The bitchin and moaning has gone to far !

r0ckstarr · 10-03-2010, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Ash

+1, man!

Fail. 1 is not the median.

**Ash** · 10-03-2010, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by r0ckstarr

Fail. 1 is not the median.

But it could be the mode.

That's good enough for me.
Time to close this thread now?

extravagrant · 10-04-2010, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Parallax

I believe you are confusing median with mean. The arithmetic median is the midpoint in a string of numbers, not an average. (if there are an even number of values in the string, the median is the average of the middle two).
In the string 1 2 3 3 3 4 5 8 8 9 22, 4 is the median. (Equal number of values above and below that)
The average (or mean) of the string is 6.182 (rounded to 3 decimals.)

Citation

Citation

Citation

EDIT: In my initial assertion, I stated that half would be below the median and this is not quite correct. There will be equal numbers above and below the median. They can be fewer than half, as some may be at the median. (As in the string 1, 2,2,2, and 3)

I assure you, I do not need a math lesson. "The average" is not a well-defined mathematical term. Generally when people refer to "the" average, they mean the arithmetic mean, but all "average" means to a mathematician is a measure of central tendency, which could be the arithmetic mean, the harmonic mean, the median, the mode, the midrange, etc.

**robbiec** · 10-04-2010, 09:46 AM

Right I think we can allow bitchin and moaning when mathematics takes over a thread.

Parallax · 10-04-2010, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by extravagrant

I assure you, I do not need a math lesson. "The average" is not a well-defined mathematical term. Generally when people refer to "the" average, they mean the arithmetic mean, but all "average" means to a mathematician is a measure of central tendency, which could be the arithmetic mean, the harmonic mean, the median, the mode, the midrange, etc.

I wasn't challenging in any way your definition of average. Yes, it can mean many things. I do not have a math degree, and could probably benefit from math lessons, so I really am not qualified to argue the subject with you at all.
It is the definition of median that I am having a little trouble with here. What I find perplexing is that all of the definitions/explanations of median that I have found all agree with each other; but none seem to coincide with yours.

Oh well.

extravagrant · 10-04-2010, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Parallax

I wasn't challenging in any way your definition of average. Yes, it can mean many things. I do not have a math degree, and could probably benefit from math lessons, so I really am not qualified to argue the subject with you at all.
It is the definition of median that I am having a little trouble with here. What I find perplexing is that all of the definitions/explanations of median that I have found all agree with each other; but none seem to coincide with yours. :confused2:
Oh well.

After your fix, I don't see how my comments contradict your definition of median. I think we're on the same page now.

I propose that the title of this thread be changed to "The bitching and mathematics have gone too far"

Parallax · 10-04-2010, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by extravagrant

..............

I propose that the title of this thread be changed to "The bitching and mathematics have gone too far"

Parallax · 10-04-2010, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Ash

.
What's this thread about again?

Looks like it's about 5 pages.
ba-boom, chhhhh.

the swede · 10-04-2010, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

I want to start a new thread, "The bitching and moaning about the bitching and moaning has gone too far!"

Who's with me?

Can i join! I'll stand in line....

Originally posted by Ash

You guys are crazy!

What's this thread about again?

It about me actually.... cant belive everyone else comes in here and steals the attention.... its about me me me me me

No.... its about me getting sick of all the moaning and complaining about..... bah.... you know.....

Seems they're at it again now.... The never ending "buhuhuuu, Pentax wont give me an FF, so i'll start a thread about how they could make an FF at a cheap price"

Imagine if Pentax made a FF with a couple of nice lenses. Good for them then. It would probably compete in price with the others. But would that be the end of "bitchin and moaning"? Would people be happy?

No way!

It would actually be the same as now.... or probably worse. Because they would bash at Pentax for not making it as good as Canikon does, for not making the specs the same or better than canikon, and for everything in between.

Just go out and get your self an FF if you really need it. If you really need it, then you can afford it. If you can afford it, you are not one of those complaining are you

Blue · 10-04-2010, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by extravagrant

I assure you, I do not need a math lesson. "The average" is not a well-defined mathematical term. Generally when people refer to "the" average, they mean the arithmetic mean, but all "average" means to a mathematician is a measure of central tendency, which could be the arithmetic mean, the harmonic mean, the median, the mode, the midrange, etc.

I guess there is a reason why statisticians and mathematicians don't drink together without getting into fights. These things are defined in statistics. Statisticians don't use average in reference to "median" and "mode." One rule of thumb regarding the measures of central tendency is that when they are roughly equal, it suggests a normal distribution of the sample. However, it is possible for count data to fit the test for normalcy even though they may have been taken from a non-normal population. That said, non-parametric data (i.e. non-normal) have means. What I'm getting at, is that if Pentaxians fail the normalcy test which is likely, the data set could still fit a bell curve.

Enough of this. It is starting to sound like the office. I argue about this crap at work enough as it is.

Parallax · 10-04-2010, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Blue

I guess there is a reason why statisticians and mathematicians don't drink together without getting into fights. These things are defined in statistics. Statisticians don't use average in reference to "median" and "mode." One rule of thumb regarding the measures of central tendency is that when they are roughly equal, it suggests a normal distribution of the sample. However, it is possible for count data to fit the test for normalcy even though they may have been taken from a non-normal population. That said, non-parametric data (i.e. non-normal) still have means. What I'm getting at, if Pentaxians are fail the normalcy test which is likely, the data set could still fit a bell curve.

NOW, I really have a headache!

Ratmagiclady · 10-04-2010, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by robbiec

Right I think we can allow bitchin and moaning when mathematics takes over a thread.

This is like meta-bitching-and-moaning sub prime squared.

extravagrant · 10-04-2010, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Blue

I guess there is a reason why statisticians and mathematicians don't drink together without getting into fights.

Because the statisticians are jealous of the mathematicians being correct*, and the mathematicians are jealous of the statisticians for getting paid

*feel free to replace with "pedantic", if you must

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 10-04-2010, 06:12 PM

First time I've seen math take over a thread, and I sort of started it

If you kids don't stop bitching about statistics, I'll hit you in your heads with my physics Ph.D. degree!

Blue · 10-04-2010, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

First time I've seen math take over a thread, and I sort of started it

If you kids don't stop bitching about statistics, I'll hit you in your heads with my physics Ph.D. degree!

What kind of insects should I ship Douglas. Its too cold there for killer bees. Maybe bedbugs . . .

10-04-2010, 02:04 PM	#70
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by extravagrant I assure you, I do not need a math lesson. "The average" is not a well-defined mathematical term. Generally when people refer to "the" average, they mean the arithmetic mean, but all "average" means to a mathematician is a measure of central tendency, which could be the arithmetic mean, the harmonic mean, the median, the mode, the midrange, etc. I guess there is a reason why statisticians and mathematicians don't drink together without getting into fights. These things are defined in statistics. Statisticians don't use average in reference to "median" and "mode." One rule of thumb regarding the measures of central tendency is that when they are roughly equal, it suggests a normal distribution of the sample. However, it is possible for count data to fit the test for normalcy even though they may have been taken from a non-normal population. That said, non-parametric data (i.e. non-normal) have means. What I'm getting at, is that if Pentaxians fail the normalcy test which is likely, the data set could still fit a bell curve. Enough of this. It is starting to sound like the office. I argue about this crap at work enough as it is. Last edited by Blue; 10-04-2010 at 02:59 PM. Reason: typo

10-03-2010, 10:36 PM	#61
r0ckstarr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,507	Originally posted by Ash +1, man! Fail. 1 is not the median.

10-03-2010, 11:11 PM	#62
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by r0ckstarr Fail. 1 is not the median. But it could be the mode. That's good enough for me. Time to close this thread now?

10-04-2010, 09:39 AM	#63
extravagrant Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Chicago Photos: Gallery Posts: 121	Originally posted by Parallax I believe you are confusing median with mean. The arithmetic median is the midpoint in a string of numbers, not an average. (if there are an even number of values in the string, the median is the average of the middle two). In the string 1 2 3 3 3 4 5 8 8 9 22, 4 is the median. (Equal number of values above and below that) The average (or mean) of the string is 6.182 (rounded to 3 decimals.) Citation Citation Citation EDIT: In my initial assertion, I stated that half would be below the median and this is not quite correct. There will be equal numbers above and below the median. They can be fewer than half, as some may be at the median. (As in the string 1, 2,2,2, and 3) I assure you, I do not need a math lesson. "The average" is not a well-defined mathematical term. Generally when people refer to "the" average, they mean the arithmetic mean, but all "average" means to a mathematician is a measure of central tendency, which could be the arithmetic mean, the harmonic mean, the median, the mode, the midrange, etc.

10-04-2010, 09:46 AM	#64
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	Right I think we can allow bitchin and moaning when mathematics takes over a thread.

10-04-2010, 10:23 AM	#65
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by extravagrant I assure you, I do not need a math lesson. "The average" is not a well-defined mathematical term. Generally when people refer to "the" average, they mean the arithmetic mean, but all "average" means to a mathematician is a measure of central tendency, which could be the arithmetic mean, the harmonic mean, the median, the mode, the midrange, etc. I wasn't challenging in any way your definition of average. Yes, it can mean many things. I do not have a math degree, and could probably benefit from math lessons, so I really am not qualified to argue the subject with you at all. It is the definition of median that I am having a little trouble with here. What I find perplexing is that all of the definitions/explanations of median that I have found all agree with each other; but none seem to coincide with yours. Oh well.

10-04-2010, 10:39 AM	#66
extravagrant Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Chicago Photos: Gallery Posts: 121	Originally posted by Parallax I wasn't challenging in any way your definition of average. Yes, it can mean many things. I do not have a math degree, and could probably benefit from math lessons, so I really am not qualified to argue the subject with you at all. It is the definition of median that I am having a little trouble with here. What I find perplexing is that all of the definitions/explanations of median that I have found all agree with each other; but none seem to coincide with yours. :confused2: Oh well. After your fix, I don't see how my comments contradict your definition of median. I think we're on the same page now. I propose that the title of this thread be changed to "The bitching and mathematics have gone too far"

10-04-2010, 10:42 AM	#67
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by extravagrant .............. I propose that the title of this thread be changed to "The bitching and mathematics have gone too far"

10-04-2010, 10:52 AM	#68
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Ash . What's this thread about again? Looks like it's about 5 pages. ba-boom, chhhhh.

10-04-2010, 12:17 PM	#69
the swede Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,310 Original Poster	Originally posted by johnmflores I want to start a new thread, "The bitching and moaning about the bitching and moaning has gone too far!" Who's with me? Can i join! I'll stand in line.... Originally posted by Ash You guys are crazy! What's this thread about again? It about me actually.... cant belive everyone else comes in here and steals the attention.... its about me me me me me No.... its about me getting sick of all the moaning and complaining about..... bah.... you know..... Seems they're at it again now.... The never ending "buhuhuuu, Pentax wont give me an FF, so i'll start a thread about how they could make an FF at a cheap price" Imagine if Pentax made a FF with a couple of nice lenses. Good for them then. It would probably compete in price with the others. But would that be the end of "bitchin and moaning"? Would people be happy? No way! It would actually be the same as now.... or probably worse. Because they would bash at Pentax for not making it as good as Canikon does, for not making the specs the same or better than canikon, and for everything in between. Just go out and get your self an FF if you really need it. If you really need it, then you can afford it. If you can afford it, you are not one of those complaining are you

10-04-2010, 02:16 PM	#71
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Blue I guess there is a reason why statisticians and mathematicians don't drink together without getting into fights. These things are defined in statistics. Statisticians don't use average in reference to "median" and "mode." One rule of thumb regarding the measures of central tendency is that when they are roughly equal, it suggests a normal distribution of the sample. However, it is possible for count data to fit the test for normalcy even though they may have been taken from a non-normal population. That said, non-parametric data (i.e. non-normal) still have means. What I'm getting at, if Pentaxians are fail the normalcy test which is likely, the data set could still fit a bell curve. NOW, I really have a headache!

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10-04-2010, 02:22 PM	#72
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by robbiec Right I think we can allow bitchin and moaning when mathematics takes over a thread. This is like meta-bitching-and-moaning sub prime squared.

10-04-2010, 05:09 PM	#73
extravagrant Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Chicago Photos: Gallery Posts: 121	Originally posted by Blue I guess there is a reason why statisticians and mathematicians don't drink together without getting into fights. Because the statisticians are jealous of the mathematicians being correct, and the mathematicians are jealous of the statisticians for getting paid feel free to replace with "pedantic", if you must

10-04-2010, 06:12 PM	#74
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	First time I've seen math take over a thread, and I sort of started it If you kids don't stop bitching about statistics, I'll hit you in your heads with my physics Ph.D. degree!

10-04-2010, 08:18 PM	#75
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden First time I've seen math take over a thread, and I sort of started it If you kids don't stop bitching about statistics, I'll hit you in your heads with my physics Ph.D. degree! What kind of insects should I ship Douglas. Its too cold there for killer bees. Maybe bedbugs . . .