, extremly well built, great optical performance and created for the digital sensor. And what the other brands simply DO NOT HAVE. They should be celebrated more i think.

Originally posted by reeftool

I don't even look much in the Rumors section much anymore. It's silly. Pentax has said repeatedly that there is no FF camera coming but the stupid speculation goes on forever and ever. Lately, it's been whining about the new 35/2.4 lens. It isn't fast enough. Nothing about IQ or whether they need a lens that fast. Some people just want specs they can mouth off about but never use. I can honestly say that over half of the fancy features my now obsolete K10D has have never been used and never will be used.

+1

its silly.....the 35/2,4 is great! We have seen it from snap shots, wait until they get out in the nature/streets etc etc. It IS a great lens!

GeneV · 09-28-2010, 11:53 AM

I do agree that the FF moaning is really getting tiresome....so I just don't read it. Others should do the same. If some people feel the need to make their desires known, then so be it.

I have my FF Pentax--5 of them. If I decide they need to be digital, I know where Canon and Nikon are sold as well. Right now, it is not even on the radar.

By the way, I just ripped through >10,000 actuations on my K-x after 6 months. It took more than twice that long to get there on my K20d. Pentax knows how to make a new camera model that gets me out taking photos.

mikemike · 09-28-2010, 12:08 PM

I think Falk's "open letter to pentax thread" was the beginning of the downfall of the news and rumors section. It got mod bumped to general talk and the FF mongers got up in arms about that. After hissy fit, stomping their feet, and holding their breath until they were blue in the face, the thread was moved back to N&R. Since then civilized discussion has been drowned out by the group whine sessions.

I still read there but it is painful and isn't even worth posting in most of the time.

09-26-2010, 02:04 PM	#21
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	I've been here for just under 2 years now and have learnt an awful lot from the guys and girls here. But this afternoon I was reading the various hot topics of interest and must admit to a bad taste in my mouth and I was looking for a way to leave this forum (I believe the only way is a pm to Adam with such a request) until I said to myself "why should I let a small section of fairly vociferous rumour mongerers ruin my experience of this community"? . It used to be that we'd argue over whether or not a DA40 f2.4 was better than the FA43 f1.9 or was the DA55 f1.4 worth the extra over the FA50 f1.4 and then someone would come along and show us a shot taken with a €50 K55 and everybody would shutup and applaud the skill of the poster with the K55! Now it has descended to a level that I am personally uncomfortable with. We have members proclaiming that they will be leaving unless such or such a body is priced at this amount or that a competitors cheaper option is going to annihilate the new flagship model based on specs alone, strangest thing is that a lot of these members have posted very few images or have been members for a long time. Of course we have the usual 'we need the fabled FF or Pentax will die', usual bull, I suspect half of these people looking for the FF model are running around with a KM and kit lens... bah! Enough is enough, specs and charts are all well and good but the end result is what matters, if you can take an image with that you are happy with or in some cases proud enough to display to others is that not what we are all aiming for? Some here need to shut up and grow up or this community which was envied by others will slowly degenerate and die. Now i'm off to save up for a FA31 rather faster than I expected and invite Rparmar and JohnK (rather better photographers than me and very nice people to boot) to lunch as promised when I last met up with them. That was the way this forum used to be, 3 months or so ago.... ps Rep for the OP for starting a sensible post! Last edited by robbiec; 09-26-2010 at 02:06 PM. Reason: Rep for the OP for starting a sensible post!*

09-27-2010, 09:25 PM	#23
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	It is not only that the moaning, bitching, complaining ... sometimes approaching some sort of introspective pubertal rage... appears to increase at the forum...as far as I am concerned there are less reason for these reactions than a few years ago, which makes the moaning sounds even more absurd. From a situation where Pentax went too late into digital and when it felt like their survival may have been dependent on every single new model, where the istDS and the K10D bought them time, but with only two DSLRs in production in parallell, delayed lens releases, SDM problems, AF problems etc, wholes in the lens line... Well, many of these problems remains, but look at what has been comming out of the Pentax labs in little bit more than a year: K-7, K-x, severall lenses updated to WR, 645D* (finally!) with the first new 645 lens in ages, K-r, new WR lenses (and the return of the FA35) and K-5 with super-high ISO and presumably a breakthrough in AF. There are godies for the newbies, including an inexpensive prime, but how can people claim that Pentax now only care about the lower end of the market, when they in a short time released cameras like the 645D and the K-5??? In my eyes they have not been as ambitious on the camera side since the original 645, the 67 and the LX were in production at the same time. Sure, there are some more lenses I'd like to see, and some other stuff, but seriously, I didn't think they had the R&D capacity any longer that they have demonstrated by their releases the last one and a half years. Give them a break! Now they are done with these products, and they will for sure not stop working. More toys/tools will come. Hoya prefere to keep us in the dark (except with the 645D that had been in the pipelines for soo long that secrets was impossible), compared to the old Pentax strategy. I can live with that. I like pleasent surprises! And while I'd hate to see the FA limiteds dissapear, it is not the end of the world, something will replace them, and I'm not convinced that it will happen (but I'll never forgive them for stop making the A* lenses!). Regarding all rumors about this or that lens being out of production. Stop visualising a lens factory like a Ford car factory. There isn't a continuous line of lenses rolling out of the factory door on a long conveyor belt. Especially not for a small player like Pentax. They are made in batches. Once they run out of a lens, they make more. We will also see lenses gone and then reincarnated in a new shape. DFA100WR macro was a DFA100 maro was a FA100 macro was an F100 macro, DA40ltd was a M40 pancake, FA77ltd was an A85 (terrible that they downgraded it from f1.4 to f1.8, right?), M85/2 was a Super Takumar 85/1.9 just to name some exemples, and most recently FA35 became DA35. Excellent lens designs are likely to survive in some shape, at least if there is a market. Sometimes even when there isn't. But to sum up this ranting: Increasing bitching is bad enough, but increasing bitching while things in reality looks better for Pentax than in a long time is just absurd. Last edited by Douglas_of_Sweden; 09-28-2010 at 03:48 PM. Reason: bad english*

09-26-2010, 12:17 PM	#16
Pablom Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Usa Posts: 1,940	Originally posted by Kirivon Amen! I just recently started reading the boards again because of the K-5, but it's been almost a year since I stopped. The main reason I quit reading the forums was because of the constant FF whining considering the reason you stopped reading the forums, this must be the worst time to return

09-26-2010, 12:21 PM	#17
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Eh, I dunno, here. It can be fun to speculate, but it does seem this negativit brigade appears whenever there's new stuff being announced. (Sometimes I wonder if some aren't paid posters for other brands or something. Does seem that Pentax really needs some better communication about what they're doing and what they're actually open to doing, seems people are a bit tense.

09-26-2010, 12:25 PM	#18
Kirivon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 173	Originally posted by Peter Zack A perfect example is the Nikon 24-70mm for the full frame. That lens is $1699.00 and basically the same speed and FOV of the DA16-50mm that sells for $799 or so. Not to start an argument or anything but, kind of a bad example. The Nikkor 24-70 is, imo, the best FF normal zoom on the market and the DA16-50 is available for Nikon through Tokina for $550. Granted you lose weather sealing and SDM with the Tokina, but still it's a large part of the reason I might switch to Nikon. I've wanted a DA16-50 for a long time, but could never justify it due to the issues it had. But, with the DA50-135 being my favorite lens by far, I got to thinking I'd sell my FA77, DA16-45 and K-7 to pick up a 16-50 and K-5 down the road. But, with a 10-17, 16-50, sigma 30 1.4, pentax 50 1.4, and 50-135 lineup it occurred to me that I could sell all my lenses and pick up the same ones in Nikon mount for no cost out of pocket. The only lens not identical optically would be the 50, which is currently my least favorite, least used lens. Ironically, it wasn't dissatisfaction with Pentax that started this whole train of thought, in fact the opposite. When my friend linked me the D7000 I couldn't have care less, but when I saw the K-5 I was super hyped! Then I realized that the two cameras had nearly identical specs/price points.. So now I'm in a situation where I have no reason to switch systems, but for the first time, no reason not to switch. Sorry for being off topic. I wanted to share my dilemma, but I didn't want to post it in some of the other threads and seem like I was adding to the Pentax-bash-fest. Originally posted by Pablom considering the reason you stopped reading the forums, this must be the worst time to return Haha, you may have a point there! I'm excited out of my mind for the K-5, though, so I'll bear with it for any shred of new info that comes out.

09-26-2010, 12:39 PM	#19
traderdrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 640	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady Eh, I dunno, here. It can be fun to speculate, but it does seem this negativit brigade appears whenever there's new stuff being announced. (Sometimes I wonder if some aren't paid posters for other brands or something. I was thinking it could be a few people stirring the pot just to have some fun. You know, just post something that will stir up emotions in in some disgruntled people and watch the new posts come in. It doesn't help when someone says Pentax stated at Photokina that the US market is a nothing. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/115076-pentax-photokin...ml#post1196712 I would think all markets matter from a business sense. Whatever! And the FF vs APS-C debate kind of had me convinced until I did some research outside of this forum. Do an internet search for "FF vs APS-C". Not only that, I have taken photos next to guys with $7,000 to $8,500.00 lenses and many of them told me they don't use FF and they don't want one. They do say it is the lens that makes the difference. Last edited by traderdrew; 09-26-2010 at 01:23 PM. Reason: adding more info

09-26-2010, 01:02 PM	#20
jct us101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Rohnert Park, CA Posts: 3,793	Originally posted by séamuis I’ve been with this forum a long time, and i’ve seen this all before, with the k10, the k20, the k7 and now the k5. bitching, moaning, whining, complaining. but personally, I think, now its just gotten down right pathetic. I don’t actually share most of my photography (mostly local journalism) so I don’t hang around the actual photographic section much, so bash me if you will for missing the best part of the forum, but the way I see it, this whole place is getting out of hand. especially when moderators act like spoiled little kids. I honestly don’t think I will be spending much if any more time here. (not that anyone cares) see ya folks, the battery in my k7 needs charging and my Leica M3 is calling! Atta boy!

09-27-2010, 08:11 PM	#22
GoneToTheDogs Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 148	Your photo of the cat on top of the fence with the menacing dog underneath was priceless! Very cool! What limited lens was used for this shot? -Matt

09-27-2010, 10:21 PM	#24
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	I also find that lobbing in a unicorn picture every now and then distracts them - if only momentarily. I'm hoping that some start to realize that the unicorn stands for magic, purity, and "this thread has gotten so ridiculous and infantile that there's a unicorn in it."

09-27-2010, 10:44 PM	#25
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Nah, I'm done with unicorns. But how about a light-hearted pic for all those office workers out there: Days at work:

09-28-2010, 03:43 AM	#26
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	Originally posted by Rottie*Lover Your photo of the cat on top of the fence with the menacing dog underneath was priceless! Very cool! What limited lens was used for this shot? -Matt That cat is more menacing than the dog. She injured our cat quite badly with some bites that got infected, hence Rufus (the dog) is fairly aggressive with this particular visitor. Since I raised the grass bed by a foot or so over the summer we have not seen that cat on our fence I used a 43 & K20D @ ISO800 if I remember correctly. Pure grab shot!

09-28-2010, 09:16 AM	#27
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	I don't even look much in the Rumors section much anymore. It's silly. Pentax has said repeatedly that there is no FF camera coming but the stupid speculation goes on forever and ever. Lately, it's been whining about the new 35/2.4 lens. It isn't fast enough. Nothing about IQ or whether they need a lens that fast. Some people just want specs they can mouth off about but never use. I can honestly say that over half of the fancy features my now obsolete K10D has have never been used and never will be used.

09-28-2010, 11:40 AM	#28
the swede Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,310 Original Poster	Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden But to sum up this ranting: Increasing bitching is bad enough, but increasing bitching while things in reality looks better for Pentax than in a long time is just absurd. +1 Somewhere i understand that people get angry when lenses stop being made. Like the rumor that FA Limited would be discontinued. People need to get over it and look forward. There is always a chance of getting lenses on the aftermarket. And the FA Limiteds will probably be on the market for a very long time, because they were/are so popular and exist in rather large amounts. What do we have today? We have a great DA Limited line!!! They are small, extremly well built, great optical performance and created for the digital sensor. And what the other brands simply DO NOT HAVE. They should be celebrated more i think. Originally posted by reeftool I don't even look much in the Rumors section much anymore. It's silly. Pentax has said repeatedly that there is no FF camera coming but the stupid speculation goes on forever and ever. Lately, it's been whining about the new 35/2.4 lens. It isn't fast enough. Nothing about IQ or whether they need a lens that fast. Some people just want specs they can mouth off about but never use. I can honestly say that over half of the fancy features my now obsolete K10D has have never been used and never will be used. +1 its silly.....the 35/2,4 is great! We have seen it from snap shots, wait until they get out in the nature/streets etc etc. It IS a great lens!

09-28-2010, 11:53 AM	#29
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	I do agree that the FF moaning is really getting tiresome....so I just don't read it. Others should do the same. If some people feel the need to make their desires known, then so be it. I have my FF Pentax--5 of them. If I decide they need to be digital, I know where Canon and Nikon are sold as well. Right now, it is not even on the radar. By the way, I just ripped through >10,000 actuations on my K-x after 6 months. It took more than twice that long to get there on my K20d. Pentax knows how to make a new camera model that gets me out taking photos.

09-28-2010, 12:08 PM	#30
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	I think Falk's "open letter to pentax thread" was the beginning of the downfall of the news and rumors section. It got mod bumped to general talk and the FF mongers got up in arms about that. After hissy fit, stomping their feet, and holding their breath until they were blue in the face, the thread was moved back to N&R. Since then civilized discussion has been drowned out by the group whine sessions. I still read there but it is painful and isn't even worth posting in most of the time.